BusyLittleShop

I repeat what I asked before. Is there not room to fit a smallish tensioner pulley on the INSIDE of the BMW belt. What about close to the front pulley on the lower slack side of the belt? The belt will not be subject to reverse bending. You are so close to the allowable center distance that the tensioner will not need to deflect the belt much and therefore there will be very little wrap of the belt around the pulley. The pulley will have to be toothed.

Thanks for the suggestion but I already thought about it back in Oct... I think tensioning the belt

out would not only interfere with the rest of the bike but promote teeth skipping on the

sprockets...

Given that the counter shaft and the swingarm don't share the same

pivot tension is not constant during the full range of suspension

travel... for a chain you adjust a bit of slack as the swingarm is

level or the longest length... as the swingarm returns to it's normal

ride height position you should have the slack prescribed by shop

manual... same for a belt... the only difference is that belt run at

zero slack... in fact you place a 2 lb weight on the belt and check

the rate of deflection to archive correct tension... as the swingarm

returns to it's normal ride height position there is still a measure

of tension to insure that the teeth don't skip over the sprocket...

that tension should fall within the prescribe rates by Gates

engineering... if it don't then you're advise to run a fixed idler

pulley to archive correct tension in order to prevent teeth skip...

unfortunately for me the BMW rubber belt is not recommended to bend

backwards over a pulley whereas the Gate belt is...

You know I dont quite understand both the buell and the bmw employ and idler pully? With a grand already sunk into this I think I would find a way to make it work

Thanks HS for the feature post status...

Buell employs an idler pulley whereas the BMW don't... Buell belt can run backwards over a pulley whereas the

BMW belt is not recommended to run backwards over a pulley... I'll work it out because I have yet to see any

problem... however complicated... which when you think about it all the time... did not become solved...

From working on my supercharger project and designing Harley open primary belt drives, I know how difficult this process is. My question is this -- how did you figure out the ideal center distance for the 30T/76T combo?

Anyway, here is the actual PolyChain manual. Pertinent engineering data begins on page 40. If you have not yet contacted Gates, I suggest you do. It's a pain to get a hold of their engineers, but once you do, they know their stuff (I can personally recommend Jack Timmerman).

Best of luck, as you don't need to give up hope yet. :thumbsup:

Thanks for the questions Toro...

I stretched them out and measured the centers of the 110 links of

chain and the 17/43 sprocket on the milling table... then I stretch

and tensioned the belts and measured their centers... I also produce a

full scale engineering drawing as a second opinion... it would be nice if

Honda would release the engineering drawings to the RC45...

I've been working with Gate's Engineers since 1989 with my first belt

drive project... thanks but I have the engineering manuals and Mr.

Timmerman name sounds familiar...

I have yet to see any problem... however complicated... which when you

think about it all the time... did not become solved... in short I never give up...

I've even worked out a solution to run belts and change over all

gearing... if I change the gear on the crank and the gear on the

clutch that would afford overall gear ratio change without upsetting

ride height or belt tension... trick no???

aww that sprocket you brought to bubbas didnt work? Have you considered a belt tensioner?

Hiya HS... yep they are the same sprocket I brought to Bubbas

last year in July and it don't work...

I already thought about rollers... but the BMW belt is

kind of rubbery whereas the Buell belt is more plastic... the

different being you can run a roller against Buell belt but not

against the BMW belt without taking the life out of it... besides I

don't think I have the room on Mr.RC45 dense packaging...

Would it work for any generation of VFR? :idea3:

I don't think this current setup will work on any other VFR...

 

Unchain my bike... or so I thought...

Hans Renold is credited with inventing roller chain in 1880... but
here we are 127 years later and bikes are still laboring under a
steely... heavy... clanky... messy... chain... Mercy me chains are a
pain... belts spell relief... and so my belt drive conversion starts
with an engineering drawing...

Gates Poly Chain comes in 3 belt sizes... 14mm pitch is what HD
employs on their cruisers... 8mm is what I used on the VF500
Belt-0-Ceptor... 11mm is the little known in between belt but only
comes in lengths of 155T and 172T... I need 166T to make it work on
Mr.RC45...

I started with a Buell 11mm pitch sprockets and belt... a 30T up
front and 70T out back... they were machined them to fit Mr.RC45...
so far so good

 

Buell's steel 30T 11mm spocket installed on the RC45 primary shaft...

Buell's aluminum 72T 11mm sprocket installed on the RC45 axle...

 
Ideally I needed 628mm between centers as evident with Mr.RC45's 17T
43T 110 links of chain prove to show...

But when I added the Buell 30T 72T 155T setup it measured 561mm
between centers... 67mm too short...

Next I ordered a 172 tooth belt from BMW but with the Buell sprockets
the BMW belt was 664mm between centers... 36mm too long...

 

Maybe if I machine my own 76T sprocket so I started with a 20lb block
of 7075 T6 Aluminum...

After the teeth were cut by RCD Engineering the block was down to 10
lbs at this stage...

After milling the spokes using only hand eye coordination it was down
to 1 lb 13 oz...

Now with the Buell 30T sprocket 172T BMW belt and 76T home made
sprocket the distance between centers was 651mm... 23mm too long...
because of the single sided swing arm I limited to 20mm adjustment so
I knew it would be close... how close??? less than 3mm or .118
thousands of an inch separates success from failure...

I have failed to unchain Mr.RC45... not that I didn't come close... I
came within 3mm of enjoying a light weight... maintenance free...
snatch free... lubeless belt drive system... it all came down to
finding the right number of teeth in a 11mm pitch belt... and so with
only 2 bikes in the world that employ the 11mm pitch belt (2003 Buell
and the 2007 BMW 800) I have to wait for a 3rd bike to employ the
little known 11mm pitch Poly Chain Belt...

So in conclusion after $1000 dollars in parts and a custom 7075 T6
aluminum sprocket consuming over 30 days worth of machining... I have
NO joy to report... in fact I'm devastated and sad... not to mention
Gates Rubber wants $65K for the mold of a custom 166T 11mm pitch
belt...

Mock up

 

 

 

Does anyone see some reason why I should not switch to Mobil 1 V-Twin 20W-50 4-cycle motorcycle oil in the VFR? I would like to switch to Mobil One Racing 4T, 10w-40 fully synthetic, I am running standered oil now and would like to switch to synthetic, after reading articles on motor oil, I "should" be able to get better performance out of a synthetic oil but have not found an article on if I can switch from standered oil to syntheic any input?

Sport Rider Oil Test is a informative article on syntheic oils...

