No spark. No fuel prime. No FI light. help.

[Kobo]

I have a 2007 VFR800 that was given to me as a project. It was a great running bike but was laid down and no longer runs. The front end is toast but I have an idea for that. My main goal is to get the bike running again. 

The bike cranks over strong but I have no fuel prime, no spark, and no FI light. I suspected the ECU but have been told that is unlikely. All fuses are good and all connections have been checked as well. 

I am hopeful that someone with more experience with this platform can point me in the right direction. 

thanks, Kyle

[Grum]

Hi Kyle.

What a bloody mess! You could have all sorts of damaged wires and connector issues.

OK. So the obvious thought is your ECM is completely unpowered, this could be either Power Or Ground wise. The other issue is your Fi Light Not coming On, it should be On if the ECM is unpowered. Is the Instrument Panel or it's wiring damaged? The fact your bike cranks over, means your Main Fuse A 30amp power is good.

 

Do you have a wiring diagram And the Service Manual? Downloadable from this site? Hopefully the attached drawing will help.

 

With the status of your bike you're going to need to measure voltages and do continuity checks, just visually looking ain't good enough.

 

So for starters look at what's going on with Main Fuse B 30amp power. This fuse feeds all your EFI stuff including the Fuel Pump.

 

Follow these steps trust you have a multimeter.........

Clip your meter black lead to the battery Negative and start probing voltages with the other lead.  Measure 12v on both sides of Main Fuse B the fuse has tiny metal test points on the top of the fuse probe these. Next measure 12v at the 18p Blue connector probe both sides where the Red/White wire enters and exits the connector. Now up to the ESR Engine Stop Relay measure the 12v at the Relay Base, Red/White wire.

Now with Ignition to On Kill Switch to Run make sure you measure 12v on the Black wire for the ESR coil. Note - This Black wire is Positive 12v from the Kill Switch.

Does the ESR energise? If it does you should now have 12v on the all important Black/White wire at the ESR and at the FCR Fuel Cut Relay.

 

Get back to us regarding these first few checks.

 

[Kobo]

12 hours ago, Grum said:

Hi Kyle.

What a bloody mess! You could have all sorts of damaged wires and connector issues.

OK. So the obvious thought is your ECM is completely unpowered, this could be either Power Or Ground wise. The other issue is you Fi Light Not coming On, it should be On if the ECM is unpowered. Is the Instrument Panel or it's wiring damaged? The fact your bike cranks over, means your Main Fuse A 30amp power is good.

 

Do you have a wiring diagram And the Service Manual? Downloadable from this site? Hopefully the attached drawing will help.

 

With the status of your bike you're going to need to measure voltages and do continuity checks, just visually looking ain't good enough.

 

So for starters look at what's going on with Main Fuse B 30amp power. This fuse feeds all your EFI stuff including the Fuel Pump.

 

Follow these steps trust you have a multimeter.........

Clip your meter black lead to the battery Negative and start probing voltages with the other lead.  Measure 12v on both sides of Main Fuse B the fuse has tiny metal test points on the top of the fuse probe these. Next measure 12v at the 18p Blue connector probe both sides where the Red/White wire enters and exits the connector. Now up to the ESR Engine Stop Relay measure the 12v at the Relay Base.

Now with Ignition to On Kill Switch to Run make sure you measure 12v on the Black wire for the ESR coil. Note - This Black wire is Positive 12v from the Kill Switch.

Does the ESR energise? If it does you should now have 12v on the all important Black/White wire at the ESR and at the FCR Fuel Cut Relay.

 

Get back to us regarding these first few checks.

 

The legend himself responded! I’ve spent many hours reading on this forum and have seen your knowledge so I was hoping to see you respond lol. I will check everything you have suggested when I get home from work and will check back in. Thanks!

[styran]

1 hour ago, Kobo said:

The legend himself responded! I’ve spent many hours reading on this forum and have seen your knowledge so I was hoping to see you respond lol. I will check everything you have suggested when I get home from work and will check back in. Thanks!

