sfdownhill

Thanks ducnut - that's a relief to hear. It sounds like you have connected the pink speed wire for speed/gear sensing, correct? Have you also connected the temperature sensor input to the PCV? PCV clearly offers significant advantages, but if it presented any headaches/delays during the dyno sessions, it would quickly lose favor. I'll get the PCV installed and test run early next week.

Hi sfdownhill, Thank you for your donation of 25.00 USD. We look forward to improving the forums with your donation. Thanks VFRDiscussion

Gig, I like your approach - did a couple circumference calcs and it makes sense. When you say you slightly opened and closed the ends, did that allow you to insert one end into the other, thereby eliminating any gap and possible leak point?

Hi JZH - thanks for adding your input. Your experience with 5th gen and PCV is one of the tales that worry us, because you definitely know your way around a VFR, and if you couldn't get it to play nice, it doesn't bode well. We have had the same experience as you when speaking with/emailing Dynojet; "What do you mean it doesn't work correctly? Of course it works correctly. No, we don't have any application notes or data suggesting there may be an interface issue between the OEM ECU and the PCV. Do you have any other questions that I can not help you with at this time?" MS - love the workaround you developed to identify gear selection! I picture you in full kit, laptop strapped to the tank bag on your 5th gen [Talk about distracted riding], ripping around in one gear at a time then stopping to tell the PCV "And that was second gear," before moving on to third. I'll ping our dyno tech and confirm that he'll be able to perform gear mapping during our session. The PCV should arrive by Tuesday and I'll connect to it and see which version firmware it has. Perhaps we'll get lucky and it will have a version comparable to yours, AND that firmware will be compatible with current Dynojet dyno software.

Yessir Voided76! And it appears you and I are almost neighbors - I'm in north SD county [Let's ride some time - I'll PM]. Your collection of assorted oomph-adding devices for the 8th gen would make an interesting test bed for tuning the new headers to the motorcycle's particular characteristics. At this time, Wade is focused on test fitment of the 5/6th prototype, dyno testing and moving into the first production run of 5/6th headers. It appears that a second run of 8th gen headers could very well be phase 2, but until testing of the 5/6th gen is completed and production underway, it's unwise to forecast timelines. Wade has expressed interest in prototyping the 8th gen for testing, but he is disciplined and his process is to focus on one project at a time, through completion.

MadScientist, can you please expand on the 5th gen 'internal gear indicator', how to calibrate it, and how a PCV receives this data? I was under the impression that our beloved 5th gens have no means of keeping track of gear selection other than neutral. Love to learn otherwise.

Thanks MS! I love the smell of empirical data in the morning...smells like...victory. (pardon the Apocalypse Now paraphrasing) Sounds like a possible course of action would be to install the PCV well in advance of the fast-approaching dyno date (Jan 26), road test it with a zero map, then with a map from the Dynojet website, and see how she rolls. We’re still open to additional input, data points, suggestions, or warnings.

Can a 5th gen be made to run well with the Power Commander V? Duc2V4 and I would like to reemphasize our request for examples of or hearsay about any 5th gens or 5th gen power plants running happily and performing well with a Power Commander V. We will have a Power Commander IIIUSB and a Power Commander V on hand for the dyno testing of the prototype header, but will only use one or the other for all baseline runs and test/tuning. At this time, all our research indicates that the PCV causes problems with basic rideability on the 5th gen. Though the PCV offers finer tuning across more parameters, it would be counterproductive to waste $125/hr dyno time getting the bike to run right. Thanks for any input.

Thanks Seb - PM confirmation sent.

I messaged Delkevic too, but I made the mistake of telling them I had a VFR800 - their response was “use the 41mm gaskets”

Cool - I’ll check out ebay’s raft’o’gaskets. It’s interesting to see you’re running a single O2 sensor on your TBR. Is that the configuration you have your Rapid Bike auto tune sniffing?

Thanks for the pointer Mohawk - I will jettison the remaining square section gaskets. The round section type in the photo you posted is the type I'm used to, mostly because that's what the VFR800 and CRF450R use as OEM. Glad I only ordered 3 of the square for testing. Do you recall if you sourced your 42mm round section gaskets from a dealer? I looked up the GSXR750 part number, trotted into the local Suzie dealer [Friendly bunch that are also the nearest Honda dealer], ordered the parts, and square was what came in. Delkevic sells round section 41mm, 43mm,, 44mm, and a few larger sizes, but no 42mm.

