JES_VFR

Lets see the next step could involve anyone (or all of the following). 1 a second pusher fan moving air out the right side rad. 2 a set of ducts that will keep the heat from the headers and the engine block from 'pre-heating' the cooling air that get flows through the rads. 3 more efficient non honda fan blade. 4 a special ambient temperature sensitive black box to alter the engagement temp of the left fan. 5 custom radiators. ps do not forget the locktite in the gluestick form for the nut.

You, and everyone else are welcome. As far as the fan not being able to cool below a certain point under load and/or ambient conditions, I have seen that as well (and reported it). However these were conditions that prior to my changing the blade would have had the bike up in the 240 range and me searching for a way out. I have been looking at more ways to cool the VFR and have a few ideas, but as Vern points out, the heat has to go somewhere and unfortunately its going to have to pass close to you guys the riders. And by that I mean either out the left side and past your leg or up along the left side near your clutch hand, or out the back under the naughty bits. That is just the facts when it comes to riding in the summer heat, the engine heat has to go somewhere? So until I get the next step sorted out, try and stay cool

Yeah that's pretty much the problem right there. Install the new blade and be happy.

UPDATE The fan fits the 6th gen's also. Mother Honda finally delivered the wiring harness for a local VFR owners wiring harness recall, so we got the bike in and on the lift. to quote the tech "it fit as good or better than that screwed up original fan" (gee, can you tell he doesn't think much of the suck in honda fan designs!!!). Anyway the bike has been cycled a couple of times in the heat soaked and mostly still air of the one shop bay, so we know that it works. I was hoping to get a shot at test riding it but we were to busy. So there you have it folks. The VTR fan works on Vtec bikes too!!!!!.

You don't have to do any of that. Flipping the fan blade won't help the direction the air flows, it will still flow the same way. Reversing the polarity of the motor would change the direction, but even Dc motors like the ones used in the fan's are designed to turn only one way best. I know that there are two VFR owners right now about to try the VTR fan blade. One has his his bike at the dealership I work at waiting for Honda to cough up a recall wiring harness. The other one is a regular on another forum and will let me know in the next couple of days how it works out for him. I think they are both going to find success, but I'm going to be cautious and wait to see.

No the plastic is fine on the left side. For what it is worth, I have held my hand down in front of the outlet when the fan is running. There is plenty of heat coming out, I mean I would not want to have to hold my hand there for an extended time, but it is not near burning temps. I have not had time to borrow my buddies infared temp gun to take some measurements, but will soon.

Furnace testII. Time 16:25 EST Ambient temp on bike's ambient temp sensor - 105 F. Ambient temp according to stick on 'instant' read thermometer - 108F. Humidity was very high. It took the bike all of 10 seconds to register a 100 temp and about a three minutes to hit 180. For the first time ever I pulled out of the lot at work with the bike fully up to temp. Ripping over the bridge and carving the exit ramps at 60+ speeds brought the temp up to 200, where it stayed until I stopped three blocks from home. The temp shot up to 228, before the fan could be heard to engage, where it stayed until I got moving again. Then in the couple of blocks to get home (and at a speed of roughly 30mph, the temp dropped to 210. It shot up to 228 again as I pulled up to the garage and manually opened the door. I backed the bike in with out the temp dropping. The temp of the bike very slowly came down to about 224, but then in the heat of the garage it did not drop futher. I again checked both the ambient thermometers and got readings of 111F and 112F. At that point I turned on the big fan I have in the garage to move air and opened the back window. After several minutes, the sweat on my arms and face started to cool and the temp of the bike started to fall. It dropped to about 215 then started to climb right back up to 224. I watched this cycle about three times in 25 minutes and finally realized that I better get out of my gear and cool off. Anyway, I think that the bike fan is working great as long as the ambient air can cool. When it was in the mostly closed space of the garage, it rapidly staturated the mostly stagnant air in the building and therefore was unable to further cool the system down. So again I think was a great mod. In them mean time I have to replace one of the window air conditioners now as it died today in the noon heat.

Well that is not a US market sensor so part of the $54 goes to importing it. I don't think that will cure cooling problem, it will just make the fan run a whole lot more.