When me and his buddy worked on his bike after a big accident we could not get the computer to fire up, we looked at the diagram and the bank angle sensor was missing. We jumped the outside pins of the bank angle sensor connector and the bike fired right up.

Check the fuse first then this may be worth a shot.

 

[Grum]

3 hours ago, styran said:

When me and his buddy worked on his bike after a big accident we could not get the computer to fire up, we looked at the diagram and the bank angle sensor was missing. We jumped the outside pins of the bank angle sensor connector and the bike fired right up.

Check the fuse first then this may be worth a shot.

 

Hi Styran.

Good point you raise and I had exactly the same thought.

The first thing I did was zoom in on his picture and noticed the BAS looked properly mounted and electrically connected. There could be a good chance the crash impact has internally damaged the BAS.

 

He also stated - "All fuses are good and all connections have been checked as well." !

 

All will be revealed regards the BAS with the suggested voltage measurements.

[Kobo]

21 hours ago, Grum said:

Hi Kyle.

What a bloody mess! You could have all sorts of damaged wires and connector issues.

OK. So the obvious thought is your ECM is completely unpowered, this could be either Power Or Ground wise. The other issue is your Fi Light Not coming On, it should be On if the ECM is unpowered. Is the Instrument Panel or it's wiring damaged? The fact your bike cranks over, means your Main Fuse A 30amp power is good.

 

Do you have a wiring diagram And the Service Manual? Downloadable from this site? Hopefully the attached drawing will help.

 

With the status of your bike you're going to need to measure voltages and do continuity checks, just visually looking ain't good enough.

 

So for starters look at what's going on with Main Fuse B 30amp power. This fuse feeds all your EFI stuff including the Fuel Pump.

 

Follow these steps trust you have a multimeter.........

Clip your meter black lead to the battery Negative and start probing voltages with the other lead.  Measure 12v on both sides of Main Fuse B the fuse has tiny metal test points on the top of the fuse probe these. Next measure 12v at the 18p Blue connector probe both sides where the Red/White wire enters and exits the connector. Now up to the ESR Engine Stop Relay measure the 12v at the Relay Base, Red/White wire.

Now with Ignition to On Kill Switch to Run make sure you measure 12v on the Black wire for the ESR coil. Note - This Black wire is Positive 12v from the Kill Switch.

Does the ESR energise? If it does you should now have 12v on the all important Black/White wire at the ESR and at the FCR Fuel Cut Relay.

 

Get back to us regarding these first few checks.

 

Okay, 30a main fuse-12v, red/white wire on blue connector-12v in/out, ESR-12v throughout and FCR also 12v. 

instrument cluster seems to be in good condition besides a crack in the cover and the plug is fine and wires are in order. BUT I have just realized the ABS and FI do not come on when the ignition is on.. I also unplugged some vital sensors to try and induce an FI light with no response. No idea what that means. 

[Kobo]

7 hours ago, styran said:

When me and his buddy worked on his bike after a big accident we could not get the computer to fire up, we looked at the diagram and the bank angle sensor was missing. We jumped the outside pins of the bank angle sensor connector and the bike fired right up.

Check the fuse first then this may be worth a shot.

 

Nice idea. I just tried it and still have no spark. 😕

[Grum]

2 hours ago, Kobo said:

Okay, 30a main fuse-12v, red/white wire on blue connector-12v in/out, ESR-12v throughout and FCR also 12v. 

instrument cluster seems to be in good condition besides a crack in the cover and the plug is fine and wires are in order. BUT I have just realized the ABS and FI do not come on when the ignition is on.. I also unplugged some vital sensors to try and induce an FI light with no response. No idea what that means. 

 

ABS Light!!! Looking at your bike photo again I don't see an ABS Pulser Ring on the R/H Brake disc! Are you sure It has ABS???? ECM is not capable of reporting a fault code in its current dead state!

 

Ok good report. Just want to be clear, when you Switch Ignition ON you measure 12v at the FCR Black/White wires? If so that confirms the BAS and ESR are working.

 

Fi Light not ON.....Suspect a bad Ground!

