Battery? R/r? Something Else?

[2FAST4U]

I did a search and while I found some good threads, I didn't see any where the problem someone described was identical to mine.

Over the past couple weeks there were two instances in which my bike wouldn't start after I had just gotten through riding it. Anytime the bike was running, it ran flawlessly (i.e. no hesitation, the gauges weren't doing weird things, no loss of power, etc.) On both occasions I called roadside assistance, the guy jumped it, and my bike immediately fired up. Once fired up and running, it once again ran flawlessly.

Does it sound like my battery is a goner? It's a Yuasa YTZ12S that I bought on 5/31/07. I bought this particular battery because the guy at the dealership said it's the one I needed.

If it helps, I've always used my hi-beams exclusively (day or night.) However, up until a week or so ago, this problem had never happened. Also, after the first time, I stopped leaving the ignition on after I shut the bike off (I used to leave it on until the fan shut itself off.) After this problem happened a second time, I didn't know what to make of it.

Even though it only took the roadside assistance guys 30-40 minutes to show up, I still don't want to get stranded again. I also don't want my premiums going up because I'm using roadside assistance too much.

The cables are fine and are on there nice and tight. The wiring harness recall thing got done a while back.

Although I'm taking my bike in tomorrow to get checked out, I'd appreciate any advice beforehand.

Thanks!

[Rivcyko]

What happened when you tried to start it? How many times did you try to start it?

Since my relay went, I have an opinion on this. (Gee,... go figure).

The contacts to the relay may be fragged. The relay clicks, but not enough juice to turn it over. Add a jump, and you have enough amps to power through the corrosion, on the contacts.

.02

[Guest]

This sounds like exactly what my bike was doing. Does everything (electrical) go dead when you try to start the bike (when holding in the starter button) and come back to life when you release the starter button? If the battery is slighty low at the end of a ride, it is probably not charging correctly. My battery would get weeker the longer I rode. After short rides all would be fine, but after a longer ride (over an hour) the bike would not start again. Check the voltage on your battery at the end of a ride (before trying to start it).

Diagnosis (so far) ... R/R replaced. Seams O.K., but have not ridden any longer rides yet. Also believe I may have a short somewhere (hence the everything going dead when pressing the starter button thing), but have not located it yet.

[2FAST4U]

When I started the bike the first time that day, it fired up immediately. When I tried restarting it (when I'm ready to ride again), in both instances the battery had enough juice for the instrument cluster to go through its system check and to power the headlights. It also had enough juice to crank the engine, but not enough to turn it over. After a couple more tries, it wouldn't even crank at all (just the system check and power the lights.) I'd hear a clicking sound, though.

It'll probably be Thursday before I can get it to the dealership.

Thanks, everyone. I'm still open to more suggestions.

[FotoMoto]

Also, after the first time, I stopped leaving the ignition on after I shut the bike off (I used to leave it on until the fan shut itself off.)

You realize this is only cooling off the coolant in one rad. The other rad and, more importantly, the engine where the hottest temperatures are are getting no benefit from this. The amperage draw from the fan plus the headlight is tremendous drain on a non-running system. Combine that with short or infrequent rides and your charging system just can't keep up.

[Rivcyko]

It also had enough juice to crank the engine, but not enough to turn it over.

:unsure: Ummm. What?

Assuming the engine cranks, And you are gett'n spark, I would say you have a bum battery. Some new ones are bad.

[2FAST4U]

It also had enough juice to crank the engine, but not enough to turn it over.

:unsure: Ummm. What?

Assuming the engine cranks, And you are gett'n spark, I would say you have a bum battery. Some new ones are bad.

What I meant is the engine will crank, but slowly. It won't crank fast enough to get it started. I just found out the closest Honda dealership has a two week wait right now. I think I'm going to remove my battery and just take that to them. Knowing a battery check is a quick job, maybe they'll do it on the spot.

[Guest]

After they check the battery, if they tell you that it is good... Make sure the battery is fully charged before you ride again. Immediately after your next ride check the voltage of the battery. If it is below 12v you probably are having charging issues, and hence will probably need to replace the r/r.

[Rivcyko]

It also had enough juice to crank the engine, but not enough to turn it over.

:fing02: Ummm. What?

Assuming the engine cranks, And you are gett'n spark, I would say you have a bum battery. Some new ones are bad.

