magellan

Best looking Blackbird I've ever seen. How's it handle?

Lets say your car can get you 50 miles on a charge, safely. Lots of cars cruise between 300-400Wh/mile. Say thats 2000Wh, or 20kWh. Use your local utility company bill for dollars/kWh and see what that works out to be. Thats a good guestimate on cost. If its 10 cents a kWh, then 10*20 is 2 bucks. This doesn't account for charger inefficiencies, but assume that you'll get 70% of the wall power into the batteries.... so you might use 26kwh to charge it back up, and it would cost roughly $2.60.

Motorcycles and cars average below 4 cents a mile... if that helps

I hate to nitpick, but I know you meant 20,000Wh :beer:

It's also important to note that a car rarely averages as high as 400Wh/mile, especially in city traffic with its stops and starts, but to cruise at 55 mph for an hour requires a fair bit of capacity (e.g. 20 kWh). There are few electric cars with that much storage, but I've heard of a few homebrew EVs with 40+ kWh with lithium-ion. The Tesla Roadster is packing 56 kWh of carefully monitored and liquid-cooled L-Ion and is achieving 200+ miles of real-world range.

Improvements in battery technology are being driven by big investment and scores of manufacturers globally, so I can't wait to see what form factors are available in five years. I'd be happy if I could pack 10 kWh into a L-Ion sportbike with quick-release modular clam-shell packs split along the bike's centerline with highly impact-resistant composite outer shells that mimic lower fairings and numerous software and hardware safety systems to eliminate the possibility of fires or electrocution (picture something like GFCIs throughout the pack to limit voltage, triggered by the tilt sensor, anomalous discharge, or any other significant fault). Then I want to see an EV supersport race series... :fing02:

Top-level racing drives technology, and advances in safe fuel storage and efficiency are two big dividends that have been applied to petrol-powered cars. Similar advances are needed in the EV niche. Since electric drive is already gaining great respect in drag racing circles, it's time for the next big step: wheel-to-wheel endurance racing. One problem is that physics limits storage of electrons with anything near the energy density of gasoline. Even if the theoretical limits of battery storage are reached, gas still wins (but electricity will be be around for as long as the planet. Gas won't...), so in EV racing I imagine numerous pit stops to exchange quick-release packs. Should make for high drama. Wait and see, it will happen in time. :fing02:

Simply amazing Doug! Well done :fing02:

:wheel: Fantastic and one-of-a-kind.

For the sake of engineering argument on materials, what about a 5000 or 2000 series aluminum such as 2024-T3? The 7075-T6 is strong as hell, but not so great in the fatique end of the stick. -It still maybe the best, just want to here other opinions.

Tim really has his heart set on 7075. As far as fatigue, well, fatigue implies bending, and I don't see these things bending in the least except for on the rare occasions when the fork clamps are loosened. I guess I see it as a matter of choice rather than necessity either way. These things ain't gonna break... :pissed:

Can't wait to see it all in 7075-T6. Now hurry up so I can finish assembly :unsure:

Since I lowsided yesterday, I decided to go ahead and bite the bullet and repair my broken fender by cutting it down (as if I didn't have enough to repair after crashing). I didn't remove material quite as aggressively as you, Seb, and the rear I left alone entirely. I think it came out too well; I can hardly tell I did anything!

S7000359.JPG Before...

S7000830.JPG ...and after. Still needs a repaint.

What do you think?

EDIT: Weird. In the reduced size photo, it looks like the transition from the horizontal line to the one sloping downward is very sharp, but it's not. Look at the full size pic.

Wonder no longer for I am here temporarily to explain all.

I am completely satisfied :fing02: ...that you guys have too much time on your hands

I miss those endless days of tinkering sometimes - laying on the showroom floors of Ducati dealerships with a tape measure...

Owner came by one day and said it would be faster if I just bought one rather than make my own :angry:

Yet another OCD victim. :rolleyes: You guys have the nicest toys...

...the RC forks are shorter...

True. If you want enough fork to stick through the top triple that you can mount clip-ons above the triple, you need a gullwing. RC51 forks will mount without a gullwing; you just won't have much of anything to clamp to above the triple. In Tim's case, no problemo since he's using risers with a handlebar. :blink:

I'm glad I caught this thread. I'll have to do something like this. I dropped a jack handle right on the front of my fender yesterday and broke off a 4 cm chunk (whoa... :biggrin: I consider myself lucky, although I thought I was nowhere within range of the bike). I was considering whether or not to cut it back or try to repair it. Thanks to you I have the confidence that cutting it will work. I'll post up pics when done.