The ECM provides a Ground path for the Fi Light then it turns the Ground Path OFF when all is OK after Fuel Prime. This is why the Fi Light should be fully ON if there was a power loss to the ECM as it cannot switch OFF the Ground path, OR No Fi Light if the Ground is actually missing. So it might be an idea to now check both Power and Grounds at the ECM, especially seeing you have good access to the ECM plugs.

 

ECM....

There may be variations on pin/socket locations for different countries and models, but its the Colour Code of the wire that is important.... NOTE - Plug A is BLACK. Plug B is GRAY. Unplug these.

 - Locate the Black/White wire at the ECM (Main 12v ECM Power) Possibly at B11. With Ignition On probe the plug socket with this wire, Confirm you measure 12v.

- Now to measure the three ECM Grounds. Ignition to OFF, switch you meter to the lowest Ohms Range or Buzzer mode. Again with the black meter clipped to Battery Negative terminal (not just frame.) Now probe the ECM Grounds and make sure you hear the Buzzer and you are seeing virtually ZERO Ohms continuity for each wire. You should find two Green/Pink wires possibly at B1 and B2 AND one Green wire possibly at B14.

 

Fuel Pump ops...

While you have the two ECM plugs disconnected it would be a good and safe time to test the Fuel Pump and verify a healthy 12v on the Black/White wire. And if you Do get the Jumpering wrong you won't blow the tits off the ECM!

- Remove the FCR and Jumper One of the Black/White wires at the relay socket to the Brown wire (NOT THE BROWN/BLACK).

- With Ignition to On Kill Switch to RUN the Fuel Pump should be running. Verifies Pump, Power and Ground is good.

 

Make sure the Frame Ground point is clean and tight and major grounds are good. See attached drawing.

 

 

[Kobo]

On 4/10/2024 at 10:48 PM, Grum said:

 

ABS Light!!! Looking at your bike photo again I don't see an ABS Pulser Ring on the R/H Brake disc! Are you sure It has ABS???? ECM is not capable of reporting a fault code in its current dead state!

 

Ok good report. Just want to be clear, when you Switch Ignition ON you measure 12v at the FCR Black/White wires? If so that confirms the BAS and ESR are working.

 

Fi Light not ON.....Suspect a bad Ground!

The ECM provides a Ground path for the Fi Light then it turns the Ground Path OFF when all is OK after Fuel Prime. This is why the Fi Light should be fully ON if there was a power loss to the ECM as it cannot switch OFF the Ground path, OR No Fi Light if the Ground is actually missing. So it might be an idea to now check both Power and Grounds at the ECM, especially seeing you have good access to the ECM plugs.

 

ECM....

There may be variations on pin/socket locations for different countries and models, but its the Colour Code of the wire that is important.... NOTE - Plug A is BLACK. Plug B is GRAY. Unplug these.

 - Locate the Black/White wire at the ECM (Main 12v ECM Power) Possibly at B11. With Ignition On probe the plug socket with this wire, Confirm you measure 12v.

- Now to measure the three ECM Grounds. Ignition to OFF, switch you meter to the lowest Ohms Range or Buzzer mode. Again with the black meter clipped to Battery Negative terminal (not just frame.) Now probe the ECM Grounds and make sure you hear the Buzzer and you are seeing virtually ZERO Ohms continuity for each wire. You should find two Green/Pink wires possibly at B1 and B2 AND one Green wire possibly at B14.

 

Fuel Pump ops...

While you have the two ECM plugs disconnected it would be a good and safe time to test the Fuel Pump and verify a healthy 12v on the Black/White wire. And if you Do get the Jumpering wrong you won't blow the tits off the ECM!

- Remove the FCR and Jumper One of the Black/White wires at the relay socket to the Brown wire (NOT THE BROWN/BLACK).

- With Ignition to On Kill Switch to RUN the Fuel Pump should be running. Verifies Pump, Power and Ground is good.

 

Make sure the Frame Ground point is clean and tight and major grounds are good. See attached drawing.

 

 

You’re correct it is a non-abs bike. 