Part 1

http://www.sportrider.com/tech/146_0308_oil/index.html

Part 2

http://www.sportrider.com/tech/146_0310_oil/index.html

While on oil, I love seeing those gooses who insist on giving their throttle (or pedal) a good blip then shutting the motor down before the revs start to drop. What's with that? Washing the cylinder walls down with unburnt fuel... you can imagine the accelerated wear on start-up.

I'm familiar with accelerated wear on start up if the oil viscosity is too thick and it takes more time

for the oil to reach the crank and lift it off off the main bearings but in these modern times of

micro managed fuel I doubt there's enough unburnt fuel to create a problem... what evidence do

you have to support your warning???

...also, before this thread goes tankslapping and gets closed... How to choose the proper viscosity of synthetic oil? The service manual recommends 20W40 or 20W50 for temperatures above 32F (which is all we get here in Florida), is that what I should use? Or are there different rules for synthetic oils?

Viscosity is one property of oil that the owner has some control of. Using the proper grade

(viscosity) of oil for the ambient temperature conditions is an essential criteria for long engine

life. The engine will not give you good service life if you use 50 weight oil in 40 degree weather.

That's way Honda can recommend a 10-40...

The viscosity of oil increases rapidly with pressure. Viscosity increase with pressure is of great

importance because it keeps the lubricating oil from squeezing out from between highly loaded

surfaces such as gear teeth.

This increase in viscosity with pressure is expressed as the pressure viscosity coefficient. For

example, lubricating oil at 300,000 psi has the same viscosity as nylon. At these pressures, the

oil film becomes sufficiently viscous to deform steel elastically. This type of lubrication is called

"elastohydrodynamic lubrication".

There is no "ideal" viscosity. Motorcycle oil must act not only as a gear lubricant, but also as a

journal lubricant. The oil must operate at high temperatures within the ring pack and at lower

temperatures in the gear box.

Since oil viscosity influences fuel consumption, auto makers, for example, desire lower viscosity

oils. Lower viscosity oils mean lower film thicknesses and more wear. The proper oil viscosity for

the engine is a compromise. Everything wouldn't be too bad but the oil's viscosity changes with

temperature.

Ideally, motorcycle oil should have the viscosity of a 10 weight oil at low temperatures and the

viscosity of a 40 weight oil at high temperatures.

The reason Honda's shop manual recommends oil viscosities in the 10/40 range is because of

superior tight bearing clearances. Using thicker oils will interfere with oil flow and the oil

pressure will increase.

That's a lot of BS Larry, do you have an English version of what all that crap was trying to say? :blink:

What's it saying in your words? :unsure:

Thanks

You're welcome... this is where ScootR would come in and translate my

techno babble with don't worry about the polymers... like even if they do

shear they still work to thicken your earl...

Agreed, but these "C" category oils have extremely high anti sheer characteristics that should work well in or gear boxes, No?

True but even if the polymers shear they still work to thicken the oil...

Polymers are exposed to two major degradation processes in the engine:

mechanical or shear degradation and thermo oxidative degradation. All

polymer-thickened oils experience a loss of viscosity at shear rates

corresponding to those existing in engine bearings. As the coiled

molecule enters a zone of high velocity gradients, it deforms. This

lengthening of the molecule allows more base oil to flow past and

the oil under high gradient shear loads experiences a viscosity loss.

Upon passing through the velocity gradient, the molecule regains

its former coiled state and the viscosity of the oil recovers. All

other things being equal, the higher the molecular weight of the

polymer molecule, the more temporary shear loss will occur.

Complete alignment of the molecule in the shear zone cannot occur

because of the counteracting entropic forces that act to retain the

coiled shape; i.e., the molecule tends toward disorder. Under severe

operating conditions such as often exist at the entrance to gear

teeth, it is possible the shearing forces acting on the molecules may

exceed the bond energy of the main chain. If the molecule is unable to

deform, the chain tears apart. This shortens the average size of the

polymer molecules and results in a permanent lowering of oil

viscosity. High molecular weight molecules (long molecules) and

molecules with weak chains have the greatest amount of tearing.

The degree of viscosity loss depends on the type of VI polymer

molecule used. Some molecules such as the polyalkylmethacrylates have

strong chains. The olefin copolymers have weaker chains but the broken

chains react with the oil and have a thickening effect. Some polymer

molecules are highly branched or incorporate dispersant side chains

which effect the polymer's ability to tolerate shear forces. The

additive engineer must therefore select a polymer type and molecular

weight that fulfills the intended purpose. Modern VI-improved oils are

adequately shear stable for aircraft engines. Straight-weight oils do

not suffer temporary viscosity loss with shear as multi-grade oils do

The viscosity of multi-grade oil in the engine will not exactly

correspond to the viscosity of the oil in the can. A lOW50 oil does

not have the same viscosity as a 50 weight oil under engine (shear)

conditions. At the oil pump, yes, but at the journal bearings where

shear forces are five or six orders of magnitude higher, the oil will

have the viscosity of a 40 weight oil. This might be more noticeable

during cold cranking where a lOW-50 multigrade may cold crank better

than a lOW oil due to temporary shear viscosity loss. Oil viscosity

does not accurately predict cold pumpability.

Thermal oxidation degradation of the polymer molecule is much more a

problem than shear degradation. During shear degradation the longer

molecules are sheared so the average molecular weight of the molecules

becomes more homogeneous. Oil viscosity loss stabilizes at this point.

With thermo-oxidative processes there is no limiting molecular weight.

The degradation process continues until the polymer is completely

destroyed. This process has a thinning effect on the oil. At the same

time, the thermo-oxidation of the oil results in a viscosity increase

of the base oil. Regular oil changes, especially under severe

thermo-oxidation conditions (turbocharging) is important.

Any decrease in oil viscosity increases wear rates and oil

consumption. If you are changing your oil at 50 hours and you notice

that your oil consumption is less during the first 25 hours than the

second 25 hours, you know that this oil is only viscosity-stable for

25 hours. You might consider shortening your oil change interval or

switch to a different brand of oil.

I'm a long time Mobil 1 advocate and it has always tested at or new the top of every category, but I recently made the switch to

Shell Rotella T Synthetic based on it's test results(always right up there with MB 1) and lower cost the MB 1 also one of the few "C" rated oils out there which seem to be good for our bikes.

My MB Diesel, track bike and VFR all have Rotella T Synthetic in them! :thumbsup:

I always advise caution when a customer ask about Shell's Rotella T... since diesels engines live

at the slow end of the rpm scale I'm not sure that the additive package is suited for rigors of an

high revving motorcycle engine... I'm speaking of the anti foaming additives that are important to

us due to the high RPMs that can cause cavitation which will starve bearings from necessary

lubrication... In order to hold cost to a minimum Shell's chemical engineer only adds what is

necessary and anti foaming additives are not important in a slow turning diesel...

