twistednoble

Got busy and didn't get a chance to update.

I finally got to adjusting the idle and it's slowed the knock quite a bit. I don't think it is the cam chain this time; I'm actually curious what @Lorne can enlighten me with about worn clutch baskets. 

When I grab the clutch it will stop making that intermittent noise completely so long as I continue to hold it, then when I let go of the clutch it will wait for a second and then start doing it again. I don't think it's a cam chain issue since the noise will go away once the bike is warmed up. When I had cam chain noise it would continue to make the noise regardless of engine temp.

Heres the video as requested.

@Grum

52 minutes ago, Lorne said:

 

Worn clutch basket, perchance?

 

Have an example video of what that sounds like? 

7 hours ago, Grum said:

You say you did the CCT in the V, that's the forward cylinders, how about the rear cylinders CCT are you hearing this noise up near the head area of the rear cylinders? That would point to the rear CCT at fault, also the rear CCT is easy to replace.

Perhaps a video posted might help to diagnose your issue.

It's difficult to tell where the noise is. It doesnt seem to be much louder on one side or the other.

I added a extra spin of preload to the rear CCT when I replaced the front one. Reasoning being that at the time, the front bank had some of the chain noise associated with the cct getting sloppy. The rear bank did not have that noise and is easily accessed so I let it be (aside from a little extra spring preload) until it starts making noise as well. 

A sound file is worth a thousand words I suppose. I'll take a video of it tomorrow night when I get home. 

I'm not quite sure about this one. No Fi light and bike has 35k on it. 

My '03 is acting up and I'm not quite sure how to diag it. On a cold startup the bike will sometimes miss or knock a bit. It's not a dead miss or a consistent pattern like one cylinder is the issue but it makes noises I'm positve aren't normal and it has me on my toes. 

The bike is desmoged, and has a slip on but nothing beyond that. Maintenence is all up to date, new expensive plugs at 30k, gas is fresh, filters and oil is clean. 

I'm ultra paranoid because the big girl has a habit of throwing me expensive curveballs right at the end of the season. Two years ago the R/R blew and took the stator with it, last year the thermostat seals had enough, started peeing and I had to sit through backorders for a couple months to get new hoses and o-rings (did the CCT in the V at the same time). Now it's making a funny noise and it's right about that time again but this time I'm not in a place where I can field a more expensive repair. I do it all myself but, VFR parts are spendier than the Dualsport parts I'm used to buying even for the smaller stuff.

I love the thing but I'm conisdering selling at this point. I'd definitely regret it but it might be that time. I'm meandering away from the original point though...

Is anyone familiar with some startup knock and what the root issue may be? Or at least where I should start looking?

Picked up a 893 shock and fitted it. Required some wiggling to get it in but it fit like it was meant to be.

This particular specimen came off a CBR1100XX and has a 1000# Eibach spring on it, and has been into some point going off the schrader valve on the reservoir. Got a deal on it for for the low cost of $80 including the CBRXX linkage and mount. No parts compatibility there beyond the upper shackle unfortunately, so I'll see if I can't resell the excess parts to someone who can get some use out of it. The reservoir hose isn't the longest but you can run it to the LH side and tie it to the subframe. I've got it cable-tied in place for now, a proper mounting solution will be figured out soon. 

First impressions, it definitely jacks up the rear. I'm up on my feet now compared to how easily flat footed I was previously. I incorrectly set the preload and gave it far too much and now I have to figure out how I twist the adjuster without removing the shock. I was using a pipe wrench and a C-clamp to get it adjusted on the bench. Damping is much improved compared to the monoshock excepting a little harshness from the excess preload. Now the expansion grooves and undulations in the road are whispered through the pegs instead of no feedback until it hits the bottom of the stroke and boots me in the ass like it used to. 

New avenue to report. The cbr900rr(893) shock appears like it will function. It has a remote reservoir and is adjustable for compression and rebound. Its also 318mm in length so almost spot on for the VFR.

17 minutes ago, ducnut said:

Race Tech sell the Schrader valve to recharge an OEM shock. 

Most common spring rates I’ve seen are over 1000#. My Penske has a 1300# spring and is perfect for my fluctuating 200-220 pounds. 

 

You’re going to need to alter the valving, if you’re planning to change the spring. Not sure anyone will be giving up shim stack info for a specific spring.

 

If it were me, I’d buy a YSS and be done with it. However, the shock will highlight how bad the frontend is and you’ll be needing to rework that, as well. 