Yes sir I have 12v at the FCR and ESR. 

(also I apologize for the late response. I promise i’m not giving up just been very busy)

ECU: Tested 12v on the black/white wire. Both green/pink wires tested 0.1 ohms as well as the green wire. 

Fuel pump: It runs! The first sign of life. I bridged the black/white wire to the brown wire and the fuel pump primed. 

Also checked the grounds points you pointed out and they are solid. No corrosion. 

 

 

[Grum]

Good report again Kyle.

Hmmm getting tricky!

Can you just re-confirm that - with everything plugged back in, at switch On, Kill switch to RUN, do you at least hear the Fuel Pump prime/run for  2 to 3secs?

If not, just for the hell of it swap the FCR with your Hi Beam Relay, does this change things?

 

Fi Light - Do a continuity check of the White/Blue wire from the Instrument Panel to (possibly!) A20 at the ECM. Refer above wiring diagram.

 

 

 

[Kobo]

42 minutes ago, Grum said:

Good report again Kyle.

Hmmm getting tricky!

Can you just re-confirm that - with everything plugged back in, at switch On, Kill switch to RUN, do you at least hear the Fuel Pump prime/run for  2 to 3secs?

If not, just for the hell of it swap the FCR with your Hi Beam Relay, does this change things?

 

Fi Light - Do a continuity check of the White/Blue wire from the Instrument Panel to (possibly!) A20 at the ECM. Refer above wiring diagram.

 

 

 

Very tricky! With (mostly) everything plugged in, the fuel pump runs continuously with the plug bridged. (didn’t hook up fuel line since it was just a test for the pump. could be why it’s running continuously. not sure.) I swapped the hi beam relay in AFTER confirmation of fuel pump. Pump did not run with relay in. 

 

Continuity check on FI light wire was good. 

 

So far everything seems good. Unless there’s a vital piece that i’m missing… I can’t help but think ECU…

[Grum]

6 hours ago, Kobo said:

Very tricky! With (mostly) everything plugged in, the fuel pump runs continuously with the plug bridged. (didn’t hook up fuel line since it was just a test for the pump. could be why it’s running continuously. not sure.) I swapped the hi beam relay in AFTER confirmation of fuel pump. Pump did not run with relay in. 

 

Continuity check on FI light wire was good. 

 

So far everything seems good. Unless there’s a vital piece that i’m missing… I can’t help but think ECU…

 

We're not done just yet.

 

1 - Ok. So I get from what you're saying. You still do not hear the Fuel Pump prime at switch on?

 

2 - Can you elaborate as to what isn't plugged in? Apart from the obvious light's.

 

"the fuel pump runs continuously with the plug bridged. (didn’t hook up fuel line since it was just a test for the pump. could be why it’s running continuously. not sure.)"  That's exactly what should happen when bypassing the FCR! Fuel Pump runs continuously.

 

3 - Verify good continuity of the Brown/Black wire(FCR control wire) from the FCR to A21 (or possibly B18?) at the ECM.

 

Here's a test for the ECM and Fi Light.

Refer to chapter 5 in the Service Manual pages 5-7 to 5-8.

4 - Add a shorting link to the the ECM Service Check Connector as if you wanted to retrieve any historical Fault Codes. With Sidestand down and kill switch to RUN. Switch On Ignition. Does the Fi Light come On or flash a code? It should do one or the other.

 

5 - Looking at your photo again and seeing the ECM exposed as it is. Do a close inspection for any impact damage, are there any physical signs of cracks, on the ECM or its connectors?

 

6 - Check the wiring of the Ignition Switch. Does it have a pink wire and a diode mounted on the underneath of the switch like the photo attached?  This diode and wire performs an ECM enabled and security function.

 

7 - And one Final Test, the end is near! Voltages measurement, Red meter lead to Battery Positive. Black lead to the Brown/Black wire for the FCR. Everything plugged in. Kill Switch to RUN, with Ignition to On, DO YOU MEASURE 12V FOR APPROXIMATELY 2 TO 3 SECONDS AT SWITCH ON?