I'm surprised about all the responses of folks using synthetic. I thought the manual said not to use oil with certain kind of friction additives or something, and every synthetic I've seen has them in the oil?

Antiwear additive:

These are perhaps the most discussed additives, which serve to protect the engine from

metal-to-metal wear. Common antiwear additives are phosphorous and zinc. Other antiwear

additives include friction modifiers like molybdenum disulphide (or moly).

Typically, synthetic oil contains less of this additive, or in some cases none at all due to its

naturally higher viscosity index. This is another reason why synthetics are better suited for the

wide range of temperatures and riding conditions associated with motor-cycle use. Viscosity

modifiers are one of the first additives that wear out in oil, and a big reason that some

synthetic oil manufacturers claim longer service life. Since they are naturally a multigrade

product without the chemical modification mineral oils require, synthetic oils will hold their

viscosity grade longer.

Can synthetic oils cause my clutch to slip?

To answer this in one word: No. Clutch slippage is caused by many things, but the use of

synthetic oil alone is usually not the culprit. The truth is that some bikes seem to suffer clutch

slippage no matter what oil goes in them, while others like the VFR run fine with any oil. This is

most likely caused by factors other than the oil, such as the spring pressure, age and clutch

plate materials. If you have a bike known for clutch problems, you may have to be more

selective in your oil choices. Moly is often blamed for clutch slippage, and it can have an

effect-but moly alone is not the problem.

Quote Mark Junge, Vesrah's Racing representative, who has won numerous WERA national

championships using Vesrah's clutches. He said that in his years of engine work he has yet to

see a slipping clutch that could be pinned on synthetic motor oil. Junge felt that nearly every

time the clutch was marginal or had worn springs, the new oil just revealed a problem that

already existed.

Nice mod... will our bikes ever be done???

I'm modifying a set of NC35 4 1/2" lens to fit Mr.RC45 new QB Carbon fairing...

When motorcyclists discuss engine oil, they quickly polarize into two groups. There are those who

think all oils are basically the same, and that anyone spending more for premium oils is wasting his

money, and there are those who feel there is a difference and are willing to spend the money to get

the best product available. However, both groups share a lack of scientific information allowing

them to make an informed decision. To offer some insight into this heated topic and help you

determine which oil is right for you, we've decided to delve into this outwardly simple-but very

complex-product. In Part One of this two-part series, we'll dissect the real what, how and whys of

motor oil.

The first thing you need to know about motor oil is what it does for your engine. Motor oil

actually has several purposes, some of which may surprise you. Obviously, lubrication is the main

purpose. The oil serves as a layer of protection between the moving parts, just like shaving gel

does between your skin and a razor.

However, oil also acts as a dispersant, which means it holds damaging stuff like dirt and metal

particles suspended in the oil (rather than letting them settle to the bottom of the oil pan where

they can be recirculated through the engine) so they can be removed by the oil filter. Then there is

the job of corrosion retardant. By reacting with the nasty acids created by combustion, oil actually

prevents these byproducts from damaging the internals of the engine. For instance, when combustion

takes place, sulfur molecules in gasoline occasionally combine with air and water molecules, forming

a vile brew called sulfuric acid. Left unchecked, this acid will eat away at internal engine

compounds. Good oils, however, contain enough of the right additives like calcium, boron or

magnesium to neutralize these acids.

Cooling is another important factor. Oil serves to cool hot spots inside an engine that regular

coolant passages cannot reach. Since coolant usually only deals with the hottest parts of the

engine, like the cylinders and cylinder head, there are many internal engine components that depend

on oil for cooling as well as lubrication. For example, the transmission and clutch rely heavily on

oil to regulate temperatures, since excessive heat expansion can change tolerances and cause

clearance-related problems. Another area that uses oil for cooling purposes is the undersides of the

pistons; with pistons becoming thinner for less weight, yet dealing with ever-increasing compression

ratios, keeping the piston assembly cool is vitally important. Parts such as these can expose oil to

extreme temperatures, so this is one reason that thermal stability is so important for motorcycle

engines. We will do a specific test in Part Two to predict the oils' ability to survive in extreme

heat.

These three oils have the proper JASO label, which shows they have tested and passed the JASO

certification standards. The MA standard is for high friction motorcycle applications, so you'll

know the oil is specifically tailored for use in your sportbike-not some econobox car.

Who is the API?

The American Petroleum Institute (or API) was established in 1919 as an industry trade association

with one of its goals stated as "promot(ing) the mutual improvement of its members and the study of

the arts and science connected with the oil and gas industry." Today, the API impacts the consumer

market through the development and licensing of engine oil industry standards. On most oil

containers, you will find a small circular label that says "API" along with letters like SG, SH,

etc. Each of these letters represents a very complex set of specifications and tests that have to be

met in order for an oil to carry the API designation. When you see an oil with the API symbol, this

means the company has paid a license fee to the API, and in turn the API has tested its product to

ensure it meets the applicable standard. If the API grades are simply listed on the bottle without

the circular API symbol, this means the company claims to meet the API standards, but has decided

not to obtain API licensing. This process is very expensive, and therefore many smaller producers

choose not to be members, even though their products may be good enough to pass.

This is the proper API "donut," which signifies that the oil manufacturer has paid for and

successfully passed the API standards test for SL/CF designation. These standards/designations

change constantly every few years, as the auto manufacturers struggle to deal with ever-stringent

federal fuel economy and emissions standards.

Every few years the API releases a new standard that is often specified by auto manufacturers, with

the changes usually aimed at achieving lower levels of friction to obtain higher fuel economy, and

to deal with other emissions-related issues. This is a never-ending battle in the automobile

industry, as stricter federal emission and fuel economy standards are being imposed on automobiles.

The API works with the auto industry to ensure that the oils are doing everything possible to reach

these goals.

The motorcycle industry followed the ever-changing API service designations until a few years ago,

when the SJ designation lowered maximum levels of certain additives used to reduce metal-to-metal

friction. (The latest API designation is SL.) Specifically, the maximum allowable phosphorous

content was lowered from 0.12 percent to 0.10 percent due to its negative effect on some catalytic

converters. An engine burning oil will pass this phosphorous through the exhaust system, resulting

in damage to oxygen sensors and catalytic converters. Since the EPA requires all emissions-related

parts to be covered under warranty for seven years, this was a major motivator for manufacturers to

meet the new standard.

Who is the JASO?

The motorcycle OEMs felt that lower levels of phosphorous and the introduction of more friction

modifiers (aimed at higher fuel economy in cars) was not in the best interest of motorcycle engines.

