Stucky Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 For those of you who don't know me (everybody), I'm a 5th year senior at Purdue studying Electrical Engineering. Every senior in ECE must complete a senior design project and I have been lucky enough to convince my teammates into developing an electric motorcycle. I spent my holidays searching for a super cheap/free rolling chassis. I was looking for a frame that was almost 100% mechanically sound. This was because our entire team is comprised of EE's, and we don't really have time to rebuild/refurbish an old bike. I posted up a request for any available chassis here on VFRD. Seb and JamieDaughtry were kind enough to both offer me their VF500F chassis's they had lying around. However, I ended up finding an 86' VF500F locally and paid a mere $100 for it. It was in decent enough shape, but I did have to replace the steering head bearings (with some nice AllBalls tapered bearings). The project's focus is to design the controller for the bike. We will buy a micro controller and the necessary hardware. What sort of hardware we throw into this frame is completely dependent on cash. We are desperately trying to get companies to sponsor us, but everyone is aware of the economic times. Anyway, the project is just getting started and there is a lot of work to do. I figured I'd post up some pictures of the project's progress periodically over the next 5 months. So I'll throw the offer out there now: If anyone wants to trek over to West Lafayette come early May, then free electric VF500F rides for all! Also, in the next few weeks we should have a website up and I'll post that link. There will also be some random parts I'll throw up in the Pay It Forward forum. Mike Here is the bike as I got it (sans seat and tail bodywork). I need to find a picture of it rebuilt after I cleaned the whole thing... Mass of parts after the first tear down Very nice AllBalls tapered roller bearings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest vfrrider Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Search for evfr. Frodus should be along any second. Also, go to emoto.net. Your biggest issue will PROBABLY be battery capacity with such a small bike. if all it has to do is run, your OK. Larry VFRrider Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baileyrock Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Hi Mike, looks like a fun project for sure. Like Larry mentioned VFRD member Frodus has already built, tested, showed and might even race and electric VFR. There was a full thread that showed most steps and results of each along with videos, pics and such, but I can NOT find that thread anymore!!! :huh: That would suck if it's gone! Good luck and congrats! OH here it is! http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.p...c=40067&hl= Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stucky Posted January 13, 2009 Author Share Posted January 13, 2009 Thanks for the link BR. Man how did I miss that post over the summer? I guess I was studying too hard... As far as battery capacity goes, yeah that is totally secondary. The main focus of this project is designing/programming/building a controller for the whole thing. Besides, with the cash we have, we might have to take our batteries out of our cars for temporary use (only half way joking)! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baileyrock Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 Well keep us fully informed of your progress please! :biggrin: btw that VFR looked to be in decent shape for $100. :fing02: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WERA910 Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 Hail Purdue!!!!!!!!!! Cool project! What kind of controller are we talking about? Some kind of made from scratch deal, or a plc of some sort programmed with the inputs and outputs? I'm assuming that pansey waisted EE students would build it from scratch?? (MET here :biggrin: ) I don't have much to offer... except, if you need any flexible PU foam, drop me a PM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frodus Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 Search for evfr.Frodus should be along any second. Also, go to emoto.net. Larry VFRrider How'd you know I'm never far from any of the EV threads on here the site is elmoto.net thats where all us electric guys hang out, read through the archives. Also, my website is www.evfr.net and it documents my entire build. I work for a controller company, so I might be able to help with some of your questions. We're working on releasing our DC controller, and working on our AC controller. Here are the big questions: What kind of range do you need? How fast do you want it? Are you retaining your transmission, or going with just a sprocket and chain? AC or DC motor(AC controllers are complex)? Do you NEED regen (max 15% back, maybe lower on a motorcycle, but is nice for engine downshift feel)? Controllers with regen are more complicated. Whats the budget? Do you want to go with LiFePo4? or Lead (I might be able to sell you a whole set of my brand new lead batteries and ship from a business..... since I might be going lithium) I've got 13 12V 28Ah batteries that'd be great to test with that I could let go for 40bucks a piece plus shipping.... but you'd save alot... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stucky Posted January 13, 2009 Author Share Posted January 13, 2009 [snip] btw that VFR looked to be in decent shape for $100. :blush: Yeah I could probably part it out and make double. The frame is slightly bent in one section and it did not come with a motor or title. Luckily this project doesn't require it to have a title. Hail Purdue!!!!!!!!!!Cool project! What kind of controller are we talking about? Some kind of made from scratch deal, or a plc of some sort programmed with the inputs and outputs? I'm assuming that pansey waisted EE students would build it from scratch?? (MET here :huh: ) I don't have much to offer... except, if you need any flexible PU foam, drop me a PM. Thanks for the offer anyway... we will need all the help we can get. I'm not sure what sort of micro we will end up going with. We will probably get something from Freescale. We will then design a control pcb and a motor pcb. We'll mount the micro and all the associated input circuitry on one board. The other board will be used for the H-bridge & associated motor control circuitry. (Pansies? pppfffffffttt, :blush: ) [snip]I've got 13 12V 28Ah batteries that'd be great to test with that I could let go for 40bucks a piece plus shipping.... but you'd save alot... Yeah I checked out your website the other night Frodus. I am really impressed on how clean your install was. I wish the VF500F had bodywork to hide all those batteries. Also, I'll have to get back to you about your offer. I'll shoot you a PM and a huge thanks! I have had some wonderful offers from VFRD members, and you all are truly a stand up group of people. The focus of this project is designing the controller. Also since I don't have a title for the frame, it doesn't make a lot of sense to pour money into this. Maybe later on we could gut the components and install them in a registerable frame, but that is out of sight and out of mind for the time being. Alot of our decisions on components are based on cash, instead of performance. What kind of range do you need? Whatever we can get really. Would be nice to get 30 miles. How fast do you want it?Again, however fast we can get. Would be nice to hit 45mph or 50mph. Are you retaining your transmission, or going with just a sprocket and chain? Direct drive using sprocket & chain. For the same reasons you mentioned in your thread (efficiency & complexity). AC or DC motor(AC controllers are complex)?We will take anything a sponsor will provide. However if it was up to me, then we'd be using a brushless DC motor. That way we could use the hall effect sensors to obtain maximum torque at (almost) any rpm. We'll probably end up using a PM brushed DC motor though (ETEK maybe). Do you NEED regen (max 15% back, maybe lower on a motorcycle, but is nice for engine downshift feel)? Controllers with regen are more complicated.Not worried about regen. Simply don't have the time or resources for the added complexity. Whats the budget?Myself and 3 teammates are all contribuiting $250 for a total of $1k. Anything above that we will either have to start bootstrapping or find sponsors. There might be a Xbox360 up for sale real soon :laugh:. Do you want to go with LiFePo4? or Lead (I might be able to sell you a whole set of my brand new lead batteries and ship from a business..... since I might be going lithium)It would be awesome to get some lighter batteries. However we are under an extremely tight budget due to our self funding. If one of the many sponsors I have emailed wanted to donate a handful I certainly wouldn't turn them down. However we will probably end up with cheap, heavy, lead-acid car batteries. Thanks for the input everybody! I'll keep you all posted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baileyrock Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 Also since I don't have a title for the frame, it doesn't make a lot of sense to pour money into this. Maybe later on we could gut the components and install them in a registerable frame As long as the VIN. # doesn't come up as stolen, most States will let you apply for a Home Built or Custom Title and either re-stamp the frame or let you use the current Vin.. Worth looking into in the future and to also know your not wasting time or money with this frame/bike work. :laugh: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEBSPEED Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 You can get a title for $150-175 from a titling service if the vehicle is of a certain vintage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stucky Posted January 13, 2009 Author Share Posted January 13, 2009 Good to know! Thanks for the tip BR and Seb. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frodus Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 Yeah I checked out your website the other night Frodus. I am really impressed on how clean your install was. I wish the VF500F had bodywork to hide all those batteries. Also, I'll have to get back to you about your offer. I'll shoot you a PM and a huge thanks! I have had some wonderful offers from VFRD members, and you all are truly a stand up group of people. Thanks for the feedback... we worked hard on it. Its still in progress (switching batteries/working on charging). Check out evalbum, there's a few other VF's there. As far as bodywork, some places still have the front lower (was an option).... harder to find, keep an eye on ebay. What kind of range do you need? Whatever we can get really. Would be nice to get 30 miles. 