styran

2 hours ago, JZH said:

I can't say that looks good.  What does the cam journal look like?

 

Ciao,

 

JZH

I have it back in right now to check the clearences but I remember it does not look bad. Looked like the rest of the journals

2002 VFR800A, ~50,000 miles.

doing valve timing job, on the rear bank. heres photo for reference

these two bearings are the ones on the front, closest to the cam timing sprockets:

These 2 look good:

Heres the one im worried about, (next 3 photos) back left. this one grabs my fingernail:

How worried should I be regarding this motors longevity?

Amazon has some amazing bulk deals for these filters right now.

I can get the shorter of the 2 for $2.25 each (PL14612)

or the longer one for $4.6 each (PL14610)

I understand these 2 filters are identical besides the length.

I am debating which one to pick:

1. wondering if the longer option (PL14610) would be tough to fit with the radiator hose in the way (i've used a slightly shorter filter, and it was already a tight fit)

2. if i should just get the shorter filter (PL14612) just based on cost alone ($2.5 vs $4.6 each).

I would love to hear your thoughts!

sources:

https://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/FilterXRef.html#5

On 4/7/2024 at 1:23 PM, Grum said:

Good news thanks for the feedback.

Don't hear of the Frame Grounds going loose like that too often!

It was likely loosened accidently and forgotten about while my friend was replacing the main harness.

The bike needed an immediate oil change before starting as the oil was heavily contaminated with fuel. You could see the separation of layers in the oil sight glass.

With the bad ground, the injectors were leaking constantly, filling the cylinders with fuel to the point where it was leaking out the exhaust. I am guessing a lot of it washed down the cylinder walls. Unplugging the FI harness stopped the injectors from leaking while we were diagnosing the grounding problems

Bike has been running top notch ever since the battery ground was properly secured.

Its gonna be going offline soon for its first valve service at 50k miles

On 4/16/2024 at 11:15 AM, Rob said:

I have a 2007 VFR800, I just upgraded my rectifier and replaced the battery. I took it out on a test drive about 5 miles. As I was pulling into my drive way the bike died. When I turn the key on nothing happens, no lights on the instrument cluster no fuel pump priming. I'm looking for a starting point to start tracing the problem. I've checked the 30 amp fuse next to the battery it's ok. Battery has 13.1 volts. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Check both 30A main fuses one connected to starter solenoid and the other near battery.

Then check grounds.

Check battery-to-frame ground (under gas tank hinge) and frame-to-harness ground as well

So @Grum,

Should I replace them?

I just replaced by buddies (the one with the electrical problem) CCTs at 41k miles. Mines only at 22k and starting to clack

1 hour ago, Kobo said:

The legend himself responded! I’ve spent many hours reading on this forum and have seen your knowledge so I was hoping to see you respond lol. I will check everything you have suggested when I get home from work and will check back in. Thanks!

When me and his buddy worked on his bike after a big accident we could not get the computer to fire up, we looked at the diagram and the bank angle sensor was missing. We jumped the outside pins of the bank angle sensor connector and the bike fired right up.

Check the fuse first then this may be worth a shot.

Problem has been found. I have told my buddy several times to both grounds but only checked the main harness ground and never checked the grounding cable that goes from battery negative to the frame under the gas tank hinges. It was quite loose. He has taking his bike for multiple roadtrips and has had no issue since.

Thanks for all the help!

4 hours ago, Grum said:

So have you got the bike going after all your Ground and electrical problems?

 

Considering all the input that went into that issue, it would be kind of you to at leat post What the fix was?? So we can ALL learn.

 

The 2002 VFR800A is my buddy's bike. The 07 above is mine. I have been posting on his behalf. He believes he has found the problem. I have told him several times to both grounds but only checked the main harness ground and never checked the grounding cable that goes from battery negative to the frame under the gas tank hinges. It was quite loose. Once he takes his bike on a couple test rides I'll update the other post. Just wanna make sure we've got it fixed 100%

2007 VFR800 with 22,000 miles (32,000 km)

See youtube video below:

Are these the dreaded CCTs?

Is it normal to get them sounding like this with this little mileage?

My buddies 02 started rattling at 44k miles.

7 hours ago, Grum said:

Wonder if your version VFR has this front harness Ground Block, needs a good inspection if you have.

we inspected that exact yellow ground block in the front subharness in your pictures above.

terminals were silver and in good condition

On 3/27/2024 at 1:10 AM, Grum said:

Well, as mentioned above for Ground checking, you Must establish why you have a Ground integrity issue First.....