Since phosphorous is an important antiwear component, lower levels could reduce the ability of oil

to protect transmission gears, since motorcycles share engine oil with the gearbox. Plus, added

levels of friction modifiers could cause problems with slipping clutches, as well as less than

optimal performance of back-torque limiting devices that lessens wheel lock-up on downshifts.

Note that these labels list only the API and JASO standards in text form without the proper labels.

This means the manufacturers claim their product meets or exceeds both standards, but haven't paid

the fee for licensing (and testing). Note that the process to carry the official labels is very

expensive, so smaller oil manufacturers may choose not to obtain licensing, even though their

products may pass the tests.

Rather than continue to rely on specifications dedicated to automobiles, the Japanese Automotive

Standards Organization (or JASO) developed its own set of tests specifically for motorcycles. JASO

now publishes these standards, and any oil company can label its products under this designation

after passing the proper tests. JASO offers two levels of certification, MA (high friction

applications) and MB (low friction applications). JASO requires that the entire product label be

approved before it can carry its label. If a label does not have a box with a registration number

above the MA or MB lettering, it could be nonapproved oil whose manufacturer claims its products

meet JASO standards when it may not have actually passed the tests.

These standards also include a test specifically designed to measure the oil's effect on clutch

lock-up, as well as heat stability and several other factors related to motorcycle engines. Our

advice here is pretty simple: Read your manual, and if it calls for an API SG oil, use that. Don't

substitute a higher API designation oil like SL, because it will contain less of some additives like

phosphorus, and it may contain other additives that will yield higher fuel economy in a car but

could cause slippage in your clutch. (More on that later.)

While it may not be the perfect answer, you can also be safe by selecting JASO-labeled oil, because

you will know that it has passed a bank of tests developed by the motorcycle industry. A quick look

in several 2002-'03 owner's manuals showed that an '03 Kawasaki ZX-12R and most Hondas were the only

sportbikes in our shop carrying a mention of JASO.

What Are Base Stocks?

Motor oils start with a base oil mixed with various additives. These base oils often account for

approximately 80 to 90 percent of the volume, and are therefore the backbone of oil. Everyone knows

that some oils are petroleum-based and some synthetic, while others are labeled semi-synthetic. What

does all this mean? Well, not as much as it used to, because the lines are now blurred in the case

of synthetic oils.

For our purposes, petroleum oils are the most basic and least expensive oils on the market. They

are created from refined crude oil and offer good properties, though they are generally not as heat

resistant as semi-synthetics or full synthetics. On the other end of the spectrum are synthetic

oils. A synthetic oil has been chemically reacted to create the desired properties. Semi-synthetics

are a blend of the two base stocks.

The API groups oils into five major categories, each with different properties and production

methods:

Group I: Solvent frozen mineral oil. This is the least processed of all oils on the market today

and is typically used in nonautomotive applications, though some of it may find its way into

low-cost motor oils.

Group II: Hydro-processed and refined mineral oil. This is the most common of all petroleum oils

and is the standard component of most petroleum-based automotive and motorcycle engine oils.

Group III (now called synthetic): The oils start as standard Group I oils and are processed to

remove impurities, resulting in a more heat-stable compound than possible as a standard Group I or

II oil. Some examples are Castrol Syntec automotive oil and Motorex Top Speed. These are the lowest

cost synthetics to produce, and generally do not perform as well as Group IV or V oils.

Group IV: Polyalphaolefin, commonly called PAOs. These are the most common of the full synthetic

oils, and usually offer big improvements in heat and overall stability when compared to Group III

oils. They are produced in mass quantities and are reasonably inexpensive for full-synthetic oils.

Since they are wax-free they offer high viscosity indexes (low temperature pour point) and often

require little or no viscosity modifiers. Examples include Amsoil and Motorex Power Synt.

Group V: Esters. These oils start their life as plant or animal bases called fatty acids. They are

then converted via a chemical reaction into esters or diesters which are then used as base stocks.

Esters are polar, which means they act like a magnet and actually cling to metals. This supposedly

offers much better protection on metal-to-metal surfaces than conventional PAOs, which do not have

this polar effect. These base stock oils also act as a good solvent inside the engine, translating

into cleaner operation. Esters are the most expensive to produce, and oils manufactured with them

usually cost much more. Due to this higher cost, many companies only fortify their oils with esters.

Some examples are Bel-Ray EXS, Torco MPZ Synthetic and Maxum 4 Extra. Motul 300V, however, uses 100

percent ester as its base oil, and is one of the more expensive oils.

The grouping of these oils is the source of much controversy. One topic that has been debated is

what can be labeled a "full synthetic oil." In 1999, Mobil brought a complaint against Castrol for

changing the base oil in its Syntec product. They had used a Group IV PAO, but had changed to a

Group III base oil. Mobil contended that Group III oils were not really "synthetic oil" and should

not be labeled as such. After many expert opinions were heard, the National Advertising Division of

the Better Business Bureau sided with Castrol and said that Group III oils could be labeled

synthetic. Since that time there has been a lot of growth in this product type due to its low cost

and similar performance to traditional synthetics. Many traditionalists still argue that Group III

oils are not true synthetic oils.

Additives to the oil

Additives are the other 10 to 20 percent of the product that help the base oil do things that it

otherwise could not. Additives fall into several basic categories:

Detergents/Dispersants: These ensure that foreign materials in the oil stay in suspension to allow

the filtration system to remove dirt or debris.

Corrosion Inhibitors: These prevent oil from deteriorating from the attack of free radicals or

oxidation.

Antiwear: These are perhaps the most- discussed additives, which serve to protect the engine from

metal-to-metal wear. Common antiwear additives are phosphorous and zinc. Other antiwear additives

include friction modifiers like molybdenum disulphide (or moly).

Acid Neutralizers: Additives like calcium, magnesium and boron act to absorb acids created during

combustion to protect the engine. They are typically indicated by the TBN (Total Base Number). A

higher number means the oil should last longer and provide increased protection against

combustion-based acids.

Other additives such as foam inhibitors, viscosity modifiers and antirust components may also be

present in motorcycle oils. In particular, antifoaming additives are important due to the high RPMs

that can create cavitation and starve bearings from necessary lubrication in the process.

Viscosity

If you ask someone with years of riding under his belt what viscosity oil he uses, he may answer

"20W-50." All multiviscosity oils carry two numbers. In simple terms, the first number is the oil's

viscosity when cold (32¯Fahrenheit/0¯Celsius), and the other is the oil's viscosity at operating

temperature (212¯F/100¯C); the "W" stands for "weight" or viscosity, which is simply the liquid's

resistance to flow. In other words, when the oil is cold it will flow like a 20-weight, but when hot

it will act like a 50-weight. In order to overcome the natural thinning that occurs as oil heats up,

a component known as a viscosity modifier is added. This is a complex polymer that swells due to

heat, the net result being that the oil thins less.