Well I gave this the 'oven' test today. I had to ride through center city Philadelphia to King of Prussia, where my credit union is. That meant that I got off the Ben Franklin Bridge, onto Vine Street Expressway 'aka the canyon or the oven' and then took the Schuylkill Expressway "aka the Surekill pressure cooker". It took me 48 minutes to go 2.6 miles with the traffic snarl on Vine Street. Over onto the Schuylkill until I was passed the ramp for the Philly Zoo. When I first came down off the bridge the coolant temp was 185, ambient temp displayed on the panel was a lovely 75 degrees and the contact reading strip thermometer read 68 on my tank (I had just filled up like 5 minutes before). As soon as I crept down into the Oven of Vine street, the external temp was 89 degrees, the coolant temp shot up to 228, the fan clicked on, I instantly sweat soaked the clothes I had on under my gear, on the tank I got a 70 degree reading. A big step-side delivery truck cut back in front of me and I don't know what he was carrying, but the heat that was radiating from the truck was like standing right in front of a open oven. About two minutes later the coolant temp is 235, the external temp on the panel is 93 an creeping up, my tank still only reads 72. At that point I opened my flip face helmet drank half of one bottle of a 'my-ade' slushie, while I tried to guess how far back I could hang from the truck without having any more BDC's cut in on me. Mentally I started reviewing how many more bottles I had to drink and how far behind I probably already was. I looked down and noticed that my very worn riding boots were leaving tread impressions in the expansion joint strips. By the time I finally crept past the Philadelphia Zoo ramp exit on the Schuylkill, I had witnessed a SUV, a Lexus sedan and some Yamaha cruiser violently overheat and finished my drink. I was starting to wonder if I should jump off the highway and get some more cold drinks, but I was satisfied with the fan mod. I know that before the mod I would have had to get off onto some side-streets to get moving air or it would have run up above 250 where the display starts to flash. Today, the temp climbed to 238 with the fan running, and yeah it was making my left leg a lot hotter than my right leg or my butt. The rate that the temp climbed was slower than with the old fan. By the time the coolant reached 238, the external temp reading was 99 and the tank was 100. As soon as I got clear of the snarl and got the bike moving above 30, the temp started to come down. In one mile it was down to 232, while the external temp was only down to 96 and the tank was still 100. By the time I got the 3.6 miles to City Avenue, the coolant temp was back down to 190, the external temp was down to 80 and tank temp was down to 89. The fan had long since shut off, Where as before it still probably would have been running. After today's ride, I'm calling this fan mod a complete success. Oh and I think that I have a 6th gen rider that is willing to be the VTEC Tester for the list. His Bike is at the dealership I work at for some service and I have another fan blade to try and fit on his bike details to follow

I know that this had been discussed before, but since I believed the direction of airflow with the factory fan blade to be the root of the problem it kind of seemed to be a moot point. I might buy one. I find it interesting that the fan is engaged when the temperature in the radiator end tank is approx 195, yet where the displays temperature sensor is its 224. It would be a logical assumption that the sensor would be placed where Honda calculated the hottest point of the coolant would be (or at least very to the hottest point). If I change the fan switch and it engages at about 176, what is the temperature going to be at the hottest point. I do know that if I install that switch, the fan will be running a lot more in traffic and perhaps even when the bike is out on the highway. And it is time for another update. Yesterday was good and hot, so of course traffic was royal mess. I was stuck idling 25 minutes waiting for the DRPA Wanna-a-be's and maintenance crews to decide to allow traffic to go through the tolls and cross the bridge. The bike hit the magic 224, then dropped to 220 where it hovered in the sweltering heat that the traffic was creating. Once the traffic started to move, I was gone pushing my luck with traffic on the secondary streets. Riding quite a bit faster than could be called safe to try and make it to work on time. I did not really take the time to monitor how fast the temp dropped, but it was only 175 when I pulled into work less than a mile from bridge (and I was really hauling). Of course it was a pretty hot day in Philly yesterday and my schedule was not helping anything either. Last night was my oldest son's confirmation, which of course I had to leave work early to attend. I got out later than I wanted since we were a little bit jammed up when I was trying to leave and had to hammer my way through the rush hour traffic. Lets just say I did not bend the speed limits on the way home, I broke them big time. The evil little voice inside my head was cheering as I blitzed the bridge, carved the ramps and pretty much screwed the risk index to the stop (well for me at least) to get home. I kept the bike wound tight most of the time, too busy dealing with the traffic and the road conditions to sweat what RPM I was turning. Anyway the bike was quickly on the fan at both of the traffic lights I had to stop at. Both times the temperature began dropping almost immediately. When I backed the bike into the garage, it was 218. Considering that I was too hot on both legs of the commute, I have to think that this fan swap is a success.

