Grum

2 hours ago, conwaychris626 said:

I changed levers months ago but I can check the wires on the brake switch in the morning 

Yep, make sure that the brake switch wires/contacts are in no way touching anything metal, eg brake master cylinder or handle bar. This will blow that Fuse! Carefully check this.

And, because its happening without touching the brake lever it would have to be the Black/Red wire of the Brake Switch that was shorting to frame.

Failing a brake switch wire short,  you will need to measure the short to frame with an ohmeter at the Fuse Load Side terminal, then start removing items hanging off the fuse until the short indication hopefully disappears.

Good Luck.

23 hours ago, conwaychris626 said:

Does the horn stop start effect it not starting?

Absolutely..........

Loss of this Fuse means No Kill Switch Power = A dead Engine Stop Relay and No power for the Starter Relay and all the EFI stuff.

It also messes with Starter Inhibitor Relays 1 and 2 screwing your Neutral Light.

And because your ECM is now unpowered there can be No Gear Selection readout, equals just a dash just as you have. And no Fuel Pump prime.

Have You in any way altered the angle of the Front Brake Switch assy OR fitted after market Brake levers?

Ok you have at least found the problem, a short somewhere. Give me some time to have a good look at the diagram. Do you have a multimeter, or a few spare 10amp fuses?

Just now, conwaychris626 said:

Yea it’s blown

Ok lets hope it was just a random fuse fail. See what happens with a replacement. Good Luck.

Ok, now Check the Start/Horn/Stop 10amp Fuse in the Left side Fuse Box, is it Blown?

OK. Have you confirmed BOTH Fuses in the Sarter Relay are definetly good, Main Fuse A 30amp and Fi Fuse 20amp.?

Again IS the Kill Switch set To RUN, its easily overlooked?

And can you physically confim you are in Neutral gear?

Really horrible, so sad to hear this. My heart goes out to all of you who knew Lance, family and friends. Obviously an extremely well liked and respected gentleman.

Certainly drives home the reality of our own fragility, ride safe everyone.

Sincere Condolences to all.

R.I.P Lance.

Hi Paco.

Further to the good advice from the Captain.

Absolutley make sure you are working with a healthy Battery and your battery terminals are clean and tight. 

Assume you are NOT hearing the Starter Relay clicking when you Press the Starter Switch? You should measure 12v on the Yellow/Red wire at the Starter Relay every time you press the Starter Switch with Ignition to On, measure this, what do you read? If this is good then you need to verify the Ground path being the Green/Red wire, through the Clutch Diode then through the Neutral Switch to Ground. refer above Starting Circuit Diagram.

Concentrate on getting your Neutral Light and a Neutral start working. Refer to the Starting Circuit Diagram the Captain supplied above.

1. Verify the Neutral Switch operation - Are you able to unplug the wiring directly at the Switch? If so put your meter into Buzzer or lowest Ohms range. Preferably place the Black meter lead on the battery Negative and the other lead on the Neutral Switch terminal. Go from In Gear to Neutral many times - make sure you have Continuity/Zero Ohms whenever you are In Neutral and NO Continuity when In Gear.

2. Using the diagram the Captain supplied, reconnect the Neutral Switch wiring and locate the Light/Green wire at the Clutch Diodes (see attached picture for Diode location). While in Neutral probe this wire again making sure you have Continuity to Ground on the wire.

3. Measure both Clutch Diode these work like One Way Valves, allowing current flow in One direction only. Select Diode mode on your meter, place the Black lead on the Light/Green wire junction then place the other lead probing the other two ends of the diodes you should measure current flow, reversing the leads should show NO current flow. Given the problem you're having you'd be looking for an Open Circuit Diode = No current flow in either direction.

See how you go with these tests to start with.

On 10/7/2023 at 12:31 PM, conwaychris626 said:

2014 vfr800 fuel pump doesn’t prime and wont turn over. Also not showing what gear it’s in just blank lines

How old is your battery?

First and foremost make sure your Battery is fully charged and healthy, any doubts, charge it and have it load checked, any good Automotive parts store will load check it for free. Battery terminal voltage is NOT a true indication of battery Capacity - it's ability to deliver plenty of cranking amps when starting. Also make sure the battery terminals are Clean and Tight.

Just curious, is your Neutral Light working? And, does the engine crank over with the SideStand UP and Clutch Pulled In? And.........is the Kill Switch set to RUN?

Let's know how you get on.

3 hours ago, mk2dave said:

It would also be great to confirm if the injectors will fire with the fuel pump disconnected.  I lean towards yes, but sometimes manufacturers try and be smarter than necessary.

The ECM has no feedback of Fuel Pump ops, flow or pressure. Provided the ECM sees the appropriate cranking pulses, and the enable logic as previously mentioned, as well as no active fault codes, power and grounds all good, then it should be firing the injectors you would think....!

6 hours ago, mk2dave said:

I am not hearing anyone suggest it may be a sensor that is stopping the injectors from firing. 

For the injectors and most likley the Ignition coils to be enabled the ECM MUST see a Ground at either B10 for a Neutral gear start (from the Neutral Switch) OR a Ground at B21 from the Sidestand UP while riding. If neither Ground is detected = Dead Engine.

So, while in Neutral, make sure you measure a Ground at B10 of the ECM. Note - the Neutral Ground goes through one of the Clutch Diodes before reaching the ECM.

Verify that you measure a Ground at B21 a Green/White wire, with the Sidestand UP.

Might be worth giving both ECM plugs a good spray of electrical contact cleaner something like CRC 2-26.

Assume you have fresh fuel, a healthy charged battery and both battery terminals are clean and tight!

Ignition Switch to On. Make sure you are measuring battery voltage, a solid 12v, at the Black/White wire of the Injectors and Ignition Coils as well as B8 of the ECM.

Try starting the bike with Sidestand UP does this make any difference?

Remove the Spark Plugs. What state are they in? If they are wet, then you may have an over rich flooded no start situation. Check that you are getting a good Spark. If you're intending on replacing the plugs (worth doing), try the NGK Iridium CR9EHIX-9 type.

Another thing worth checking is the FPR Fuel Pressure Regulator. Check it's vacuum hose, make sure it's dry and no fuel dripping from the FPR, any sign of fuel will mean a ruptured diaphragm in the FPR, dumping excessive fuel via the vacuum hose into cylinders 3 and 4.

Have you downloaded the Service Manual? 

On 9/24/2023 at 6:17 PM, joe678 said:

Yeah it is pretty crazy: First I had problems with powerless and unclean Motor operation under 4000rpm (via push start). Starting via starter switch operated the crank shaft, but somehow "no ignition". After changing the spark plugs there is no reaction on the starter switch at all, but push start leads to a very smooth motor sound at all kinds of rpm.

Freaky bike... Maybe indeed just in this moment the switch button contacts reached the end of their life?

Kill switch is fine: test drive - turn on/off - function is OK.

Thanks for your helping ideas!

Joe

Edit: Just found out the 4 contacts at the starter motor relais (behind the 30A fuse) have 0 Ohms. Seems to be broken. Looking for a new one...let's see...

???!!!

Are you working with a wiring diagram of your bike????

You've stated twice your Starter Motor is working fine. Now you're saying all four Starter Relay contacts are shorted. If that was the case you'd Blow the Main Fuse instantly or destroy your Clutch Diode, and your Starter would never work?

Doesn't make sense to me!

Very easy to test the Starter Switch. With Ignition to On you should measure 12v at the Yellow/Red wire of the Starter Relay Every time you press the Start Switch.

8 hours ago, joe678 said:

Start-Switch is still moody. I think the electrical contacts next to my right thumb are just worn out....

But push start works great

On 9/15/2023 at 12:29 AM, joe678 said:

Pressing the starter button causes normal starter motor operations,

Doesn't make sense that your Starter Switch is "moody" when you say "pressing the switch causes normal Starter Motor operation".

5 hours ago, Grimesy said:

Hey thanks for your help, the fan comes on at 104 degrees so I know that works. I’ve topped up the system after burping but still have the high temps. Any one know how to check if the water pump works and if they go?

"Still have high temps" ? While the bike sits stationary idling? In stop/start traffic? All Normal.

These bikes rely heavily on good coolish airflow through the radiators to maintain a constant temp of around 76 to 80 degC with an ambient temp of around 25degC or lower, on hotter days engine temperature will also rise.

With a cold engine feel the upper radiator return hose at the neck. Start the engine, at around 76 to 80 deg you should notice the hose temperature rapidly rise. This will indicate both thermostat and water pump operation.

Not sure if there is any way of checking it but perhaps fitting a new Radiator Cap might be worth doing, and I wouldn't trust that damaged hose you have!

Once burped. Top up the Reserve Tank, don't worry about overfillig it, the system will either draw back what it needs or any excess will be simply dumped overboard via the reserve tank overflow hose. just keep an eye on the Reserve Tank level, top up if needed, but the level should settle down after a ride or two.

I'd be a little concerned about the hose burnt by the header pipe, needs sorting out!

As Terry mentioned make sure your cooling fan is kicking in when it should.

Download the Service Manual from this site if you don't already have one, link attached.

Service Manual, 6th Gen 2002+ VTEC, with bookmarks, new cover & OCR https://www.vfrdiscussion.com/index.php?/files/file/150-service-manual-6th-gen-2002-vtec-with-bookmarks-new-cover-ocr/

On 9/12/2023 at 4:34 AM, inglewoodjack7888 said:

Hello, 

 

I’ve had this bike for a couple years now without any issues until the other day. It’s a 2006 with about 65k miles. Previous owner had installed a power commander, rectifier/regulator upgrade, led lights. While I was going out for a ride, about 30 minutes into it while cruising down the road, I lost power to my headlights (high and low), Speedo, tach, odometer, and fuel gauge. That’s it, bike continued to run normal. My turn signals, brake lights, clock all still worked. I’ve checked the 2 fuses under the seat by the battery, the fuse box in the front RT top fairing, and looked around for anything that may have shook loose but didn’t see anything. Does anyone have an idea of where I should look to next? Thanks for your time.

With all those various items not working, it sounds like you have a Ground issue.

Check the yellow ground block (if it has one!) taped into the wire harness, located front left side of the bike. Make sure all pins and sockets are clean, no sign of oxidization or burnt connection. May require cutting the block out and soldering all of the wires together.

Also check the Green ground wire going through the 18P Blue connector, located just above the left side radiator.

See attached pictures.

Make sure that any Ground wire has solid continuity, (virtually zero ohms) back to the battery Negative. Make sure that with power on, Ground wires have ZERO Voltage on them with respect to the battery Negative, voltage detected on a Ground wire means it's not properly Grounded.

Good Luck.

Hi Joe.

Beautiful VFR400R You Have.

You might have an issue with Voltage drop somewhere for a Normal Neutral Start, could be a poor/high resistance connection.

- Measure the 12v at the Ignitor Unit.

- What does this voltage drop to as you crank the engine over?

- Compare the voltage reading to the voltage measured at the Battery while cranking the engine over.

How different are the measurements?

Note - Keep the Black voltmeter lead on the battery Negative terminal.

Nice bike Keny.

Do some good ohm measurements on both the Pulse Generator coils and the Cam Pulsar (if it has the Cam Pulsar) especially if you can get the engine hot. These coils can become flaky/intermittent with heat, make sure they have good continuity in wiring back to the Spark Unit.

Also make sure 12v Power (Black/White wire) to the Spark Unit and the Ignition Coils, and the Ground (Green wire) to the Spark Unit is good.

And.......It goes without saying! Make sure battery terminals are clean and tight.!

Good luck with the bike.

19 hours ago, rgrattan said:

But mainly I did it as a self-reward.  It's not every day nor very many people I know of/have heard of that get through what I got through without pharma and/or major surgery.  Love of motorcycles, my lady, my life, my family, taking control of my own health, researching the heck out of metabolism, qigong, chi nei tsang.  This is what got me through the big C ...and some really uplifting encounters in meditation.

Good on you buddy. Great story on beating the big C. Without the need for surgery.

Glad you've got the brakes just as you like them, and remember do a brake and clutch flush every 12 months or so, it's a piece of cake on an 8gen.

Enjoy the bike, the 8gen is a ripper.

Good health to you and safe riding.

3 hours ago, Bluehawk said:

 

Hi G, very interesting. This is what I get for trusting the dealer! Presson said about the manual, so i just looked it up (14-15 VFR800F [edition 61MJM01]) and for plugs it says INSPECT at 16,000m and REPLACE at 32,000m.

Nowhere does it suggest 100,000! Even in all my [old] car days never had plugs last that long.

This is the NGK IMR9D-9H Plugs they changed, so a bit confused if its the same as you're suggested, 100,000?

Valve clearances INSPECT at 16,000m.

94000 kms on yours?? the mileage since 2014 quickly adds up i guess - you have better weather to use it far more. "Never been to workshop" cos you maintain it fully yourself, i'm sure.

So......I could have waited, saved £124 on the plugs and £28 on the labour! and i bet if i look back, the previous owner [probably] changed air filter at 12000 and didn't need that either, saving another £45 or so pounds! Buggers!