Typically, synthetic oil contains less of this additive, or in some cases none at all due to its

naturally higher viscosity index. This is another reason why they are better suited for the wide

range of temperatures and riding conditions associated with motor-cycle use. Viscosity modifiers are

one of the first additives that wear out in oil, and a big reason that some synthetic oil

manufacturers claim longer service life. Since they are naturally a multigrade product without the

chemical modification mineral oils require, synthetic oils will hold their viscosity grade longer.

The reason the old-timer may suggest thicker oil is because in older engines with higher

tolerances, thicker oils were necessary to keep oil pressure up. Others believe the use of higher

viscosity oils results in better protection because high-performance engines are harder on oil. This

isn't true in modern engines, and using oil thicker than specified can actually harm an engine.

Internal oil passages and galleys may not be large enough to allow thicker oils to penetrate and

flow as well, which can possibly cause starvation. In fact, many race teams use the thinnest oil

possible to gain extra horsepower by lowering the parasitic losses that occur when using

thicker-than-necessary oil. The higher film strength offered by synthetic base stocks helps racing

engines survive even endurance races when running ultra-lightweight oils. Of course, these engines

are typically rebuilt after each race, so we do not suggest using a racing oil in your streetbike.

Refer to your owner's manual and use the viscosity of oil corresponding to your riding conditions as

specified by the manufacturer. The manuals often have a table with various temperatures allowing you

to select the right viscosity.

Can synthetic oils cause my clutch to slip?

To answer this in one word: No. Clutch slippage is caused by many things, but the use of synthetic

oil alone is usually not the culprit. The truth is that some bikes seem to suffer clutch slippage no

matter what oil goes in them, while others run fine with any oil. This is most likely caused by

factors other than the oil, such as the spring pressure, age and clutch plate materials. If you have

a bike known for clutch problems, you may have to be more selective in your oil choices. Moly is

often blamed for clutch slippage, and it can have an effect-but moly alone is not the problem. We

wish there was a hard and fast rule to follow, but it is just not that easy. Simply put, you will

have to try an oil and evaluate it. If you experience slippage with the new oil, and have not had

problems before, it may be the oil. The plates and/or springs could also be worn to the point that

they have finally started to slip. Simply change back to the previous oil and see what happens. You

can also check the test data in next issue's article to see if that particular oil has a significant

amount of moly. If so, try one that does not have as much moly next time.

We talked to Mark Junge, Vesrah's Racing representative, who has won numerous WERA national

championships using Vesrah's clutches. He said that in his years of engine work he has yet to see a

slipping clutch that could be pinned on synthetic motor oil. Junge felt that nearly every time the

clutch was marginal or had worn springs, the new oil just revealed a problem that already existed.

Stay tuned for Part Two: Analysis, Wear and Dyno tests

This is the first part in a two stage article, so please stay tuned to the next issue where we will

reveal the test data from an analytical oil laboratory as well as the results of our dyno horsepower

shootout, where we will have a face-off of two different products to see if changing oils can yield

horsepower gains as some manufacturers claim.

This article originally appeared in the August, 2003 issue of Sport Rider.

In the first portion of Sport Rider's oil test ("Oils Well That Ends Well?" August 2003), we

covered the overall makeup and functions of motor oil to give you a basic understanding of its role

in the performance of your engine. In this portion-the second and final part of the article-we go

into a detailed analysis and testing of 22 oils to see what makes them different from one another,

including comparing motorcycle-specific oils to automotive products. We also run a dyno test to see

if the claims of increased horsepower made by some oil producers are really true.

Spectrographic Analysis

Presented first is the spectrographic analysis of each of the tested oils. Using units of parts per

million (ppm) to show the amount of additives in each product, this test utilizes an atomic emission

spectrometer to measure the wavelength of light emitted from each oil sample as it is "ionized;" in

simplistic terms, this is similar to sticking the oil into a microwave oven, then using a prism to

split the light emitted as the oil burns. Since each element has its own light wavelength, a

computer compares each light measurement to a standard emission, and then calculates the amount of

that particular element.

We called on Analysts Inc. in Norcross, Georgia (www.analystsinc.com, 800/241-6315), to perform the

spectrographic analysis testing. An ISO-9002-certified facility (meaning their lab meets strict

worldwide quality-control specifications), Analysts Inc. has been in business since 1960, and is

considered one of the top oil-testing labs in the country. They are able to identify extremely small

amounts of metals and additives, and in some cases can detect as little as one ppm. If you send them

used oil for analysis, they can generate a metal contents report that will help you discover

internal engine problems before they occur. Most large diesel fleets use this to determine

maintenance schedules.

This type of analysis also reports the absolute viscosity of the oil, and the total base number

(TBN). The TBN is determined by measuring the milligrams of acid neutralizer (potassium hydroxide)

required to nullify all the acids present in a one gram sample of oil. Viscosity retention and TBN

are very important in deciding when to change your oil. A TBN of three or less typically denotes a

failure of the oil to absorb acids. Oils with a higher initial TBN are therefore better suited for

longer change intervals, assuming the base oil is of sufficient quality to maintain its specified

viscosity over time. The subjects of base oil quality and viscosity retention are very complex, and

are discussed later.

These elements are the most commonly discussed because they are one of motor oil's most important

components. Several additives fall into this group, including phosphorous. The maximum level of

phosphorous allowed in some automotive oils has been reduced by the new API standards, due to its

effect on catalytic converters. Zinc is another additive in this group, as is molybdenum, usually

referred to as moly. These antiwear additives serve as a back-up to the oil film in protecting

engine components. They are activated by heat and pressure, forming a thin layer between metal parts

that would otherwise come in direct contact, preventing permanent engine wear.

Looking at the graphs, it's interesting to note a wide variation in additive amounts. For instance,

examining phosphorous levels in the antiwear additive graph (remembering the API limitations) shows

that two automotive oils contain approximately 1000 ppm (Valvoline and Castrol Syntec), while the

Mobil 1 product contains 1391 ppm. The average of the motorcycle-specific oils is 1322 ppm; the

automotive oils average 1157 ppm. The Maxima Maxum products have the highest levels overall, with

almost three times the amount found in the lowest product tested. The products with the lowest

levels are Silkolene Comp 4, Yamalube and Honda HP4.

A similar correlation can be seen with zinc. The Maxima products again show the highest levels at

almost 2000 ppm, while the Yamalube and Silkolene products again end up on the bottom of this list.