There are a few updates, but first for the important stuff...pipe porn sent today! The GSXR750 crush gaskets arrived yesterday, and I had a chance to measure and install/crush them today. I couldn't get the gaskets to fit into the exhaust mounting sleeve in the head, even after judiciously Dremeling at opposite sides to get them past the header stud bosses, then putting a little chamfer on one edge, hoping it would start into the sleeve - no joy. Mohawk - do you recall how you got these crush gaskets to fit into the sleeve? Perhaps some very careful high speed grinding of their edges? I was going to try using the force of torquing the header flange nuts to squeeze the gaskets into place before crushing them, but I coudn't get a nut started onto the threads. Next topic - earlier in this thread, Sebspeed, boOZZIE, and zupatun discussed passivation - chemical treatment of newly welded stainless steel exhausts. After passivation, the chromium oxide surface layer that inhibits corrosion of stainless reforms when exposed to air...YAY! Finally a component of this project that is FREE! I called a local metal finishing firm and spoke with their estimator George, who was very helpful. They use a citric acid dip to passivate metal structures. The citric acid process they use exceeds milspec, and they use it for medical stainless steel structures and many other products. I asked George if they use citric acid because it's illegal to use nitric acid/hyrofluoric acid in California, and he said no, it's not a state or regulatory issue. They get best results from it, exceeding specification and certification requirements. George said that the size of our header assembly requires a double-dip [His term, not mine, but it does make a chemical bath sound like more fun]. So treating a single header assembly would cost $110. They would consider a lower per-unit cost if greater quantities were processed, and would quote 'batch pricing' after passivating the first header. I spoke with Wade today, and we covered several checklist items: 1 - He doesn't do polishing or finishing of his products, nor does he send his products out to be passivated. 2 - He will make a midpipe to fit the new headers to an existing slipon for $50. I neglected to ask if he'd need the slipon to be shipped to him, but I'll ask him next time we talk. We are having a full system made for the 5th gen that will be used for dyno testing, and Wade will make a $50 midpipe to fit from the 98/99 headers currently on the bike to the muffler he will build, so we can do the baseline run with the same muffler that will be used for the tune. 3 - on the topic of coloring stainless exhaust systems black or other colors, like ceramic coating [As mentioned in an earlier post, ceramic coating retains too much heat which damages stainless steel], he is not familiar with any coloring processes that work with stainless steel exhausts. He recommended calling CeraKote - the big dog in the manufacturing of ceramic coating products. 4 - Regarding adding four M18 O2 sensor bungs - one in each primary - to allow each cylinder to be tuned independently; in his opinion, the intrusion of four bungs into the primaries' gas flow path would hurt performance more than it would help improve a dyno or auto tune. 5 - The connection of header collector to midpipe in full systems and on midpipes he builds will be by clamp. He has a supplier of T-bolt clamps that he describes as 'bitchin' [I'm not sure if this means the T-bolt supplier is a hot woman, or the clamps are of high quality] 6 - For 6th geners who will be using their existing slipons: Wade compared the location of the center stand stop [CSS] on OEM 6th gen headers at his shop to the TBR. On the 6th gens, the CSS extends a significant distance out from the back from the catalytic converter. It would have to extend even further back from the TBR, whose collector is further forward than the OEM cat. He doesn't think welding a CSS onto the new headers will be structurally sound. He suggested clamping a CSS onto the midpipes of existing 6th gen slipons [Duc2V4 uses this method for his 6th gen with 98/99 headers and TBR slipons]. Wade thinks there might be a possibility of attaching a CSS to some point on the cush bracket or another structure 'down there' - we will check that possibility when he gets his hands on the fitment bike.

Copy that - you are checked in as deposit received. Thank you sir.

Can Nick Gamuranes please PM me or post here and let me know what your username is so I can accurately associate your deposit with your person? Thanks

Hi Seb - I apologize; I should have reponded to your PM w how and where to place deposits. I will do so now. On another note - CornerCarver has order 5 headers, 2 of which (could be 3 - I have to check) are 8th gens. Are either the 5/6th or 8th headers you are ordering intended for him? Thought I’d pipe up to avoid a potential doubling of your intended order.

There are a couple guys on the list of individuals who placed deposits that haven't yet placed their deposits. At end of day Friday January 11, we will update the A list to accurately represent deposits actually received so get 'em in.