What I meant is the engine will crank, but slowly. It won't crank fast enough to get it started. I just found out the closest Honda dealership has a two week wait right now. I think I'm going to remove my battery and just take that to them. Knowing a battery check is a quick job, maybe they'll do it on the spot.

Think an auto zone or something could check it. May save you a hassled trip. Just a suggestion.

[InterceptME]

Hi Keystone,

Sounds similar to what happened to me last Saturday.

I was out on the BMW Motorcycle Club of Denver's "100,000 Foot" ride (a great tour!) with some friends. We left Denver about 7am, and headed to the mountains. We went over Squaw Pass, then Juniper Pass, then Loveland Pass, then down into Dillon... At about mile 107 of this trip, I'm stopped at a light and the bike (2000 VFR800) dies and will NOT restart.

:fing02:

So....Passing-by Harley guy stops to help me push the bike into the Wendy's parking lot (mostly not to miss the chance to disparage Japanese quality...but admits his Honda has problems too)... My friends discover I'm dropped off their radar and return to see what's up. When I try and start, I get no *click* of the starter relay, let alone any attempt for the starter motor to spin. All that happens is the instrument panel lights get a bit brighter. (This is because with the START button pressed, the headlights turn off, and the battery voltage goes up). We take the battery out of the VFR and over to a nearby Yamaha shop for a 90 minute charge. Now the bike is happy, starts right up, so I pull the headlight fuse and Pete and I do a non-stop run back to Denver. Measuring the battery then shows it is NOT getting a charge, but, it has enough juice to easily restart the VFR.

The battery is a Neverstart unit bought at Wal-Mart 5 months ago. At one point I thought I had R/R problems since a couple of times when I checked charging voltages it wasn't where it needed to be. Then several other times I measured it and all was good (14.5V @ 5000 RPM). So that was months ago and I thought all was in great shape! And near-daily commutes 20 miles each way showed no troubles at all.

BUT... and after researching these forums Saturday afternoon (whilst my other friends are enjoying the other 400 miles of Rocky Mountain touring... :pissed: ) it looks like the R/R unit can fail in ways that are only apparent after it gets hot. The R/R won't necessarily do a hard failure. So for my commuter runs, no problems. But, when I am doing nice clips up at 9,000 + feet for a few hours, the ol' R/R unit must be overheating. (The ambient temperatures were really pleasant, but at the R/R, at higher elevations, there's just not enough air to sufficiently cool things... Wish I would trade the VFR dashboard thermometer for a voltmeter !!!).

So I'll order a new R/R and install some sort of dash-mounted voltmeter ... And as one of my friends suggested, just carry along a spare, fully charged cheap battery!

Any thoughts on whether another Honda R/R unit or the Rick's unit is best?

Thanks,

Dave

[2FAST4U]

Thanks for everyone's help. I appreciate it more than you think.

Is there a way to test the R/R? If not (and the battery anc connections check out) I think I'll replace it outright.

According to RonAyers, the R/R is only $115 (I was expecting $200+). Should I get an aftermarket one or an OEM replacement from the dealership? I admit I haven't taken a good look at it, but based on the online schematic, it doesn't look difficult to replace. Before I begin, I simply need to disconnect the negative cable on the battery, right?

Travis- Let me know when you'll be in western Michigan. Maybe we can hook up for lunch one weekend.

[2FAST4U]

Okay, I took just the battery to an indie bike shop and was told there's nothing in the world wrong with it.

I described the problem to the guy and he said it sounds like the starter. He said something about when the bike is at normal operating temperature, the insulation in the starter breaks down and causes it to fail. This is why the bike starts just fine when it's been sitting awhile, but not when it's hot.

I then told him my bike has a history of rectifier problems and that people on the forum are pointing to it as the probable culprit. The guy went on to say that if it was the rectifier, the battery would not have shown the good charge it was showing. He also said that while my bike may have a history of rectifier problems, it's not what's wrong with my bike.

For a quick fix, I bought some motorcycle jumper cables for $15. However, I've got to deal with the real issue here. I'm not saying the guy at the shop is wrong, but although he's got a lot of experience working on bikes, he works on all makes and models (foreign and domestic.) I don't think he has a specialty. This forum, however, is loaded with VFR specialists. If you were me, would you swap the R/R and go from there? The price of a new starter is over $500 plus labor. I don't ever recall having read about 6th gen. VFR's having issues with the starter.

Thanks and please help!