The difference here between automotive oils and motorcycle-specific products is not as great,

presumably because this additive is not regulated by the API. In fact, Valvoline is the only auto

oil containing less than 1400 ppm. While the average motorcycle-specific product contains 1414 ppm,

the automotive oils average 1328 ppm-not a huge difference.

Moly is often referred to as a friction modifier, but it is actually a solid metal dispersed in

some oils. Because it has such a high melting temperature (4730¯ F versus 2795¯ F for iron), it

works great as a high-temperature, high-pressure antiwear agent. Some claim that because moly is so

slick, it can cause clutch slippage. In fact, some motorcycle manufacturers specify oil without moly

due to this problem. The moly issue is such that Honda offers its HP4 both with and without it.

Looking at the moly graph data, however, shows that even Honda's "moly-free" product contains 71

ppm. Many of the products contain less than five ppm of moly, which is the threshold measurement on

this test (meaning any amount less than five ppm will not be detected). Both Torco oils contain a

significant dose of moly, while the Maxum Ultra and Motul 300V Factory contain far less. The Mobil 1

automotive oil contains 92 ppm, while the MX4T motorcycle-specific version has an undetectable

amount. Only six of the 19 motorcycle oils we tested use moly at all. Those that do, however,

average 298 ppm. Considering that many oils contain five ppm or less, 298 ppm is a significant dose.

One common claim is that motorcycle oils have specific additives that are more suited for

motorcycle engines. Based on an average of the three automotive oils we tested, the bike oils do in

fact contain more of everything except calcium and boron. Note that the average moly content, which

is often the friction modifier of choice, is higher in the motorcycle oils than the car oils mainly

due to the three bike oils that use an extremely high moly content.

Acid Neutralizers

We charted the three most common additives (boron, calcium and magnesium) used to neutralize acids

produced inside an engine during combustion. In this category, we can see that the car and bike oils

are different in some cases. Every company seems to agree that some dosage of calcium is required.

The highest amount is Amsoil at 4843 ppm, which explains its very high TBN of 14.42. Amsoil does not

use significant dosages of either magnesium or boron, though; many other oils use both of these to

bolster their acid-fighting ability. Maxum Ultra contains only 986 ppm of calcium, but supplements

that with the highest dose of magnesium in the test at 1275 ppm. The Mobil MX4T product uses 699 ppm

of magnesium and 221 ppm of boron. Another difference between the auto and bike products offered by

Mobil is the use of magnesium. Mobil 1 automobile oil contains only 33 ppm of magnesium.

Another common claim is that the higher price of motorcycle-specific synthetic oils allows oil

manufacturers to use not only better and more heat-resistant base stocks (as shown in the heat aging

data), but also more additives. Our averaged data shows that in general, the synthetic oils contain

as much or more of each additive. Note, however, that we only tested two motorcycle-specific

petroleum oils, and results could vary with more oils tested.

Looking at overall averages, the bike oils have an average of 1986 ppm of calcium versus the car

oils' 2702 ppm. While the bike oils average 296 ppm of magnesium, the car oils muster only 54 ppm.

Since many of the bike oils do not use any boron, their average is only 96 ppm compared to the car

oils' 116 ppm. However, looking only at bike oils that use boron as part of their additive package,

the average is 253 ppm. The bike and car oils are clearly different in this category.

This photo of two oil samples before and after the heat test shows how some of the Group III

synthetics are now using better-quality base stocks. The two top tins show Castrol Syntec automobile

(left) and Motul 300V (right) before the heat test; the two lower tins are both oils afterward

(again, Castrol left, Motul right). Note the similarity in color between the oils in the post-heat

test samples.

It's pretty obvious which of these products should do the best job of keeping corrosive acids in

check when looking at the TBN. Topping the list is Amsoil, both Motul products and the automotive

oil Castrol Syntec. A lower TBN does not mean the oil is bad, it just means that the drain-interval

potential is not as great. If you change your oil every 1000-2000 miles, then you shouldn't be

concerned with this value. Others should take at least a cursory look at this category, however.

It's interesting to note a trend toward longer oil-change intervals in the automotive world. For

example, BMWs now come with factory-proprietary synthetic oil, and the on-board computer usually

suggests oil changes every 15,000 miles or so. However, BMW engines have oil sumps larger (their

2.5L six-cylinder holds seven quarts) than most similarly sized engines, as well as high-capacity

oil filters. Mercedes-Benz follows a similar plan, using full synthetic oil with a change interval

of 10,000-16,000 miles. Being the skeptical type, we tested oil from a BMW engine at 7500 miles,

only to find the oil within viscosity and all other standard values-meaning it could have been left

in longer.

Don't let fancy colors influence your opinion of an oil's quality or sophistication-some are just

dyes that quickly burn off. Note how this sample of the Motorex PowerSyn synthetic oil quickly loses

its green hue after just one hour in the heat test.

Although not the final word on an oil's overall quality, some oils showed marked

degradation in color during the heat test. Note the nasty coloration of the Torco T4R sample in the

post-test tin.

The truth is that engine oils are better than ever with regard to base stocks, as well as viscosity

improvers and acid neutralizers. If you don't have a 12-month riding season, you should add an extra

oil change before you winterize your bike to prevent that used oil (with corrosive acid buildup)

from sitting and possibly damaging your engine internals. As long as your engine isn't highly

stressed, whether through competition or extreme mileage, our suggestion is to simply follow the

change interval specified in your owner's manual, and spend more time riding and less time worrying.

Of course, this assumes that your engine is in good mechanical condition; problems like fuel or

coolant diluting the oil could mean disaster a lot sooner than 1500 miles.

Evaporative Heat Stability Test

The oil inside your engine is subjected to an extreme environment. Sure, the coolant-temperature

gauge may only show 200¯ F, but there are many internal engine parts that become far hotter. In

order to determine each oil's ability to survive in such a climate, we subjected samples to a test

commonly known as the Noack method. This test takes an oil sample and cooks it at 250¯ C (the

estimated temperature of the piston-ring area, which is the hottest an oil should get) for one hour.

Before and after the exposure, the sample is carefully weighed on a precise laboratory scale.

Because parts of some oils are unstable at these temperatures, they burn off during the test, and

that loss can be accurately measured.

The higher the percentage of weight retained (meaning less oil has burned off), the better. As you

can see in the charts, there is quite a difference between the best and worst oils. The top product

on this test is the Mobil 1 car oil at 96.1 percent. What is not so clear is that Group III oils

(synthetics processed from a mineral-base stock) like Castrol Syntec and Motorex Top Speed test

about as well as Group IV (PAO synthetics) and V (ester synthetics) products such as Motul, Bel Ray,

Maxum and Torco. This shows that Group III oils are getting better and more heat stable (i.e., using

better base stocks) for these applications than they were a few years ago.

