smergy Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 Just picked up a new '10 (F) today and retired the 1000RR to track only. After searching around, I'm still a little unclear about 2 things: 1.) Is using a z-bomb the same as soldering 1st, 2nd and 3rd gear for the gear position sensor together? 2.) In the off season I'll put a bazzaz fuel controller in, is the z-bomb still required? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer crazybrother Posted April 13, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted April 13, 2014 Don't bother with the Z-bomb... Read this post. http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php/topic/77583-who-is-interested-in-getting-your-vfr-1200-ecu-flashed/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smergy Posted April 13, 2014 Author Share Posted April 13, 2014 looking into it, thanks, interested in seeing the dyno charts for this and if there is actually a difference between this and z-bomb. Unless you can access the maps though I don't see how you could do a slip on, cat delete, air filter, etc. safely without a fuel controller. The question is, is this really more power delivery than a z-bomb and remap? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volfy Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 Just picked up a new '10 (F) today and retired the 1000RR to track only. After searching around, I'm still a little unclear about 2 things: 1.) Is using a z-bomb the same as soldering 1st, 2nd and 3rd gear for the gear position sensor together? 2.) In the off season I'll put a bazzaz fuel controller in, is the z-bomb still required? 1. Yes. It's commonly referred to as a timing retard eliminator. Main advantage of a commercial unit is that it's easily removal. You can build your ow if you buy the oem connectors. I sorta remember the P/Ns posted by somebody in one of the forums. 2. I'm pretty sure that's the case. No amount of fueling changes can over come the timing retard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 I pulled my Z-Bomb....if anyone's looking for one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dynajohn Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 looking into it, thanks, interested in seeing the dyno charts for this and if there is actually a difference between this and z-bomb. Unless you can access the maps though I don't see how you could do a slip on, cat delete, air filter, etc. safely without a fuel controller. The question is, is this really more power delivery than a z-bomb and remap? We don't know yet smergy. The re-flash from Guhl Motors that is out for testing now (Brian F on this site) is on a DCT model which cannot be dyno tested effectively because of a ECU limitation not currently addressed in this Guhl version 1 re-flash. This VFR 1200DCT is a stock bike other than the ECU re-flash. This is the first successful re-flash we are aware of for a VFR 1200DCT or F model. There have been some reports from Europe about re-flashes by other company's on the VFR 1200 that turned out disastrously. There is very little in performance parts available for the VFR 1200 because of the limited number sold and a lack of enough demand from the VFR community. The first re-flash's from Don Guhl are currently to remove the stock ECU's limitations on power and does not affect the stock fuel maps. The limitations being removed for the DCT & F model VFR 1200 are the limits on 1st & 2nd gear power (these limits are in restrictions on how far open the TB's are allowed to open in 1st & 2nd gear). The top speed limiter (which is 148 MPH stock) is removed. This speed limiter is also done in the stock ECU by limiting TB opening when the MPH limit is reached. Increasing the rev limiter to 11,000 RPM from 10,500 RPM's is also being done in Don Guhl's version 1 re-flash. Don Guhl's shop is capable of re-mapping the stock ECU fuel and ignition maps as well as the TBW but he has to have a VFR 1200 on his dyno to develop custom fuel, ignition & TBW maps for a re-flash. My 2013 F model ECU is also being re-flashed as part of the field test for this Guhl version 1 re-flash. My results may be of more interest to you because the F model can be fully dyno tested and mine will be. My bike is de-catted, has a Leo Vinci slip on, a K&N air filter, a power commander 5, a power commander quick shifter, a Bazzaz z-bomb and has been dyno tested with these mods and the stock ECU. My bike made 158 RWHP and 92 ft/lbs TQ with these mods. I then ported and milled the heads and the power increased to just under 168 RWHP and 94 ft/lbs TQ. This is with a stock ECU. Personally I am satisfied with the flexibility the Power Commander gives me to re-tune for whatever changes I make to the motor. I am interested in the re-flash first to remove the top speed limiter, second to increase the RPM limiter and last to get rid of the ECU limit on 1st & 2nd gear, remove the Bazzaz z-bomb and get back a functional gear indicator for 1st & 2nd gear. Any additional power I get from Don's gen 1 ECU re-flash will be a bonus. Concerning the Bazzaz z-bomb, it works and is a cheap plug in work around for a serious power limit programmed in the stock VFR 1200 ECU for 1st & 2nd gear. The power limiter is worse on the 2010 & 2011 models. It is somewhat less restrictive but still there on the 2012 & 2013 models with traction control. There is plenty of information on this site including a dyno chart from Bazzaz showing the effect of installing the Z-bomb on a 2010 F model. I also posted a dyno chart showing the restriction on my 2013 F model. We will see if Don Guhl's removal of the 1st & 2nd gear ECU restriction makes more power & TQ than the Z-bomb which simply makes the bike think it is in 3rd gear instead of 1st or 2nd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lshark Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 i have a 2010 manual which is already remapped with the Bazzaz Z-fi along with an Akro slip on and K&N.....would love to get my gear indicator back but don't really know how much more i would get for my money considering that my bike runs great now...will i need to remap the z-fi since the Bazzaz map was made with a z-bomb equipped bike...is it worth $375 to replace the $65 part that is doing just fine...maybe there will be an advantage to running actual first and second gear maps instead of the 3rd gear map via the z bomb ??...i want to do the re flash....and i am just a tankful away from Don's shop...if they need