 

Let's know how you get on with the above questions and tests. All 7 of them Please! This should determine if you do have a dud ECM.

 

[Kobo]

On 4/15/2024 at 10:20 PM, Grum said:

 

We're not done just yet.

 

1 - Ok. So I get from what you're saying. You still do not hear the Fuel Pump prime at switch on?

 

2 - Can you elaborate as to what isn't plugged in? Apart from the obvious light's.

 

"the fuel pump runs continuously with the plug bridged. (didn’t hook up fuel line since it was just a test for the pump. could be why it’s running continuously. not sure.)"  That's exactly what should happen when bypassing the FCR! Fuel Pump runs continuously.

 

3 - Verify good continuity of the Brown/Black wire(FCR control wire) from the FCR to A21 (or possibly B18?) at the ECM.

 

Here's a test for the ECM and Fi Light.

Refer to chapter 5 in the Service Manual pages 5-7 to 5-8.

4 - Add a shorting link to the the ECM Service Check Connector as if you wanted to retrieve any historical Fault Codes. With Sidestand down and kill switch to RUN. Switch On Ignition. Does the Fi Light come On or flash a code? It should do one or the other.

 

5 - Looking at your photo again and seeing the ECM exposed as it is. Do a close inspection for any impact damage, are there any physical signs of cracks, on the ECM or its connectors?

 

6 - Check the wiring of the Ignition Switch. Does it have a pink wire and a diode mounted on the underneath of the switch like the photo attached?  This diode and wire performs an ECM enabled and security function.

 

7 - And one Final Test, the end is near! Voltages measurement, Red meter lead to Battery Positive. Black lead to the Brown/Black wire for the FCR. Everything plugged in. Kill Switch to RUN, with Ignition to On, DO YOU MEASURE 12V FOR APPROXIMATELY 2 TO 3 SECONDS AT SWITCH ON?

 

Let's know how you get on with the above questions and tests. All 7 of them Please! This should determine if you do have a dud ECM.

 

(finally had time to do these check. apologies for the late response)

1. the fuel pump runs when the plug is bridged. does not run with relay plugged in. 

2. the fuel lines and plugs for the airbox are the only things unplugged during testing. (sorry if that was confusing)

3. black/brown wire has good continuity from FCR to ECM plug. 

4. i had tried this test before but went ahead and tried it again. no FI light illumination. 

5. the ECM seems to be in good shape. has a few scratches and dings but the connectors look good. no cracks. (i’ll add a picture)

6. i was unable to check the ignition switch as of right now. the bolts holding it on are stripped out so i will have to drill it out. if that is vital i will remove it to check. 

7. curiously i do not get 12v at FCR plug at ignition on.. i had checked it before and swore i had 11v continuously but i just double checked and i had MV… 

 

😭 

[Grum]

6. Ignition Switch. No need to remove at this stage. Go to the 4P connector for it and see if it has the Pink wire.

 

"7. curiously i do not get 12v at FCR plug at ignition on.. i had checked it before and swore i had 11v continuously but i just double checked and i had MV"

Need to be very clear about this statement!..Are you saying you are Not measuring 12v on the Black/White wires of the FCR at switch On? OR, you don't measure 12v on the Brown/Black wire with respect to Battery positive for 2 to 3sec at switch On? See attached.

 

If you don't have the Pink Wire on the Ignition Switch, and you do have 12v on the Black/White wires, and not seeing the 12v for the 2 to 3secs as per above, then.......... After all that's been checked, can only suspect the ECM is toast!

[Kobo]

On 4/29/2024 at 6:29 PM, Grum said:

6. Ignition Switch. No need to remove at this stage. Go to the 4P connector for it and see if it has the Pink wire.

 

"7. curiously i do not get 12v at FCR plug at ignition on.. i had checked it before and swore i had 11v continuously but i just double checked and i had MV"

Need to be very clear about this statement!..Are you saying you are Not measuring 12v on the Black/White wires of the FCR at switch On? OR, you don't measure 12v on the Brown/Black wire with respect to Battery positive for 2 to 3sec at switch On? See attached.