Don't you need a gullwing triple(like the 929/954) to keep the stock geometry?

Looks good otherwise!

The 6th gen doesn't have a gullwing top triple. A lot of guys use a gullwing top so they can mount clip-ons above the clamp with shorter-than-stock forks, but that's not an issue with bars and risers. If anyone doing an RC51 conversion wants a version of Tim's triple with gullwings and without holes for the handlebar risers, it's a reasonably easy change in CAD.

He told me that your average solar panel takes up to 9 times the energy to produce that it actually returns during its lifetime. They are horrendously inefficient at the moment, but improving slowly as pressure comes on to find alternatives to fossil fuel derived energy sources.

Your son got hold of old and severely exaggerated information. From Wikipedia, citing this source: :fing02:

Solar cells and energy payback

In the 1990s, when silicon cells were twice as thick, efficiencies were 30% lower than today and lifetimes were shorter, it may well have cost more energy to make a cell than it could generate in a lifetime. In the meantime, the technology has progressed significantly, and the energy payback time of a modern photovoltaic module is typically from 1 to 4 years depending on the type and where it is used (see net energy gain). With a typical lifetime of 20 to 30 years, this means that modern solar cells are net energy producers, i.e they generate much more energy over their lifetime than the energy expended in producing them.

Photovoltaics are great and only getting better.

I will now hold my breath for one minute.

Not to mention, knowing the nature of this country, what do you think is going to quadruple(or more) in price once we -as a whole nation- decide to switch to E-vehicles instead of gas? That's right, electricity. Leave it to a few greedy people to ruin a good thing for millions.

Sorry to sound pessimistic, but please try to convince me otherwise.

That is certainly a possibility in the foreseeable future, but not for a good while, and only if we let it happen.

In fact, now is the time to get in on all of the rebates and incentives that make the cost of a solar electricity and water heating installation (or windmill if you have the wind and available land) worthwhile. With a large array you have all the power you need for your home and sell the excess back to the grid. California has an initiative to put solar panels on every rooftop, though Germany (yes, cloudy Germany) currently leads the world in solar infrastructure. Clean power is already available. We just have to go get it.

Here in Washington State, many landowners are installing windmills, and there are vast areas of the state with such constant wind that the windmills pay for themselves within a few years and then make the owner money forever after. I don't have that kind of land, but it would be pretty cool...

The problem with the grid to date is that inconsistently generated energy from tides and wind has nowhere to go. One of the big pushes is to develop efficient battery installations to accept the incoming current and store it so the power can be metered out at a controlled rate. Already, testing of multiple solutions is meeting with great success, which will encourage use of even more wind, solar, tidal, geothermal, and

Convinced yet?

just be a remote polluter.

I've heard this argument repeated too many times, and it's imperative that people realize how short-sighted it is. Coal-fired power plants need to be replaced with renewable sources. The U.S. power grid needs an overhaul. Storage of DC electricity (generated by wind and solar) at sub-stations within the grid needs to become widespread. The technology is already here, but the political will is lacking.

Think of it this way: Sucking the last drop of petrol from the ground so we can continue to pollute with 50 million cars is much less palatable than moving pollution production to a single site while we work out how to clean up the power plant.

I imagine a mixed solution. EVs for commuting/city use, and plug-in hybrids for long trips. Urban air pollution would plummet to a tiny fraction of what it is now while eventually even our power plants become non-polluting.

Just a question on your install as I am looking to do this on my 4 gen. Have you had any hits to the muffler/tire with 2 up riding (or alone). I also have a CF hugger on mine so Im worried about that and thinking of using a tail riser for more clearance. Also curious if nay related heat problems with the undertray / seat or rear lenes. Thanks Brian

Oops, sorry for the delay. I got no notification of your post. Before I raised my rear suspension a bit I did hit the bottom of the pipe with the top of the rear tire. Since this thread was posted I've re-designed the system with a completely new undertray for more clearance. Now I never hit, even two-up with panniers and top box loaded.

S7000360.JPG

You can see here that I no longer have much room under the seat...

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...but I have lots of storage space!

Baggage.jpg

We've made some great progress. Travis gave me permission to update the thread, so I'll post up a link to his pics and the link to his site in addition to the pics posted here.