a modded 2010 manual to test Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianF Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 i have a 2010 manual which is already remapped with the Bazzaz Z-fi along with an Akro slip on and K&N.....would love to get my gear indicator back but don't really know how much more i would get for my money considering that my bike runs great now...will i need to remap the z-fi since the Bazzaz map was made with a z-bomb equipped bike...is it worth $375 to replace the $65 part that is doing just fine...maybe there will be an advantage to running actual first and second gear maps instead of the 3rd gear map via the z bomb ??...i want to do the re flash....and i am just a tankful away from Don's shop...if they need a modded 2010 manual to test I can't answer most of your questions, but I can answer one: as the "gen 1" re-flash is currently, all maps are the same for all gears (at least for the DCT). It was essentially a copy-and-paste of code. That said (and I'm hesitant to even suggest this so as not to speak for him), Don has been very kind to all of us who have been involved in the development of the re-flash. If you take yours to his dyno, I'm thinking he may work out a bit of a deal for you. Just a possibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dynajohn Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 i have a 2010 manual which is already remapped with the Bazzaz Z-fi along with an Akro slip on and K&N.....would love to get my gear indicator back but don't really know how much more i would get for my money considering that my bike runs great now...will i need to remap the z-fi since the Bazzaz map was made with a z-bomb equipped bike...is it worth $375 to replace the $65 part that is doing just fine...maybe there will be an advantage to running actual first and second gear maps instead of the 3rd gear map via the z bomb ??...i want to do the re flash....and i am just a tankful away from Don's shop...if they need a modded 2010 manual to test I can't answer most of your questions, but I can answer one: as the "gen 1" re-flash is currently, all maps are the same for all gears (at least for the DCT). It was essentially a copy-and-paste of code. That said (and I'm hesitant to even suggest this so as not to speak for him), Don has been very kind to all of us who have been involved in the development of the re-flash. If you take yours to his dyno, I'm thinking he may work out a bit of a deal for you. Just a possibility. Interesting point about the gear maps Brian. I remember Don telling me early on that the ECU had seven maps. One for each gear and the seventh for neutral. When I had my power commander tuned the last time I asked Chad Wells if we could look at doing individual gear maps because the power commander has that capability. His answer was no because the power commander for the VFR1200 did not pick up gear position on this bike. He said we would have to add the feature by using a gear indicator interface to the power commander. Ishark I am sort of in the same position as you. If all I wanted was to have my gear position indicator back and the 1st & 2nd gear restriction removed then it would not be worth $375 as opposed to the $65 zbomb. If however you want the other power restrictions removed from 5th & 6th gears as well as 1st & 2nd gear it is worth it to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hvrnaut Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 I pulled my Z-Bomb....if anyone's looking for one. I'm curious as to why you pulled the z-bomb. I am running one, as well, and I think it does what it says it will. The lack of gear indicator does drive me crazy. I know it should, but it does. lol ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 I pulled my Z-Bomb....if anyone's looking for one. I'm curious as to why you pulled the z-bomb. I am running one, as well, and I think it does what it says it will. The lack of gear indicator does drive me crazy. I know it should, but it does. lol ! You have a 2010....I have a 2012 I've put a lot of miles on this bike with and without it - I'm hard pressed to tell a difference. Gear position indicators are superfluous to me....I know what gear I'm in by feel and that display could go blank without me caring. I would really like to ride a bone stock 2010 though - from all the anecdotal input, it must be a very different kettle of fish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smergy Posted April 16, 2014 Author Share Posted April 16, 2014 Thanks a ton for all of the info guys. Competition Werks slip on on the way + K&N air filter, will do a cat delete this winter. The reflash is definitely interesting and I'd love to see some dyno results once they are up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hvrnaut Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 Guys, Bikes gone...my Z-Bomb is in the classifieds for a song! Regards! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer crazybrother Posted May 2, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted May 2, 2014 Well.... Just got home from doing 200 miles on the "New and Improved" 2010 VFR1200, and I mean it. The restrictions are all gone, throttle response is perfect with no lag at all, and not violent either. 1st and 2nd gears are what they should have been all along No error codes (servo removed). Transitions between gears and throttle position is smooth as a .... And boy does this thing corner nicely now, with no hiccups when going on/off the throttle. Also the fuel map that Don put in there gets rid of the stumble between 3k-5k with the throttle 10%-30%. The only thing I was not able to test was the top speed limiter... Not enough road. I'll report back when I get the Dyno run done on May 12th. I would definitely get this done if I was anyone who is on the fence. And Don also told me that the fuel map is the same for the DCT version, So contact Don and send it in. My bike is stock except, DAM exhaust, and PAIR system removed. Stock air filter. Stock header with CAT. If you call the shop and the voicemail picks up, just call back. Guhl Motors 717-618-4212 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fasty Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 i can locate the connectors on my bike but they are stuck behind the frame can someone tell me how i can get easy acces to them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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