 

If you don't have the Pink Wire on the Ignition Switch, and you do have 12v on the Black/White wires, and not seeing the 12v for the 2 to 3secs as per above, then.......... After all that's been checked, can only suspect the ECM is toast!

I have the pink wire. 

 

both black/white wires have 12v at switch on. the black/brown wire has nothing at switch on with kill switch on. 

 

sounds like I need an ECM?

[Grum]

 

Are you sure that's a Pink wire? Not a solid Red wire?

 

I don't think it's the Pink wire and your Ignition Switch configuration is like the attached drawing. Grab your meter and probe that Pink looking Red wire see if it has 12v on it with Ignition to OFF. If it has, then it's the hot 12v from Main Fuse A 30amp.

 

"the black/brown wire has nothing at switch on with kill switch on." And you had the Red meter lead on battery Positive while measuring the Black/brown wire, Yes?

 

That be the case then Yes, all appears to point to your ECM being dead.

 

[Kobo]

14 hours ago, Grum said:

 

Are you sure that's a Pink wire? Not a solid Red wire?

 

I don't think it's the Pink wire and your Ignition Switch configuration is like the attached drawing. Grab your meter and probe that Pink looking Red wire see if it has 12v on it with Ignition to OFF. If it has, then it's the hot 12v from Main Fuse A 30amp.

 

"the black/brown wire has nothing at switch on with kill switch on." And you had the Red meter lead on battery Positive while measuring the Black/brown wire, Yes?

 

That be the case then Yes, all appears to point to your ECM being dead.

 

It’s highly possible that it’s supposed to be solid red but looks pinkish lol

I just probed the solid red wire. 12v with ignition off so you are correct. 

Yes, red lead to battery positive probing the black/brown wire with ignition on with no beans. 

ordering an ECM right now! I will update once it arrives. THANK YOU

[Grum]

4 hours ago, Kobo said:

It’s highly possible that it’s supposed to be solid red but looks pinkish lol

I just probed the solid red wire. 12v with ignition off so you are correct. 

Yes, red lead to battery positive probing the black/brown wire with ignition on with no beans. 

ordering an ECM right now! I will update once it arrives. THANK YOU

Hi Kyle.

Good follow up. Voltage measurements confirm, you do NOT have the Pink Security ECM enable wire.

 

After all the extensive testing, you have no choice but to replace the ECM. Hope you're able to find a Fully Serviceable ECM from somewhere!

 

Good Luck hope it all goes well. Let's know how you get on.

[Kobo]

On 5/4/2024 at 6:36 PM, Grum said:

Hi Kyle.

Good follow up. Voltage measurements confirm, you do NOT have the Pink Security ECM enable wire.

 

After all the extensive testing, you have no choice but to replace the ECM. Hope you're able to find a Fully Serviceable ECM from somewhere!

 

Good Luck hope it all goes well. Let's know how you get on.

IT RUNS!!! Can’t thank you enough. 

[Grum]

Hi Kyle.

 

Thats Great news glad the expense of a replacement ECM was worth it. All the testing done to come to the conclusion the ECM was faulty was also worth it as 99% of the time the ECM is fine, it's just everthing hanging off the ECM that is at fault, ECMs are increadibly reliable given their complexity, you want to be as sure as possible that your ECM is in that 1% category before outlaying the big bucks for a replacement.

 

Good Luck with the project.

Cheers.

 

[Kobo]

1 hour ago, Grum said:

Hi Kyle.

 

Thats Great news glad the expense of a replacement ECM was worth it. All the testing done to come to the conclusion the ECM was faulty was also worth it as 99% of the time the ECM is fine, it's just everthing hanging off the ECM that is at fault, ECMs are increadibly reliable given their complexity, you want to be as sure as possible that your ECM is in that 1% category before outlaying the big bucks for a replacement.

 

Good Luck with the project.

Cheers.

 

i do not regret the testing at all. i learned so much from this process (you) and i'm excited to dive even further into the platform. i will try to update as the build progresses. again, thank you so much. 

 

cheers 🍻