20-30 miles is very reasonable. How fast do you want it?Again, however fast we can get. Would be nice to hit 45mph or 50mph. Absolutely reasonable Are you retaining your transmission, or going with just a sprocket and chain? Direct drive using sprocket & chain. For the same reasons you mentioned in your thread (efficiency & complexity). Great choice. AC or DC motor(AC controllers are complex)?We will take anything a sponsor will provide. However if it was up to me, then we'd be using a brushless DC motor. That way we could use the hall effect sensors to obtain maximum torque at (almost) any rpm. We'll probably end up using a PM brushed DC motor though (ETEK maybe). PM is a good start, and fairly easy to control. AC and sepex are more complex... and series wound have some issues with runaway due to back-emf. Do you NEED regen (max 15% back, maybe lower on a motorcycle, but is nice for engine downshift feel)? Controllers with regen are more complicated.Not worried about regen. Simply don't have the time or resources for the added complexity. Much more simple Whats the budget?Myself and 3 teammates are all contribuiting $250 for a total of $1k. Anything above that we will either have to start bootstrapping or find sponsors. There might be a Xbox360 up for sale real soon :dry:. Reasonably easy to do now that you've got a donor and are making the controller... the big cost is batteries and a motor. I've got some stuff I might be able to donate. Do you want to go with LiFePo4? or Lead (I might be able to sell you a whole set of my brand new lead batteries and ship from a business..... since I might be going lithium)It would be awesome to get some lighter batteries. However we are under an extremely tight budget due to our self funding. If one of the many sponsors I have emailed wanted to donate a handful I certainly wouldn't turn them down. However we will probably end up with cheap, heavy, lead-acid car batteries. Just let me know... I might go lifepo if we can get our TTXGP batteries for cheap enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stucky Posted January 14, 2009 Author Share Posted January 14, 2009 Yeah I emailed LiFeBatt about sponsoring our meager university project. They said they were all wrapped up, sponsorship wise, in the TTXGP. LiFeBATT is completely sponsoring an entry in the TTXGP. Plus they are providing cells to another 5 entries in the race at this time. So are you for sure competing? If so best of luck! Take lots of pictuers & video. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frodus Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 Yeah I emailed LiFeBatt about sponsoring our meager university project. They said they were all wrapped up, sponsorship wise, in the TTXGP. LiFeBATT is completely sponsoring an entry in the TTXGP. Plus they are providing cells to another 5 entries in the race at this time.So are you for sure competing? If so best of luck! Take lots of pictuers & video. Mike Look into K2 (peakbattery.com) here in the states... also A123... Other vendors like Headway, Valence etc might be willing to help. Valence sounded interested in sponsoring people. We are FOR SURE racing we sent in our entry fee last week. Its on! Lifebatt is completely sponsoring an entry? Wonder if its my friend Steve (Jozzbikes.co.uk).... He built up the TTX01.... i wonder who else they're providing cells to.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baileyrock Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 Ran into this article on new DC controllers. http://www.drives.co.uk/fullstory.asp?id=2436 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frodus Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Go join elmoto.net and introduce yourself... there's plenty of guys there that can help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stucky Posted January 27, 2009 Author Share Posted January 27, 2009 Time for a quick update! At the moment the team and I are trying to pick out different components. Mainly what we are looking for are a microprocsessor, IGBT 6-Pack (to control our brushless dc motor), a tilt sensor, a LCD, and batteries. We have decided to monitor lean angle and display this information to the rider. The problem is that most, if not all, tilt sensors use gravity as a reference. You can imagine the error we are going to get when you are getting lateral g's going through a corner. We will have to look into that further. Good news is we have a motor! Bad news is we aren't sure if it will work. A professor was using this for some thermal testing, and as of now we know nothing about it; no model number, not datasheets... nothing. The only thing we know is that it is an eCycle brand motor. We are in the process of getting more info. I cannot seem to get this photo to rotate. That is it for now kids! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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