It's no small task to find a motor of sufficient output that fits between the frame rails, clears the swingarm once sprockets and chain are in place, and mounts to the existing frame with little modification. The strange thing here is that the '86 frame seems custom-made to accept this motor. All we had to do was grab some 3/8" aluminum plate and cut it to fit the available space, then mount it up with bushings to minimize resonance from the chain-drive through the main frame.

Early plate fab:

Rough Layout.jpg

Then we removed excess material and cleaned up the edges. The motor face plate is attached to the back plate with seven stainless hex-drive bolts, so it won't be going anywhere!

Mounting Plates Done.jpg

Plenty of clearance top and bottom of the swingarm:

Swingarm Clearance.jpg

Mounted up:

Motor in the Bike.jpg

And Travis with his dream bike...

Proud Owner.jpg

Next week we'll get the battery trays installed, and within another week of that we'll be road testing!

Ever since having Lasik surgery on both eyes blue light at night is annoying. It's like my eyes don't want to focus and I have to force them to. Weird but true. So this mod is likely out for me. Pretty cool though...

Blue front fender ?

Might actually be overkill on the blue. The bike was already a beautiful pearlescent color (doesn't show in pics), so the blue is really supposed to be an accent.

Signals will be GSXR mirror/sigs very soon.

Well, George let me act as his photog today, so here are pics of the final results. I love it. Pics don't do the color scheme justice.

S7000677s.JPG

S7000681s.JPG

S7000679s.JPG

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S7000682s.JPG

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It's all done now, and it looks completely amazing in person. I won't steal George's thunder, though. Hurry up and post some pics, man!!

Haha, George, you just couldn't wait to show it off could ya?!

It'll all be back together on Saturday, and it looks even better in person. Everything blue is powder coated.

all the parts are off the shelf, controller, batteries, contactor, DC-DC converter, cable, gauges...

If only someone would sell us a hundred complete bikes sans engine and fuel systems, we could build these all day long. Electric Motorsport did until Piaggio stopped selling Derbi MCs in North America. There's a lot of room for improvement over what these guys have been selling, though. For example, the motor Travis is using would stomp the one in the Electric GPR sold by Electric Motorsport.

I went downtown today, we'll start mocking up some motormounts for the new DC motor. I'll at least have 4 of the batteries hooked up to stroll around the parking lot within the next few weeks if all the parts get ordered and shipped on time.

I'll try not to step on Travis' toes here. This project is all his, but I met him down at the shop last night and checked out the bike. It looks like I get to come down and 'hand him wrenches' while he mocks up packaging and builds brackets and racks for the motor, batteries, controller, and charger. He even has an idea for a generator in one "saddlebag" and fuel in another for a range-extending hybrid. The cool thing is that much of the technology is out there already. It just needs to be put together. Vectrix is getting close with this.

Give the industry 5 more years and you'll see a bike with some sort of electric drive that we'd all enjoy riding.

More power to you. I live in Portland too and own a 1994 US Electricar Prism. I've thought a great deal about electric drive for motorcycles. I even bought a Honda Elite scooter to convert before I bought the car. There are definitely great things to come with electric vehicles. If I had a clean sheet of paper for a motorcycle design I'd be going diesel-electric hybrid with the diesel serving solely as a generator. Think of the range!

There are so many engineers here at VFRD I would think your project should generate at least some excitement. Definitely limited in range though, so I'm sure you won't stray much beyond city limits. Why not go with L-Ion?

BTW, for those who believe vehicle emissions are are insignificant contributors to global warming, I suppose it's your right to deliberately mislead yourself, but please read this before commenting here.

EDIT: Just checked out your site. Should have known you were working with Synkromotive :thumbsup:

Man, I read the thread title and got all excited about new forum moderators. Imagine my terrible disappointment... :P

fake Old Navy underarmor

sweatpants

fleece balaclava

Rev It pants with liner in

Tourmaster Cortech with liner in

Powerlet Proform heated gloves

Gerbing socks with top elements only

still need overgloves and rain booties

I just bought the heated gloves and a dual temp controller from Powerlet at the Seattle MC Show, then meandered over to the Gerbing booth to buy socks (since Powerlet doesn't make 'em yet), where I learned that I had saved $30 by getting the dual controller from Powerlet. Sweet.

My legs and core never get too cold as long as I layer up properly, but hands and feet were bitterly cold last March riding in a Colorado sleet storm, even with the "water-proof" boots and gloves I had then. HA! They didn't let any water escape... <_<