UPDATE Well the temperatures are finally getting up to summer like weather again. It was in the mid seventies yesterday morning (as opposed to 60ish) and I was running late. So the VFR was ridden hard on the way into work and actually reached 220 as I pulled into the lot (which is only 35 degrees warmer than it was all of last week). Coming out to go home at 2010 last night the bikes ext temp reading was 81 degrees, and the water temp was over a hundred after only a minute of idling. I caught every one of the five stoplights on the way home and had to cross the bridge behind a DRPA Wannabe-a-cop. While waiting for the third stoplight (Its a separated fourway with left turn lights so its long), the coolant temp hit 224 and the fan kicked on. The temp immediately stopped climbing and in a about half a minute was heading back down. It was back down below 220 before the light changed and the dropped like a rock as soon as I got moving again. This would not have been the case before with the old fan blade. Cruising down the boulevard the temp was 185 (not 227-8 and climbing) and it did not get enough time to rise back to 224 at the remaining two lights. It did rise to 224 when I stopped at my garage and dismounted to open the door and turn on the light. As I backed the bike in, I took a moment to watch the temperature. Ext temp was reading 78 degrees and there was no breeze at all, so the bike fan was the only air mover. The coolant took just shy of three minutes to come back down to about 218 and shut the fan off. Before this the temp would have just climbed until I switched it off. I did get sometime to look through the fiche at work. I used a 2001 VTR fan which is common to more than one year VTR. It will also fit on the motor shafts of VTEC VFR's and RC51 cooling fan motors. Now my fiche does not show fan diameters or shroud dimensions so I cannot say if it will fit 100%, but it does look promising for these applications as well. the fan will be noiser than the stock sucker. That is simply because the noise a fan makes follows the air flow it generates and so the noise is pushed out with the air instead of pulled in and buried against the engine.

do I see bar mounts on the triple??? I take it you are not going to use clip ons??

I just used the part number for a 2001 vtr, but I believe they are all the same. I'll check in the morning

I've heard this argument repeated too many times, and it's imperative that people realize how short-sighted it is. Coal-fired power plants need to be replaced with renewable sources. The U.S. power grid needs an overhaul. Storage of DC electricity (generated by wind and solar) at sub-stations within the grid needs to become widespread. The technology is already here, but the political will is lacking. Think of it this way: Sucking the last drop of petrol from the ground so we can continue to pollute with 50 million cars is much less palatable than moving pollution production to a single site while we work out how to clean up the power plant. I imagine a mixed solution. EVs for commuting/city use, and plug-in hybrids for long trips. Urban air pollution would plummet to a tiny fraction of what it is now while eventually even our power plants become non-polluting. Hey don't get me wrong, we very much need to resolve our electric generation issues. Coal and natural gas plants need to be replaced with other sources. My only point was that until they are, even this bike will not be a ZEV, The pollution will just occur external to the bike. There are too many scaredy cats when it comes to Nuclear power plants, but that is only because of the problems with the current system. I remember the Three Mile Island incident, since I pretty much grew up downstream, yet I later realized that there were three other plants in the area that operated without any known problems. I guess what I disagree with you on the issue of what should come first clean electric generation or electric powered vehicles to use it. Yeah sure we could built all these great ev cars, trucks, buses and bikes, only to choke to death on the coal fired plants smog. This is just another example of the infrastructure issue that the next transportation fuel source will have to overcome.

Cool running today, no really it was 57 ambient on the commute in this morning and so I barely got the bike to 165F. And the ride home was 65 and very gusty so it was only showing about 189 when I shut off in my little garage. I'm trying to clear the morning schedule tomorrow to get a real ride in and get some real readings on cooling conditions.