Lesson learnt,  at least its now in sync for next time.

RTFM as they used to say....

thnx again

 

Hi B.

See attached spec for NGK IMR9D-9H's. While NGK specify a design life of 100,000m Honda no doubt will apply a fair reliability safety margin specifying 48,000kms. These Plugs are nothing like the old car plugs you refer to! Even my 2013 Mazda 3 has a plug change interval of 120,000kms again being Platinum, Iridium type.

I replaced my 8gen originals at 60,000kms. colour, wear and electrode gap were all good bike had no performance issues. Some years back I replaced the plugs on a mates 6gen NGK9B-9H after 70,000kms, same situation, no performance issues plugs looked good and gaps were all in spec.

Yep, from the day I picked up my 8gen I've serviced it myself. I think I'm lucky where I live, roads are never salt treated in winter, this must help bearings, chains and sprockets. I never use a pressure washer anywhere near bearings.

Note - From 2016 8gen, the valve clearance check has been increased to 36,000kms. See attached. Guess this should just apply to the 8gen in general.

3 hours ago, Bluehawk said:

Today? Took 8th gen for a 16/17000 mile service at local Honda dealer. Full service was £475 if anyone is interested in costs (a slight discount for me). No valve clearances.

I feel the chain is still too loose [but with tolerance, just] so disappointed that was tightened a wee bit.

And, i realise many of you will say "for goodness sakes, do it yourself and save the £500", but tbh, i have no time nor real inclination to dismantle everything just for a few parts (put it down to age) :)   It's a lot I know, for changing plugs and filters.  However they discovered my front wheel bearings are shot! Pretty badly in fact and must be replaced urgently! And for these 2 reasons [3 if you count the price of £475 as a third point] is why i'm writing this, just to put it out there.

Hi Bluehawk.

Don't understand why they would replace the plugs,16,000 mile is way too early for Platinum Iridium plugs, the NGK versions are designed for 100,000mile!

Agree with you regards the front wheel bearings that perhaps a pressure washer has prematurely made them fail. I'm up to 94,000k's with no wheel bearing problems. Actually, after 94,000k's the bike is running great, no issues at all. The bike has never been in a workshop since the day I bought it new in 2014.

As for the chain, always err on the slightly loose side of the tolerance, never tight.

Enjoy your 8gen, its a great bike.

On 8/19/2023 at 11:14 PM, JonnyBgood said:

Has anyone installed the led strip lights on their bike? I'm interested but just would like to see some pics and maybe pointers on which to buy. 

Seriously, all these LED stripe light things look tacky and degrade the look of a quality machine like the 8gen or any VFR for that matter!

Where are ya gonna stick these things, and could they simply fall off at some stage? Anywhere on the fairings will probably need some form of quick electrical release for fairing removal, why go messing with the bikes electrics for no gain and the potential for introducing problems. Sorry, but Only in my irrelevant view, it will look like shit! But of course YMMV.

Enjoy your wonderful 8gen.

Hi Skids.

 - Don't worry about coolant depending on when you last changed it? For example Honda Type 2 coolant has a recommended service life of 60,000miles or near enough 100,000kms, or 5 years. By reducing the heat cycles with what you're doing probably helps to extend the 5 years time interval.

- Agree with changing clutch and brake fluid no longer than every two years as this stuff absorbs moisture over time degrading it's performance and potentially inducing corrosion.

- Agree with a full tank of fuel with stabilizer added. Avoid Ethanol blended fuel for long term storage.!

- Battery, regular charge or hooked up to an intelligent charger/maintainer.

- If you have not long replaced oil and filter with a high quality semi or full synthetic oil, can't see the need to replace this on a time basis, assume we're not talking years and years!

- A good squirt of chain lube prior to storage is a good idea.

- Like the suggestion of blocking off the air filter intakes for rodent protection, if you live where the little buggars are!

- Add a few extra psi to both tires prior to storage, set the bike up on its center stand.

- Never heard of valves being something to worry about for storage, how long are we talking about here?

- Brake pads will last a lifetime - if you never use them! Replace only when worn to minimums.

Disclaimer - As always YMMV.

Love the look of your 5gen.

Cheers.

Hi Jim.

Kaoko website lists a HND31S for a 1999 VFR800.

Have had one fitted to my 2014 for a number of years. I think it's discrete, neat and works well, it's very handy on long straight roads and highways.