Sidi Vertigo Air Boot ?

[rjstaaf]

When I said "untested and unproven", I was thinking in terms of tear strength and abrasion resistence.. not so much performance. If they are commonly used on track racing, then that's adequite proof for me that they function well under normal circumstances (that is, when not sliding on asphalt at 100 mph pinned under a bike on a 110 degree day).

But what about when they are crash tested? There are a bazillion ways to crash without getting useful test results on a boot. The test I was looking for was an abrasion and tear test on the material itself. Here are the numbers for natural leather (competition grade):

Pounds of force to tear: 80-110

Abrasion cycles on pavement until fabric fails: 1200-1700

I'd like to know how the Lorica used on the Vertigo air boot compares to those numbers. Couldn't find a single number. I only found propaganda like "very high abrasion resistence".

That sounds good, but I don't know the first thing about what CE approved means, and googling gets mass false positives. What's involved in a CE approval?

I don't find those statistics even relevant to boots. If you look at most well designed boots they use hard composite at the typical abrasion points like the toe, ankle, heel and calf. Personally I think you are over analyzing things. You aren't going to find some magic chart that is going to tell you what boot is best. You are going to find a lot of boot manufacturers going with Lorica. Sidi and Alpinestars are two of the best out there.

Here is some more "propoganda" to read...

http://www.motonation.com/Moty%20pg.pdf

CE is an EU attempt at standardizing product safety standards. You might have more luck finding information on it if you search for "CE Marking". Here is a good place to start http://europa.eu/index_en.htm. Not sure another standard even exists for motorcycle safety gear other than helmets.

[Das Bone]

I noticed the SMX Plus is also made with Lorica. Why do you say they protect more? And how are they more comfortable? Do they breathe better?

For one thing, they have a more substantial bracing system along the sides of the SMX+'s that negate virtually any side to side movement of the ankle area....more in line with the Sidi Vertigo Corsas. They also have an inner speed lace system that allows more of a custom fit.

I find them more comfortable for my feet.....i.e. for "ME" they are more comfortable....don't know for you?

I don't have the perfed version of the SMX's so compared to the Vertigo Airs...no, they do not breathe better for obvious reasons. There is a perfed version of the SMX's as well so my guess is that they would be very similar in terms of venting/breathability to the Vertigo Air's.

Owning both, I would say that the SMX+ is more of a "race/track boot" while the Vertigo's are more of a street boot......both great boots obviously but different. For example, you'd be hard pressed to get a pair of jeans over the tops of the SMX's while that would not be a problem with the Sidi's..........

[Guest jgombos]

I don't find those statistics even relevant to boots.

Actually, those weren't statistics, but rather measurements. There's a range because leather varies with age, thickness, and type of animal.

When selecting motorcycle armor, I always start by deciding on the material. Material is a very significant factor in both the protective qualities as well as comfort. It was actually trivial for me to decide on my pants and jacket once I ruled out Cordura and leather in favor of Kevlar.

Lorica is new to me, and I haven't been able to get a handle on its protective qualities, or get an idea of how well it breathes. I'm approaching it with caution, because all synthetic leathers I've handled in the past have been weak, like cotton. I could tear the stuff with my bare hands, and it would melt in a small low temperature flame.

If you look at most well designed boots they use hard composite at the typical abrasion points like the toe, ankle, heel and calf. Personally I think you are over analyzing things.

The fact that there are hard materials in the boot makes the strength of the Lorica less important - but it's still relevent.

If I begin to see Lorica appearing on armor that doesn't supplement with hard composites, the tear strength and abrasion resistence will be paramount.

You aren't going to find some magic chart that is going to tell you what boot is best.

I did find the following magic chart to tell me what materials are best :warranty:

http://www.motoport.com/saveyourhide.pdf

But it's incomplete because Lorica was not tested. From there, knowing how the different materials compare to each other is half the effort in assessing the overall quality of a product.

In an attempt to determine what we're dealing with here, I dug up the following warranty information on the Sidi boots:

Sidi boots are covered by a lifetime warranty on workmanship and materials. Now, we aren’t saying your lifetime, but the life of the boot, which can average anywhere from 3 years to 10 years. It depends on how well they are taken care of how much they are ridden on. Also, if the boots do fall under warranty, Motonation and Sidi will cover the repair or replacement of the boot. Crash damage is NOT covered under warranty!

Is that silly, or what? The warranty is dynamic, and lasts for as long as the boot lasts. Sounds like the most generous way of saying that there is no warranty.

[Jon28]

Well I am going to take the Sidis on a quick ride just to review their form/function but they are going back to NE. I am looking strongly at the SMX-R not the plus....the SMX plus looks like a something a space man would wear..lol. http://www.newenough.com/alpinestars_smx_r_boots_page.htm

[Das Bone]

Well I am going to take the Sidis on a quick ride just to review their form/function but they are going back to NE. I am looking strongly at the SMX-R not the plus....the SMX plus looks like a something a space man would wear..lol. http://www.newenough.com/alpinestars_smx_r_boots_page.htm

Don't know how NE will take getting a pair of boots back that you've ridden in???