We ran both bikes with standard petroleum automobile oil (Valvoline 10W-40) to do our baseline dyno

runs. We then drained the oil, changed oil filters and ran the synthetic oil for at least 15 minutes

to circulate it through the engine.

As expected, the petroleum-based oils such as BelRay EXL, both Valvoline oils and the Yamalube and

Torco synthetic blends are on the low end of the scale. Proving how good some synthetic blends are,

top blend performer Castrol GPS actually out-performs one of the full synthetic oils (BelRay EXS).

In general, however, the full synthetic oils are the winners here, with an average value of 93

percent, compared to the synthetic blends at 89 percent and the dinosaur oils at 86 percent.

We suggest you look at this data carefully and determine your needs before picking an oil for your

bike. While not the only important factor, heat stability is one of the top issues because most

sportbikes are tuned to the highest levels of performance possible, usually generating intense heat

in the process. Engine oil must be able to survive these temperatures and not evaporate when you

need it most.

We were as surprised as anyone that just changing oil can produce a horsepower boost. Both the R1

and GSX-R1000 posted some significant gains in midrange and top-end, and were gaining power with

every run until coolant temps got a little too hot. Before you go rushing to buy this stuff,

however, check out the viscosity retention test.

Dyno Test

Some oil manufacturers and their representatives claim that using their product will result in more

horsepower. These are special ultra-lightweight-viscosity racing synthetic oils that are said to

reduce the parasitic drag that oil has on an engine's internal reciprocating components. We decided

to put these claims to the test-an actual dynamometer test. Two of the full synthetic oils in this

test make these horsepower claims on their labels: Maxima Maxum Ultra (in 0W-30 and 5W-30) and Motul

Factory Line 300V (in 5W-30). We took two open-class sportbikes-a Suzuki GSX-R1000 and a Yamaha

YZF-R1-and ran them with common off-the-shelf Valvoline 10W-40 automobile mineral oil to set a

baseline dyno run. That oil was drained and replaced with the 0W-30 Maxum Ultra in the Suzuki, and

the 5W-30 Motul 300V in the Yamaha. After about 15 miles of running to get the oil fully circulated

through the engine, the bikes were then dynoed again.

Lo and behold, both the Suzuki and Yamaha posted horsepower gains. While not an earth-shattering

boost in power, the gains were far beyond common run variations, and weren't restricted to the very

top end. The GSX-R1000 posted an increase of 3.3 horsepower on top, with some noticeable midrange

gains as well; even more interesting was that the power steadily increased for several dyno runs (as

the coolant temp increased). The Yamaha responded nearly as well, with a 2.7 horsepower boost on

top. It should also be noted that while riding both bikes, there was a noticeable ease in shifting

with the synthetic oils compared to the automobile mineral oil. Pretty impressive for just changing

oil, in our opinion.

But before you go rushing to buy these products, it should be noted that these are racing oils,

and, despite manufacturer claims of viscosity retention performance identical to standard viscosity

oils, are made to be changed on a much more frequent basis. You should take a close look at the

Tapered Roller Shear Test that demonstrates an oil's ability to maintain viscosity over time.

Four-Ball Wear Test

With an eye toward evaluating oil's ability to lubricate under extreme pressure conditions, we

picked a few candidates and ran them through the "Four-Ball Wear Test" (officially designated ASTM

D-4172). To conduct this test, we enlisted the help of the Southwest Research Institute in San

Antonio, Texas (www.swri.org; 210/684-5111). SwRI is a huge nonprofit independent testing and

engineering firm with an entire group of people dedicated to motorcycle-related products.

This test is used to determine the wear properties of engine oil in sliding contact (such as a

piston sliding against a cylinder wall). Three half-inch-diameter ball bearings are placed in a

triangular fixture, with a fourth half-inch ball in the center (in contact with the other three)

held in place with a clamp. The balls are then immersed in the test lubricant while the top ball is

spun at 1800 rpm for a period of one hour with a prescribed load of 40 kg (88 lbs.) and a constant

temperature of 75¯ C (161¯ F). The "wear scar" on the three lower ball bearings is then carefully

measured (in millimeters) using a microscope and averaged. The smaller the wear scar, the better the

protection.

Because this test is expensive, we could not test every product listed in the spectrographic

analysis, so we picked a few we thought would reveal the most information. We chose the Castrol GTX

10W-40 automotive oil because it is a simple Group II mineral-oil product that is widely used and

inexpensive. As an example of motorcycle-specific oils, we picked the popular Mobil 1 MX4T

motorcycle oil in 10W-40. It is a moderately priced full synthetic oil (approximately $8.99 per

quart), and should represent all the technology and economy of scale that a large oil producer like

Exxon/Mobil can offer. We also chose the Amsoil Group IV motorcycle oil. Amsoil makes product claims

related to the performance of its oil on this test, so we decided to see if they could live up to

their claims.

The four-ball wear testing did not show the huge variation expected. All of these oils basically

perform the same. With any test there is some variation from sample to sample, and this data is so

close we have to call it a tie, which means all these oils in their new, virgin state do a good job

of protecting against sliding friction wear. Incidentally, Amsoil did perform up to the test claims

stated on its label.

Tapered Roller Shear Test

We decided to conduct some additional testing aimed at evaluating an oil's ability to withstand the

shearing loads present in a motorcycle gearbox (but not in the typical automotive engine). One of

the claims made by most motorcycle-specific oil producers is that motorcycles present a different

set of conditions than typical cars do, and that therefore you should spend more money to get oil

formulated specifically for this environment. The meshing of transmission gears is said to shear or

tear oil polymers over time, resulting in the degradation of oil viscosity and severely reducing its

performance. As we stated earlier, this may not be so critical if you frequently change your oil.

However, if you run longer than standard intervals, this oil property is something to strongly

consider.

The test we selected to measure this effect is officially called the "Tapered Roller Bearing Test"

(CEC L-45-99), commonly called TB-20. Recent trials have shown that this test provides the best

correlation to actual performance compared to other industry shear tests. For the TB-20 test, a

tapered bearing fitted into a four-ball test machine spins submerged in 40 mL (1.3 fluid ounces) of

lubricant at 60¯ C (140¯ F) at a constant speed for 20 hours. The viscosity of the used fluid is

measured and compared to the new/original viscosity, and the percentage of change compared to the

original viscosity is reported. The higher the number, the more viscosity loss the oil experienced

during the test.