All grounds must have zero ohms/continuity back to the Battery Negative, and no ground should measure a voltage with respect to Battery Negative, ignition to On and Off.

Check ground bonding starting with the Engine and Main frame Ground. 

I'm assuming battery terminals are clean and tight and you have a charged healthy Battery?

 

 

Battery is healthy. Checked where battery bolts onto frame and that is tight.

Checked where main harness bolts to frame and that is tight too.

with key off, 0V on frame

with key on, killswitch on, 3.3v on frame

something is shorting somewhere.

unplugging the ESR shows 0v on frame.

we then depinned the ESR connector, we removed the black and white wire spade, that did not change anything, still 3v on frame.

We then removed the black wire spade, coming the killswtich on the handlebar. we got the relay to click by jumping the correspoding relay pin with battery postive. 3v on frame.

(this is the same as killswitch on, we are replicating that by jumping to batt positive)

from this we assume that the B/W and B wires are not causing the short.

so, when the relay receives 12 V from black wire, that is being grounded to G wire via the bank angle sensor.

the bank angle sensor connector is currently being jumped. G wire to R/Y is being jumpered

could that be causing the issue? we have gotten the bike to start before by jumping the bank angle sensor a very long time ago so we dont think this is the problem.

another interesting detail is pushing the starter button causes 3v on frame with the ESR in or out.

16 minutes ago, Grum said:

Holy Cow!! You seem to have gone badly backwards from just replacing the Starter Relay plug! Are you confident the wire in the plug ARE going to the correct connections at the Starter Relay?

Assume you're saying it cranks over but doesn't start? Is that correct.

Cranking excessively trying to start it has probably caused flooding.

Might require you to go through the purge process of throttle Fully open while cranking, shuts off injectors purging cylinders.

So if your battery voltage is say 12.5v and you leave your positive meter lead at the battery and you probe any ground point or wire and you're seeing noticeably lower than the 12.5v. This would point to either a bad Negative connection at the Battery or poor main Ground with to frame or engine.

 

Your messing with my head referring to frame ground power! If you have a meter lead on the Battery Neg terminal And you probe any Ground with the other lead AND you measure a voltage, then the Ground is Not properly Grounded.

Any suspicion of the BAS. For test purposes you can easily unplug it and bypass it to enable the ESR at switch On. You just need to link the Red/Yellow wire to the Green of the BAS.

So the Starter, BAS fuse is Not blowing, but somehow upsets power or ground??

Suggest taking good Voltage measurements with the Negative meter clipped onto Battery Negative

Probe.....

-12v on Black wire of the ESR Ignition to On. Voltage should come and Go as you operate the Kill Switch.

- 12v Solid on the Red/White wire of the ESR. This should be there All times Ignition On or Off, source is Main Fuse B 30amp.

- 12v On the Black/White wire of ESR Ignition to On.

Another weak link with the above voltage is the Blue 18P connector, refer your drawing, common problems of high resistance and poor connections  can appear at this connector.

Monitor the voltage at the Clock Fuse probing the tiny fuse test point on top of the fuse. You must see battery voltage here Ignition On and Off. This will confirm Main Fuse A 30amp power is good or bad!

Do the same for the Headlight Fuse F. This will confirm Ignition Switched power is OK or faulty, again you should be measuring battery voltage.

 

We replaced the subharness with an older subharness and still had the issue with positive voltage all over the grounds.

We have not tried cranking yet, if the dash even turns on its super dim. computer is not in because we do not want to fry it.

probing the frame with the conditions i mentioned above will result in positive voltage (4 or 9V instead of ground)

we tested continuity on the ignition switch and it was good.

if we turn the KEY to ON/OFF, with the dash unplugged, and the killswitch on STOP, the frame and harness grounds are GOOD.

with either the dash plugged in or the killswitch on RUN, all grounds are BAD ONLY with key ON and fuse mentioned in previous reply.

dash unplugged and killswitch RUN with the engine stop relay plugged in will cause it to click but will make all grounds BAD.

without relay, grounds GOOD.

we have removed the BAS and just left the connector jumpered (pins 1 and 3 connected). we originally thought it was causing the issue. the bike electronics are stripped down to only the essential components.

when the grounds are bad, they are bad absolutely everywhere except the batter negative and the bolt where the battery negative bolts onto the frame.

even the bolt where the main harness grounds to the frame is also bad with the conditions above.

before it got this bad the dash was lighting up like a christmas tree with erroneous speed readings with the bike stationary

the fuel cut off relay was buzzing continiously as well.

it has gotten so bad that this does not happen anymore and we have the issue mentioned above in the described conditions.

this is a very strange problem and i have never had anything like it before

@Grum

We added an extra power wire to the connector and replaced the burnt spade with the spade from an old main harness. That did not solve the problem.