Interesting, RT spec'd a 1300 lb spring for me too and I'm heavier than you. 

You are correct, shim stacks are highly coveted and no suspension tuner would ever reveal their secret sauce. Thankfully from what I've read the OE showa uses a straight stack. Shouldn't be too difficult to make a pyramid stack that provides some level of improvement. 

The best you know is only the best you've ridden. So long as I don't taste the $600 sauce I don't know what I'll be missing.

5 hours ago, Terry said:

While I am all for experimentation with suspension, I don't believe it is possible for us mere mortals to open a shock and change oil or shims. Showa shocks like the Blackbird or VFR have a nitrogen charge above a floating piston at the blind end of the shock body. To open the shock you will need to fight against that gas pressure to get the circlip out, followed by an "exciting" pressure release.

 

How Showa build these shocks in the first place is a mystery to me, but as there are no shortage of sealed gas shocks in the world it must be simple with the right machinery.

 

To do the job right, you need to breach the blind end of the body and release the pressure in a more controlled manner, then fit a valve there so you can re-pressurise after rebuilding the shock. 

 

YMMV and all that.

Thank you for pointing that out. I stumbled across Jamie talking about how he de-gasses and re-gasses montoubes on the superhawk forum. Might be interesting but I think I could do it; I have the know-how to try it, and I'm just dumb enough to consider doing it. I'll do some thinking.

A F4(i) shock would probably be easier to rebuild but would leave me needing a spring if the VFR spring isn't usable for it (which I don't believe it is). Does anyone have a chart for spring rates per rider weight? I'm hesitant to trust racetech's calculator coming from my experience in the dirt world (they spec overly stiff springs like I'm gonna be doing supercross on a DRZ or DR).

15 minutes ago, Captain 80s said:

 

I wouldn't expect it to be any better than a VFR shock, even with half the miles.  Why would it?  It's pretty much the exact same shock, that wasn't that impressive when new.  Better than something from the 80s?  Of course, but that isn't saying much.  The only thing you'll gain is maybe 5mm in length for some additional ride height.   

 

An actual improvement doesn't have to break the bank (but it can I know).  Perhaps look at YSS.  I have them on 5 bikes now and they are a great shock and value, which I need when I am upgrading so many bikes.

Thanks for the reply.

I'm pulling for a super budget option at the moment which is why the ebay special BB shock is in the running. If I had the money I'd ship the stock shock off to Jamie and have him fix it up for me. Unfortunately the VFR is pulling commuting duty so extended downtime while the shock is getting worked on for a week or two isn't in the cards. It looks like the YSS is in about the same price bracket too.

Maybe I'll get a BB shock and set it in the vice and see what the stack looks like. At least then I can swap back and forth between the two and still be able to ride to work on Monday. If it's really underwhelming it'll still give me time to refresh the stock shock. Hopefully if it's cleaned up and given an oil change it'll match the front fork's drastic improvement.

Can anyone speak to the blackbird shock's damping when it's installed a VFR? I've got my eye on one currently.

I've got 34k miles on all stock components. I had to fix a leaking fork seal last weekend and now with new bushings and 10w oil the front end is drastically improved from where it was. The front end eats up undulations and expander gaps.

This had the side effect of making the 34k mile worn shock feel like junk. The front end will float over the bump and then then the rear wheel will go over the same bump and feel like someone kicked me square in the buttocks through the seat.

After a long wait for the hoses to come in from Japan we are back together and rolling again. I forgot to take a picture of the glossy new hoses before I put the bodies back on. I capped all of the EVAP hoses at the throttle bodies like I said I would so I could get rid of one of the four way junctions. Apologies for the crap picture, I didn't even look at it after I took it.

But over the course of the afternoon I got it rolled back out and put back together. A couple of key cycles to prime the pump and then a overly long warmup to bleed the coolant system since it was only 30 degrees outside. The stinkin thermostat would open and the water temp would drop ten degrees in a couple seconds. Other than that it went well and I do not have any new leaks after a ride to fill the tank back up.

Once it warms up this weekend I'll get the plastics back on and take her for a longer ride to check for any new issues. Yes I did top off the overflow tank after I got the coolant system burped. Cheers, and thanks for everyone's help.

6 hours ago, Grum said:

"Metal thingamajig" ! Great description!

You might be referring to the VTEC Spool Valve.

Trust you have the Service Manual?