We picked Valvoline 10W-40 automotive, Motul 300V 5W-40 Factory line, Mobil MX4T 10W-40 and Motul

300V 10W-40 oils for this test. Part of the analysis also involves the testing of a reference oil

with a known viscosity performance in order to measure the variation between tests. In our case the

reference oil had a total variation of 2.5 percent. This means that differences of 2.5 percent or

less should be judged as the same, and that these small differences are related to the test method

rather than product differences.

We also found the viscosity index, or absolute viscosity, of each sample. This is a measure of how

long it takes for a set quantity of the oil to flow through a hole at a certain temperature, and is

expressed in centiStokes (cSt). Unless noted, each sample is a 10W-40 grade.

The actual viscosity raw data test results are expressed in centistokes (cSt), the scientific unit

of viscosity measurement. However, after the percentage of viscosity loss column, we have converted

the centistokes to an approximation of SAE grade to give you an idea of how much viscosity breakdown

has occurred.

The various oils show large differences in their ability to endure this difficult test. The one

commonly available automotive mineral oil tested suffered a 41 percent loss. While this limited data

does not conclude that all mineral-based automotive oils are bad, it is definitely not a good sign.

Looking at the motorcycle-specific oils, it's notable that the Motul 5W-40 version does not hold up

nearly as well as the 10W-40 version (in fact, slightly worse than the auto oil). Motul and Maxima

both claim that their ultra-lightweight-viscosity oils would last as long as normal 10W oils.

Because we only tested the Motul version, we cannot say for sure that the Maxima Maxum Ultra would

suffer the same loss. Yet our dyno test shows that both these oils post a horsepower gain. We

consider ultra-lightweight racing oils such as 0W and 5W a special category of race products that

should be changed on a strict regimen. Before you decide to run them, you need to weigh the risk of

viscosity loss versus horsepower gains and make your own decision. Until more data convinces us

otherwise, we would stick to something more practical for the street.

Conclusions

With all this testing data (and expense), you'd think making a clear-cut decision as to which oil

is best would be easy. In the case of engine oils, however, there are too many products and

variables that go into this equation. Due to the financial reasons stated earlier, not every test

was run on every product, so crystal-clear conclusions aren't in the picture. You must weigh all the

data we have made available; for instance, the fact that some oils may absorb acids better, but may

not handle high heat as well. Or that while the four-ball wear test shows that particular automobile

and motorcycle-specific oils perform identically, the heat and viscosity shear tests show otherwise.

We did, however, unequivocally answer a few questions. For one, most name-brand motorcycle-specific

oils are indeed different than common automotive oils, even within the same brand, debunking a

common myth. Mobil One automotive oil is definitely different than its motorcycle-specific version.

The same is true for the three oils provided by Castrol, showing that both companies have different

goals when formulating their automotive and motorcycle products. Whether they perform better-despite

the data we've gathered-is still a matter of opinion. Another manufacturer, on the other hand,

appears to have selected the same additives in both of its offerings, which begs the question: Are

they actually identical and simply relabeled?

Once again, the final decision is up to you. It's your bike and your hard-earned money-so only you

can make the decision whether to spend the extra bucks for full synthetic motorcycle oil or simple

mineral-based car oil. Review the data we have presented, and select the product that is most suited

to your bike and riding style.

This article originally appeared in the October, 2003 issue of Sport Rider.

Part 1: What is motor oil really made of?

More tech stories

Hmmm.... could this have been whipped up in AutoCAD and CNC'd by a shop?

Just asking out of curiosity...the satisfaction of doing it yourself is great (though machining tools are needed in the house!)

Nice looking stuff, mmmm mmmm mmmm!

Thanks... yes it could have been Cad and CNC'd but cost the for one set would be so great that I might as

well buy the $540.00 Ohlins mounts... hand made one off custom parts make more sense because all you need

to invested in is your sweat equity...

The belt length is just right to match the factory?

Can it work on a 6th gen with some work?

More importantly, if yours turns out to be a raging success, will you consider making kits for VFR conversions as well?

Looks pretty amazing.

You got the skills, man!

Thanks... but I don't know the particulars at this point...

20 days? Did you take alot of breaks? The end result is nice.

Some breaks but a lot of the time was spent figuring out what I needed and how to go about cutting it...

You know Larry, they make Dykem layout fluid in a spray too... would've saved you a day of brushing right there! :P

Just kidding, they look great! :thumbsup:

Now about that 6th gen belt drive conversion... :pissed:

The belt drive conversion status is AWP... (A Waiting Part)... BMW needs to ante up the belt I ordered... I

may bring the whole mess down to Bubbas Laguna Seca so everyone can get a feel for the parts...

I am not worthy!!!!! Your products and dedication are wonderful! So want to help with a mirror swap for my 748S :pissed:

I'd be happy to look at the project... bring it by the Busy Little Shop sometime... PM for address...

This is my magnesium caliper mod that kicked my butt... and I needed my butt kick

because I get too cocky in the Busy Little Shop...

I started with a 10 pound block of magnesium... one set Brembo billet calipers

and my engineering drawing...

With a metal bandsaw I cut out the basic shape and then chips started to

fly on the Milling machine...

For 20 days I was a slave to the machine like in Fritz Lang's

movie Metropolis...

Compound curves require intense concentration and excellent hand eye

coordination... one wrong turn of the handles and it's crying time...

Looks just like the drawing... no???

I'm happy since they came out perfect and tip the scales at only 6 ounces

each... that's 2.5 ounces lighter than the aluminum radial mount Ohlins sells...

All in all what started as 10 pounds of magnesium ended up as 6 ounce

caliper mounts in 20 days... the fall out of metal particles coated everything...

she almost roasted her fanny... and such a sweet

one at that...)

Larry, Larry, Larry.........

You go to The Island soon yes?

You want to compliment a female on her round buttocks yes?

You expect to live yes? :P

Note then that fanny in the UK is a vulgar term for vagina... :beer:

And shagging has nothing to do really with a shag carpet (although it helps keeping skin on your knees)

Be safe!!!

Thanks for the PM Leon... as you know my Island plans have changed...

I understand "shag" but I had no idea that "fanny" was vulgar... thanks for the tip... I never wish to sound vulgar...

Thanks for the honorable mention. My install uses only 1 mount bolt and is angled so as to keep as much cooling fins as possible although this is probably not needed as they run so much cooler. Jim

You're welcome Jim... good job...

My install employs what you see but what you can't see is a second bolt that secures the bottom of the R/R

to the black plastic hugger... it's just there to steady the weight of the R/R from stressing the upper mount...

Nooo! Don't cross the streams! That would be bad!

Bad as in bike flambe... (Note this in not Mr.RC45... rather it's a pic from a female RC45 owner over in

England... and as you can guess it was one hot ride... she almost roasted her fanny... and such a sweet

one at that...)