NOOOOOOO!! Not A VFR!!!!!! AAAAAAAARRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! <stifle emotion> Okay, I really really don't like that you used a VFR for this but it is done. Now do not give up on the electric bike, I think that you are doing great and have put a lot of effort in the planning and design. You are approaching this as a system, not just a "RG" conversion. I agree that we as a nation need to break way from our gas dependency. And I believe that we all have to do something very extreme when it comes to resolving issues of emmissions. But I cannot agree that this vehicle is going to be a ZEV. Yeah its electric, but where and how is the electricity generated. Around here its generated by burning gas or coal to drive the generators, there is no hydro power nor is there a serious nuclear presence here. I this area that bike would just be a remote polluter. Keep at it though, Make it work!!. I'm going to investigate another alternate fuel source tonight.

So wiring wise - was it a snip it and reverse it job? MD No. All Jes did was replace the radiator fan with one from the VTR. The wiring stays the same. To be very specific, All that I did was change the original fan blade for one from a VTR. the fan motor is original. the fan support is original. Mello Dude, I suggest that you go back to the top and take another look at the pictures. I took one with the VFR fan blade on the motors shaft and then one of the new fan blade sitting on the same motor. What you see is all there was to the modification. If you are mechanically skilled enough to go in and remove the radiator fan from the bike, then this swap is a no brainer.

Well I gave the standard msrp price since I got mine for 18.00 (hey, I'm a parts counter monkey, remember guys). Anyway, I have an update: Last night I actually had the fan switch on while limping along on some residential back streets last night (I had a roofing nail in the back tire and about 11 psi left). The temp was 224 when I heard the fan switch on. At the time I was creeping along at about 15mph as I was about eight cars behind some bluehair heading home from her nightly church meeting. It only stayed at 224 for a few seconds and by the time I was another block down the street, it switched off again. Oh and for the detail people. At 2230 hours last night I installed a stop-n-go mushroom plug with the pistol grip tool and filled the rear Avon to 48 psi. So today I ran it pretty hard on my way into work, but did not encounter enough traffic to get the vfr past 190F. And on the commute home tonight at 2015 hours, the indicated temp did not pass 223 until I was home, with the engine idling as I dismounted to unlock and open my garage door. Again the temp immediately stopped climbing and started to decrease. I don't think that the push/pull issue is one at all, since either way the fan motor's work is to move air through the radiator core. As for it moving hot air from the header pipes, oil cooler and cylinders through the radiator to the exterior of the bike, I'm not sure that makes a huge difference. I mean heat is being removed from within the motorcycle and dumped into the atmosphere. I don't think that it matters a hell of a lot if it is drawn from the radiator or from the other sources, those calories are removed from the bike's systems and others will have to migrate in from somewhere. What I do notice is that when the fan kicks in, I can easily reach down and feel the heat coming out of the left side. Before when it was sucking in air on that side and supposedly dumping heat out the right side, I could not feel heat on the right side. I also think that there is much less heat bleeding into the cockpit area at a stop light. I think that I need to borrow a couple of small digital thermometers to monitor the temps in these areas. I'm tentatively calling this a success.

That is the correct part number for a US market VTR1000f. The new fan is louder when running than the old one. I don't know if that is because its moving the air out or if the blades just are a different design. Did get into a little bit of traffic tonight coming home (I was kind of stuck in the right lane with a rear tire going down from a nail :fing02: :fing02: :beer: )!!!! Anyway at about the third light behind the morons who have nowhere better to drive their smoking hulks of 1960's GM crap, I hear the fan kick on. The temp was 224 flicking to 225, where it sat for a minute, then it started to go down. A couple of minutes later, the temp is hovering at 219 and the light changes, as soon as I get moving, I'm clear of the GM heatmobile and the temp drops to 200, then 196. Before it would have climbed to 230 and hung there for a couple of miles.

There are all sorts of ways to raise the boiling temp of the coolant, but that doesn't solve the issue of running hot and eventually overheating. There are coolants that can get way up past 300F without boiling, but that is not okay for a bike's engine. That is why I'm investigating the cooling air flow and a fan blade to change it from the original plan. By the way, the GL1800 have a similar "backwards" flowing fan and their owners all complained to Mother Honda about it. The GL1800's would overheat in parades and traffic. Honda did something to resolve this but I don't remember what it was (except that it was not to change the fan design). So the rc51, the VFR and GL1800's have these draw in fan designs and they also have low speed cooling issues. coincidence??? You tell me. Today was cooler than last week and I did not encounter much creeping traffic, so I cannot offer much useful test data. All I can say is that when I stopped the bike after commuting home and the temp rose to 224, the fan kicked in and the temp very quickly (compared to other times) started to come back down.