Sounds about right. I do have a manual. I just cannot find a reference to it in the lubrication or cooling circuits so it sparked my interest. There are only two metal thingamajigs down in the V and one is the thermostat which I've already mentioned. Process of elimination should make it easy for someone who knows to clarify what the other is.

6 hours ago, Cogswell said:

That's the VTEC solenoid.  It has  a single wire running to it.  When commanded open by the ECU, it lets pressurized oil flow through a spiderweb of passages in the heads  to the 8 VTEC valve followers which are latched closed by the high pressure oil. Once closed they can then actuate the 2nd set of 8 valves for 4 valve / cyl operation. Once rpm drops below the set point the valve closes,  pressure is removed and it's back to 2 valves per cylinder.

So that's where that is. Makes sense now that I think about it, you'd want it to be somewhere where it's equidistant from either head to keep one side of the engine from opening up significantly sooner than the other. That narrows down the places where they could put it pretty significantly.

Snarky answers aside, thank you for your help gentlemen. I'm no stranger to being arm deep in an engine, but the VFR is more densely packed than the bikes I'm usually working on.

One brand new loooooong screwdriver and a piece of wood later they're exposed. 

The suspicious slurry I believe is from fuel spill, hopefully should evaporate.

No obvious suspect for who was leaking. There is still some liquid way down in the V, but I have to start pulling hoses to get all the way down there. Honda has done me the wonderful solid of facing all of the hose clamps downwards so getting them all out will be interesting. I'll probably unscrew the ports into the block and hopefully it should get me access to some of the thermostat hoses. I think the thermostat is floating supported by hoses. Kind of a strange setup, but whatever.

What is the metal thingamajig wayyy down in the V of engine (left side if you were sitting on the bike)?

Alrighty gents, I'll get a new one in the name of not coming back in here to do it again. Haven't made it any farther yet on getting the bodies off. It's been a busy day.

6 minutes ago, Grum said:

Nice looking bike you have.

 

The vacuum system most certainly is needed! Make sure the vac hoses to the MAP sensor are good, no signs of cracking, as well as the hose to the FPR (Fuel Pressure Regulator) the only vacuum hose you could block off is for the Variable Air Intake system if you are intending to disable this system.

Don't recommend "rewinding" the CCT, replace it with a new one.

Replace the thermostat housing O'Ring seal and all other hosing within the Vee. Might be worth fitting a new thermostat on spec while you're in there given the bike age. Other hoses outside of the Vee can be replaced whenever! 

Make sure the four rubber throttle body couplings are good and properly tightened when refitting, you don't want vacuum leaks created here.

Shout it some new coolant, Honda Type 2 premixed coolant is the stuff I use, its both Silicate and Borate free.

Good luck.

Thanks!

I'll probably go replacing all of the vacuum hoses while I'm in here if I can't eliminate them, they're pretty crusty from age.

I was planning on reusing the coolant. I just put in fresh Honda blue this spring since I didn't know it's age and I'm not excited to go pay the $20-30 a bottle again. I've got half a bottle left on the shelf for top off if needed. The stuff that came out went into a clean bucket with a lid so it'll be ready for reuse.

You're absolutely correct on getting a new thermostat.

What's your reasoning for getting a new CCT over winding two or three more spins on the old one?

Howdy, longtime lurker stopping by for an advice request.

I've got a '03 with a little over 32k miles. I've taken good care of her, steady diet of full synth and a filter every 3k, new air filter every 10k, just install some new IR plugs, and some spendy Road5's to replace the squared off PP's. Delkevic slip on, PAIR delete, I pulled the EVAP system after a wrestling match with an oil filter required more space.  Average 35MPG all day.

I got her at 25k miles from a gentleman that had taken meticulous care of her and it's definitely been a highest highs lowest lows kind of thing with her. A good segment of trouble free miles then suddenly a problem that relegates her to the garage for a couple of weeks while I source parts.

The first time was a stator cooking itself and the R/R going at the same time (probably a chicken or the egg type deal).

Then it was the front brakes locking up and needing to be pulled and cleaned in the middle of traffic (destroyed the stock rotor getting the caliper off).

Now she's developed incontinence.

It's coming from the V of the block so I figure its the thermostat housing or a hose in that area. I've got it down to the throttle bodies and I'm taking a break while I type this. I don't have any parts ordered yet, gotta find the source before I pull out the wallet. I'm going to also rewind the front CCT while I'm in there and have the room to cut down on the noise some.

Now for the advice segment. What should I do while I have all this access?

Is the vacuum system needed for anything or can I cap it at the bodies to clean up some of the hoses running everywhere?