The bike no longer starts now. Turning the key will cause some intense flickering and erroneousness readings for speed on the dash.

The bike will no longer start as well.

Additionally, the bike starts leaking fuel out of the exhaust headers onto the ground. Disconnecting the FI harness solved that issue.

With a power probe we found weak battery voltage on all parts of the frame (which should be ground) and EVERY wiring harness ground wires.

Grounds near gas tank hinge were inspected and in good condition.

We've isolated the problem to the "START, BANK ANGLE SENSOR FUSE" circuit.

The frame is powered by the weak battery voltage when the key is on and the fuse mention above is in.

Having the engine stop relay plugged in, bank angle sensor jumpered, killswitch run,  with key on will cause power to be sent through the frame grounds.

Without the relay the frame grounds and wire grounds normally with key on.

Plugging in the dash with key on will also cause the same issue as the relay with key on. Very strange. Either the dash or the engine stop relay being plugged in will energize all the grounds.

Swapping relays also had the same bad results.

We believe the issues is involved with the front subharness (big grey and blue connectors).

We have inspected the yellow grounding block on the front subharness and it is in good shape with no obvious burn marks.

To avoid frying expensive computers, we have removed the ABS module, pulled all ABS fuses, removed the ECM, removed main fuse B. All headlight fuses and connectors have been pulled as well.

We found that the tail license plate light was energizing the grounds at first, after unplugging it, the problem still persists.

Also, the issues still persisted with the front subharness replaced with an old one that was involved in the accident.

Any ideas?

20 hours ago, Grum said:

That is definitely heat stressed, the Red wire has turned brown and the red plug has melted, a hot and high resistance joint. Think you've found the fault!

 

The Red wire will need cutting back to good unheated copper and new spade connector fitted.

Its not essential to replace the relay coil spade connectors but if you can, then just do it.

 

Replace the red plug with these high quality tin spade connectors, sorry can't remember the web site, just do a Google on Starter Relay Plug replacements should find them. Make sure the Red Wire male spade in the Relay isn't burnt or corroded.

 

You could also try the wiring mod shown using the additional spare spade connector to the Main Fuse to share the electrical load, splicing an additional wire into the main Red wire.

 

Some OxGard on these conections will also help.

 

The coloured drawing is just a section from the 5gen Hi Res downloadable drawing from the forum. Starting circuit and wiring is the same as 6gen.

 

Is this good?

https://www.amazon.com/FLYPIG-Starter-Solenoid-Connector-CBR1100XX/dp/B06XC7KY6S

I'm not sure if it has tin spade connectors.

Will definitely splice the full red wire

6 hours ago, Grum said:

No Clock power and resetting is a definite sign of Main Fuse A 30amp power loss, located in the Starter Relay, it will also kill power to the Engine Stop Relay coil = Dead Engine, and power for the Starter Relay coil = No Starter Cranking.

 

Further info - Loss of Clock backup power and it resetting also confirms that the fault can't be an Ignition Switch problem, as backup power is Not switched through the Ignition Switch.

 

Check the Red plug at the Starter Relay. Check for any sign of heat stressed wires and burnt spade connections for the Red wire. Check the fuse and its legs for any signs of heat stress or poor/loose connections.

 

Even though you have replaced the battery it still could be an issue. What does the battery voltage drop to as you attempt to start the engine?  Is your replacement battery a good quality item or Chinese cheapy? I've heard of a couple of new battery scenarios that were down on capacity straight out of the box, and not able to hold a charge, it may have been sitting on the store shelf for too long!

 

Let's know how you get on, good luck.

 

Battery still has good voltage. 12.8V with everything off.

the problem is very intermittent. the bike currently cranks and starts up with no issues, at least right now.

ended up returning the new Yusasa YTZ12S battery and put the old battery back in.

main fuse A seemed in okay condition.

the red connector going to the starter relay had a hole much bigger than your picutre.