Well I hopped onto the online fiche and looked at the VTEC's fan. It also is a puller or sucker fan blade. So it also sucks the heat from the radiator back into the rest of the bike. It also looks like the VTR fan blade will fit on the Fan motor of the VTEC's but only a side by side comparison would tell. So VTEC owner's if you are running hot in traffic, you might want to give it a try.

If you mean flip the entire fan (motor and blade), I cannot see how that could be done. The space is at a premium in there and you would probably have to fabricate a new mount and shroud. Plus the motor would be very close to rad, which could cause all sorts of issues. I suppose that you could just try reversing the fan motors direction by changing the polarity of the wiring, but that seemed like a lot of work to get a very inefficient fan. besides by the time you pull the fan out and design a different solution, you could have installed the <$30USD fan blade could be installed and the bike buttoned. Back up. All I know is that my fan comes on between 224 and 225, just as it always has since new. I don't think that 225 vs 220 should make a whole lot of difference, and I don't know which way the VTEC fans 'attempt' to move the air. I do know that I have heard this from other VFR owners in this area, and the only solution before this was "get moving ASAP". I know of one rider in my area that has scrapped the factory fan all together and he just takes his chances in traffic (of course he will also illegally lane split to keep moving). I'll keep an eye on this for the next few days, and report my findings.

I was, we hit 85 here this week and the VFR started getting mighty toasty in stop and go traffic. I have bitched before about the stupidity of Honda's puller fan design on the left side rad. For me the scenario is something like this. If I'm cruising around at more than 20 mph, my water temp is 195 or less. As soon as I get into stop and go driving, the temperature will begin to creep up. It will go up pretty darn fast if I'm stuck behind one of the city buses or next to delivery truck where you can just feel the heat pouring off the other vehicle. Now once it hits 225 the fan switches on and the fun begins. The temperature does not go down, instead it will continue to creep up, In fact just the other day it went all the way to 230 before the light changed and I turned onto a side street so I could get out of traffic and move some air through. As soon as I get moving more than 25 mph and can keep moving that fast, the temp will come down. I have repeatedly checked that the fan is turning at full speed and even stopped to feel the heat being blown out the front of the bike. So while I was on lunch Thursday, I wandered back into the Honda parts aisle to the section where we have cooling fans. I had a halfhearted hope that I could score a replacement fan for a vtr1000f. I was basing this choice on several facts. One the fans share the same locking nut on the shaft, they were specified as the same diameter, the motors are supposedly the same size and spin in the same direction. Well we had one and since it was just sitting there on the shelf I bought it to put my own eyeball on the problem. I had nothing really important that I could do anything with this afternoon,.. So I broke out the tools to see how hard could it be? Well here are the pictures. Here is the original stock Honda fan with the locknut removed from the shaft. DSCN1189.jpg Here are the two blades side by side with the motor above DSCN1188.jpg Here is the VTR fan blade slid on the shaft waiting for me to smear some paste locktite on the shaft threads DSCN1190.jpg And another shot of the new fan inside the shroud and the old blade next to it. You can clearly see here that the VTR fan blades move the air in the opposite direction of the VFR fan. DSCN1191.jpg On pair of photos with the Honda packaging in the background so you can see and get the part number. DSCN1193.jpg DSCN1192.jpg I yanked out the pair system while I was in there and installed the block off plates from our own Toro1. I don't know about the rest of you, but the inside of the covers and the hoses was coated with a black oily film. I bet that was not good for power or emissions either! Anyway I put it all back together, then started the bike and pretty much just let it sit until it was warm enough to engage the fan. Even in the still air of the garage, the 225 temp immediately started to drop and in minutes it cooled off enough that the fan switched back off. Yeah the heat blowing back from the left side was noticeable, but it was not excessive nor did it last very long. I let it cycle like that a couple of times while I did things like lube the chain, adjust the throttle cable, inspect the welds on the sideracks, etc. After three more cycles, I shut it off and declared it a sound victory. IMO, this is how Honda should have done it all along.