It can't hurt to ask if an HF/HNO3 dip is included with the basic spa treatment - we'll checkum it out. My guess is treatment and brushing or other finishing is not included at the price the header is offered. If not, it is likely that Wade knows of, or one of us can find a qualified facility to treat individual headers if so desired. Seb, in your experience, what might one expect to pay for dipping a set of headers in nitric/HL? And here is an oversight we're now addressing - a center stand stop on the header is needed for 6th gen owners who will be using their own slipons and not a full system from our fabricator. Note - we are still waiting on a price quote from him for a 6th gen upgrade to full system. He has been provided with photos of the OEM 6th gen muffler assembly for purposes of pricing a full 6th gen system. If / when a 6th gen full system is quoted, it will include a center stand stop on the midpipe. The quoted price for the new header does not include a center stand stop because we asked Wade to price a replica of the TBR with the specs listed in the OP. Neither the TBR nor our additional specs have a center stand stop, so the price quote does not include a center stand stop. I have sent a request asking what it would cost - per header - to add a small bracket to the production header that would hold a center stand stop in the OEM 6th gen stop position. Last week we delivered a set of OEM 6th gen headers to Wade's shop, so he does have an example of a 6th gen's center stand stop placement. Updates will be provided.

Hi Seb! You bring up a very good point. I have not asked Wade what finishing treatment, if any, he applies to his exhaust products. I had assumed the headers would be finished as the 3 cylinder headers shown in the OP images. I'll follow up with him. Should we specify the chemical cleaning followed by satin brush/polish you describe if he does not intend to clean or brush the headers? I did ask him about ceramic coating the headers, and he strongly recommend not ceramic coating them, because the high heat retained by the coating beings a degradation process on the stainless steel He pointed out that the TBR headers show signs of having been run lean enough long enough to begin very slight damage. The surface of the headers have a light surface roughness and coloration because of being subjected to higher than optimum heat. On a separate topic, I could use a little guidance on VFRD etiquette; would it be more appropriate to post multiple answers to multiple posts in a single post, with answers to questions/information from multiple individuals? Or is it better to continue responding with a separate post to answer each question? Thanks!

Hey JZH - we're having to segregate the 5th/6th and 8th gen headers, putting 8th gen into the second run for now. So we might not be at 15 quite yet, but it's close! Cheers!

Hey Keith - your quiver of VFRs is intriguing! You only mentioned a couple of your V4s when we met in CA. It's a relief to learn someone has finally put an 8th gen front end on a 5th or 6th gen; I've long hoped to see that. Your 5th/6th candidates have been added to the first production run and your 8th gens to the B list, which is giving every appearance of morphing into a second production run consisting of 8th gen headers. PM sent with deposit info. If you get a chance, please chime in with how your two 5th gen engined bikes that run PCVs are performing for you. Darryl and I have been researching whether to upgrade the 5th gen test bike from PC3 to PCV for the dyno testing. All we've unearthed is a few VFRD and VFRW members struggling to get their 5th gens running right with PCVs - a couple of those guys removed the PCV altogether! [If anyone else has a solid recommendation - with supporting reasons, please - whether to go PC3 or PCV for dyno testing the new header on a 5th gen, do share it soon!] And of course, Keith, we can't wait to see the build thread on the VFR track weapon you're having built!

EX-XX, you and jimv have expressed interest in full systems [me too], and full systems for 5th gen are officially available. Add $275 to the cost of header for low mount system with aluminum muffler, $325 for carbon muffler. Add $25 for high mount because of additional structure required beyond the low mount's hanging loop support. Full system includes header assembly as described, midpipe, and muffler/canister [curses and swear words - I forgot to ask if header-to-midpipe would remain clamp fastened or be spring tension fittings. I'll find out]. Wade builds cylindrical mufflers of 4" diameter - picture the dimensions of a Staintune muffler which is also 4" diameter. He has a limited amount of carbon fiber on hand, but will be ordering more at a later date. Aluminum muffler materials are not in short supply. Those interested in full systems may specify the length of their muffler. I have sent detailed photos of a 6th gen slipon and requested a quote for a 6th gen dual canister full system, but I haven't received that price yet. For 6th gen, he's leaning toward a single operational exhaust pipe and canister, with a dummy second canister to preserve 6th gen aesthetics - a la TBR.

Greg - w the amazing restorations you’ve done on those motorcycles, you owe it to yourself to tune up the fueling. It means more money, but PCV w auto tune or Rapid Bike w auto tune will take care of customizing the fueling to your specific machine. The simplest, lowest cost route would be to find a used PC3 for the VFR800 (Dynojet PC3USB part # for 1998-2009 VFRs is 101-411EX) and try a couple of the maps available free from the Power Commander website. Duc2V4 and I are guessing there will also be a fair bit of map swapping done here once dyno tuning of the new headers starts. A lot of vfrd members have very similar setups and could benefit from the same map.

Sorry to have been away - I had to get my heart restarted after hearing the cost of getting a set of pipes to AUS. I’ll run a quote from USPS and through my Fedex account and see what they come up with.

Call it 95cm length, 60cm width, and 45cm depth. If that's still too large, try 95cm length, 45cm width, and 40cm depth.