Could that cause the problem?

the old wiring harness has the red connector in good condition so I can swap them out.

ALSO, where did you get that wiring diagram with the colors? The one in the shop manual is black and white and a pain to look at.

02 VFR ABS, recently in an accident. main wiring harness replaced

The bike will randomly completely lose power momentarily. Everything will shut off, including the dash and motor. When the dash powers back on, the clock resets and the speedo resets to KMH.

We measured 14 volts charging a couple days ago.

Replacing the battery did not fix the issue.

Now, after a random shutoff, the dash will light up but the bike will no longer start. It feels like there is not enough voltage to turn the starter.

Measuring the voltage with key off had 12.2 volts

with key on and engine off measured at 11.5 volts

bike did not start and did not crank fully

What could be the issue here?

I need a new cooling fan as the old one is warped and wobbles,

I am noticing similarities between the fan for the sixth gen and the fan for an Yamaha FZ1 or R6.

Does anyone know who manufactures the fans so I can get more info about this?

The Yamaha fans are significantly cheaper and if I can buy one and put it on the VFR that would be great.

I am not talking about the motor but the plastic assembly with the blades the motor turns.

See the two ebay links below:

Yamaha FZ1:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/386589503647
 

PAG30 written on fan

Honda VFR800:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/276154135140

PPG30 written on fan

Yamaha R6:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/256379216886

2 hours ago, Terry said:

If you look on the Partzilla site it does actually show which other models each part fits. In the case of the 2002 stay it is shown as fitting the 02, 03, 04 and 05. So the answer is YES!

 

Unfortunately, we could not find an ABS stay bracket before 06 in good condition.

We are buying an 08 stay bracket and we are going to have to find a way to mount the 02 ECM (which is larger than the 07 one) to the bracket.

The only observed differences with the newer stay bracket are the mounting bracket for the ECM, and room for an extra relay behind the gauge cluster,

On 1/14/2024 at 5:54 AM, Sweeper said:

If I recall correctly, the connectors are different on the 06 ECM.

Similar question, will a post 05 stay bracket fit an 02?

https://www.partzilla.com/catalog/honda/motorcycle/2002/vfr800a-ac-interceptor/cowl-stay-abs

My buddy's bike got into an accident and we need to replace the main harness.

I was wondering can I buy a 06 main harness on put it on?

I know there are ECM differences after 05 so that is why  I am asking.

ABS model

2 hours ago, Grum said:

You're going to need to replace the fuse holder and chop out the single inline connector.

Use a high quality inline fuse holder capable of 30amp, something like the attached pictures, a local Auto parts store should be able to help you out.

Will do, thanks.

Replacing the fuse made everything work again

43 minutes ago, Grum said:

Good work, follow that power line down to the 18P Blue connector, make sure you measure it both sides of the connector, then move back to Main Fuse B.

Main Fuse B 30amp and its wiring along with the 18P Blue connector are the two weak links for the ECM power source.

Think you mean the MIL - Malfunction Indicator Lamp.

 

Ah you are right, it's MIL. My bad, I'll change the title.

I checked that exact fuse and the carrier is discolored from heat, part of wire thats from the fuse to the connector is exposed and slightly corroded (green). The fuse itself has bubbles and is appears to be blown. It is evident that fuse got hot. I'm not sure why. I think the fuse blew because the exposed wire touched the frame of the bike.

A continuity check verified that the wire leading to fuse goes directly to the engine stop relay. It is also colored the same.

I put some liquid electrical tape on the wire although there is still some green surface corrosion left on the exposed part of the wire. Will insulation suffice or should I replace the small wire segment all together?

1 hour ago, jstehman said:

What's the voltage at the battery terminals and how's the condition of Fuse B down there in the battery tray?

And what's MEL?

Sent from my SM-S911U using Tapatalk
 

I checked the ECM power line and its receiving no power. 

I also checked the engine stop relay and it is clicking and works but receiving no power to send to ECU.

I am going to check the fuse next.

The MEL is the red FI light on the dashboard.

While I was riding the motorcycle it lost throttle response. Upon trying to restart the bike it would crank but not restart. Moving the engine cut off to on or off clicks a relay and allows the starter to engage but the MEL does not illuminate for a couple seconds (as it should) and the fuel pump does not prime.  The motorcycle can crank forever and not start. Thus, I have reason to believe the ECU is not turning on.

Any pointers on this ECU issue? Has this happened to anyone else before?