The SMXR's might be good for you(menat to mention those to you) as they're suppposed to be a bit wider.

So you're saying my feet look like spaceman's :beer:

[rjstaaf]

I did find the following magic chart to tell me what materials are best :beer:

http://www.motoport.com/saveyourhide.pdf

But it's incomplete because Lorica was not tested. From there, knowing how the different materials compare to each other is half the effort in assessing the overall quality of a product.

I have to wonder where that test even came from, who did it, what was the methodology? Funny there is no mention of any of this. Aren't you even a bit suspicious of statistics like this from someone who has a vested interest in the numbers going their way? Show me something that confirms these numbers???

In an attempt to determine what we're dealing with here, I dug up the following warranty information on the Sidi boots:

Is that silly, or what? The warranty is dynamic, and lasts for as long as the boot lasts. Sounds like the most generous way of saying that there is no warranty.

I don't believe I have seen anything other than a warranty against defects in craftsmanship from any boot manufacturer.

Here is a quote from Motonation which is a Sidi distributor...

What kind of Warranty do Sidi boots have?

All Sidi products have a two-year from purchase date warranty on workmanship and/or materials. Warrantee covers the original buyer only and is not transferable. If the item in question does fall under warranty Motonation, at its discretion, will cover the repair or replacement of the item. Crash damage or improper motorcycle starting procedures are NOT covered under warranty!

Motonation reserves the right to repair or replace, at our discretion, any valid warranty claim. All warrantee claims must be accompanied by a copy of the original invoice from where the item was purchased.

In addition to providing complete warranty repair or replacement for your item Motonation also offers comprehensive repair services at reasonable prices (cost varies with work required). This added service is helpful when you experience a difficulty that is not covered under warranty.

A Return Authorization Number is required in order for us to begin processing a warranty claim or repairing your item. To obtain an RA# or discuss a problem that you may be experiencing with your boots you may call us at 619-401-4100. You will be responsible for the cost of shipping the boots to us: If your problem is covered under warranty Motonation will pay for the return freight. It will be sent UPS Ground unless you request more immediate handling. Motonation will then charge the customer for the difference between UPS Ground and the requested handling.

[Jon28]

This thread is getting out of control.....I think the SMX plus look funky....they are more protective though...but funny looking IMHO:-) And I'm only going to take the boots down the road then take'em off and em back. Well see how it goes. Too bad Sidi doesn't offer a wide to their sizing.....makes me

[Guest]

I have a pair of black perfed SMX-R's. They are pretty comfortable and afford pretty good protection. I do not think you will be disappointed in them.

[Guest jgombos]

I have to wonder where that test even came from, who did it, what was the methodology?

It would be useful if a credible, objective third party conducted the tests, and published the results. If you find such a publication, please point it out to me.

I doubt Motoport did those tests, because they cannot be performed by just anyone with a grinder and scissors. The test is standardized, and there are very specific guidelines with how to perform the test. For example, the tester has no choice about how wide the grinding wheel is, or how wide to cut the material. The equipment alone would be cost prohibitive for a mom and pop shop like Motoport, because the grinder has to be calibrated, and have a mechanism for counting revolutions. I believe Motoport did their homework on what materials are favorable in their predesign phases, and were clumsy about keeping track of the source of the information that was given to them.

Aren't you even a bit suspicious of statistics like this from someone who has a vested interest in the numbers going their way?

To be fair, you have to notice that Motoport also sells Cordura and leather armor. They also advertise that their best selling jacket is made of Cordura 620, which is about five notches down from the top performing material.

Show me something that confirms these numbers???

I wish I could. I do accept those numbers, however, because it's commonly known that Kevlar is the strongest fiber known to man. [Or I should say, strongest fiber available, since some university in Texas supposedly recently invented a fiber that has 10 times the strength of Kevlar (perhaps using nanotubes); it'll be many years before we see it]. We also know that skin doesn't hold up too well on an asphalt slide, and that's the stuff leather is made of. There's only so much you can do to leather to harden it. So I'm not surprised that Kevlar (which can stop a bullet) outperforms leather.

I don't believe I have seen anything other than a warranty against defects in craftsmanship from any boot manufacturer.

Here is a quote from Motonation which is a Sidi distributor...

Where did you read that? The quote I posted from Motonation came right out of their faq: http://www.motonation.com/faqs.htm (Scroll to the bottom)

It essentially states that they only warrant against defects in workmanship and materials for as long as the boot lasts - which translates into no warranty at all.

[Jon28]

:offtopic: SINCE my thread has been hijacked I will chime in on the subject. There is a reason why m/c racers wear leather gear instead of motoports stuff. There was a study (and when I find it I will post it) done in England about abraision resistance etc etc. What they concluded was although kevelar and similar materials help up longer, they also had more resistance and drag factor, what that means is they would cause a human body to enter a tumble, vault, or fall much faster than leather. Now am I saying motorport is bad stuff.....no, but a body wearing leathers would be less likely to enter a vault or tumble. I need to post that study soon... :idea3: