Grum

1 hour ago, bmart said:

I was thinking how different it sounds to my 5th gens. 

Yep, nice quiet cams! Oops, did I say something wrong??

Amazing, Interesting and clever work you've done. Engine sounds very healthy in the video. Just like Duc2V4, interested in knowing more about disabling VTEC. Does the Power Comander V allow remapping/fueling for continuous 4 valve ops? And what about at the 6800rpm zone which would normally be the 4 valve transition rpm, can you modify that zone?

6. Ignition Switch. No need to remove at this stage. Go to the 4P connector for it and see if it has the Pink wire.

"7. curiously i do not get 12v at FCR plug at ignition on.. i had checked it before and swore i had 11v continuously but i just double checked and i had MV"

Need to be very clear about this statement!..Are you saying you are Not measuring 12v on the Black/White wires of the FCR at switch On? OR, you don't measure 12v on the Brown/Black wire with respect to Battery positive for 2 to 3sec at switch On? See attached.

If you don't have the Pink Wire on the Ignition Switch, and you do have 12v on the Black/White wires, and not seeing the 12v for the 2 to 3secs as per above, then.......... After all that's been checked, can only suspect the ECM is toast!

Starter valve synch for 5gen.

1 = Master.

2 = Match to 1.

3 = 20mmHg MORE than 1.

4 = 10mmHg MORE than 1.

TPS, Baro and MAP have a 5v Vcc voltage on the Pink wire check this voltage is good and the same value at these sensors. See attached drawing.

TPS has a Signal Ground through the ECM on the Green/Orange wire. Confirm all ECM Grounds B1 Green wire, A9 and A20 Green/Pink wires have good continuity back to the Battery Negative terminal.

TPS Signal to ECM is a Light Green wire Confirm Continuity of all three wires back to the ECM.

Run the TPS checks in the Service Manual after doing the above basic checks. Assume you have the Service Manual and accurate wiring diagram of your bike..?

 - "A resistance measurement between the negative pole of the battery and the engine block showed approximately 200 milliohms"...???? Do you have a special Low Ohm Reading instrument? Shorting your meter leads together might give .2 of an ohm (200 milliohms). Subtract meter lead resistance from your reading. Sounds like you have good main Ground bonding to the engine.

- "1. Initial Symptom:
   - The engine began to exhibit hesitation and jerky movements while maintaining a steady throttle position." Spark Plugs or dirty Fuel Filter, water condensation in the tank, or bad fuel can cause this.

 - "Cylinder number 2 could not be synchronized; adjusting the screw only decreased the vacuum, and completely unscrewing it did not increase the vacuum beyond 1.8 cmHg. "  Burnt valve maybe, perhaps a compression test might be needed?

No don't think so, its size doesn't match the OEM YTZ12S, terminal height is 35mm taller than the OEM and has a lower CCA rating of 200amps.

Best to go with a YTZ14S, CCA of 230amps AGM battery, and it's the same physical size as the YTZ12S.

"Clearing Old Stock" might not be the best way to go when it comes to batteries!

To our New Zealand and Aussie members.

The celebration of ANZAC day is special in our hearts as we celebrate, honour, and remember those who gave their lives for the freedoms we have. Lest We Forget.

43 minutes ago, Mariodelmindo said:

What’s the correct operating temperature on the 8 Gen?

78

On 4/21/2024 at 10:31 PM, Shanewalker123 said:

Funnily when I put it back together there didn’t seem to be any flashing of the FI it just went on and off as normal when I turned the engine on. do I need to reset it could the fact that it needs resetting be an issue? 

No doesn't need "resetting".

Info...

1. With the Sidestand down Ignition to On, Kill switch to RUN any active fault code will be displayed.

2. When riding, if an active fault is detected, your Fi will illuminate full On but will not flash a code (Honda logic is not to have distracting flashing lights while riding). Only displayed as per 1.

3. Resetting you refer to is the method of erasing historical stored codes. These could be codes like the MAP or IAT sensors disconnected during the SV synch or genuine past stored faults that have since been rectified.

On 4/22/2024 at 1:31 AM, Presson said:

Anyone know if SV imbalance/ out of synch causes rough cold starting and a tendency to die on throttle before fully warm? This may be the issue... 

Just my two cents worth, I hope others with more experience in this area might chime in. Interesting question.

SV synch is fundamental to good even idle, and smoothness in the small throttle opening zone, a mechanical setting, adjusted at normal operating temp, without the influence of the fast idle Wax Unit, and butterflies closed. Stands to reason this should be carried out first along with correct warm idle adjustment of 1200rpm. 

Assuming badly balanced SV's, and especially during the cold start enrichment phase, a slight touch of the throttle opening and the added air might cause a stall.

I know of a similar effect (possibly in both hot and cold modes) on a 5gen. a faulty signal from the TPS at low throttle was measured, but not bad enough to force an Fi DTC. The whole throttle body was replaced and problem solved.

All warm engine ops are normal according to Shane the OP. Perhaps signals from MAP and/or ECT are marginal at cold temps and might need checking.

Watching the Wax unit action on the Starter Valves, and if the movement is smooth and gradual from cold fast idle to the warm Idle, you can then discount the Wax Unit causing any problems.

4 hours ago, bmart said:

I bet that's a...relief. 🙂

Haha yep, vented relief I hope, horrible that blocked breather feelin, just gotta get that gas out!

Great news Duc. Speedy recovery.

I fully understand the frustration from post operative blues of not being able to ride for lengthy periods.

Nice partnership with your mate, rider training in exchange for bike help. I find it one of the joys of motorcycling, always learning and refining technique and smoothness, whether or not I achieve my goal is debatable!

Great motorcycle porn shots!

Guess you'd never want a faulty "trigger finger" with a six shooter in your hand!

Take care and best regards.

1 hour ago, Jway24 said:

I threw away the old ignition like an idiot! I wasn’t thinking the ignition was the problem. I replaced the stator, regulator, kickstand, kill switch, cam shaft sensor, starter relay and fuel cut relay lol. It’s been a headache 

Oh dear! I feel your pain, sounds like you've done a lot of guessing and not much measuring, at least you have some good spares!

Such a shame you tossed the Ignition Switch.

As far as I know that zener diode security function wasn't on Australian bikes. Either our American friends might be able to advise on a replacement, Or a bit of clever wiring to the standard three wire switch adding the appropriate 3.9v zener diode to the Pink wire and other end to the Red/black IG 12v Switched wire(zener diode polarity needs to be correct). As mentioned you need to get 9v on the Pink wire to enable the ECM. See attached. Get some advice from a good Technician on the best way to do this if you are unsure.

The symptoms for this device Not working is - Fi Light fully On, and No Fuel Pump prime. 

Good luck.

9 hours ago, klebocna101 said:

Thank you. 

May I ask what is the root cause of this sound?

 

 

You may Sir........

Copied this info from the 8gen. posting "Vent System - Update" from 2021. Assume the VFR800X has the same filler cap and vent system. Beware the tank vent hose!

Pressure Relief - 

The common noise we all have heard, and as one member puts it "sounds like the Fuel Pump is priming with power off" or just a few second buzz, fluttering or gurgling sound. This is coming from the Pressure Relief Valve in the filler cap as the tank pressure builds and overcomes the spring tension on its valve. This process will continue to repeat any time slight positive pressure builds in the tank.

As you stop a warm engine the heat transfer to the tank causes this to happen more frequently and if you open the filler cap in between the venting you'll always get a very slight pressure relief.

Vacuum Relief - 

Negative Pressure relief also has to overcome slight valve spring pressure as the fuel level drops while riding. On cold days when topping up your tank you may notice very slight suction as you open the tank cap.

So depending on temperatures and riding conditions it is Normal to have either slight Vacuum OR slight Pressure as you open the cap. The emphases being SLIGHT.

Blocked, Kinked or crushed Breather Hose = DANGER!

The problem with the 8gen is the first 12 inches or so of small diameter breather hose. When the Fuel Tank is raised to the maintenance position, the hose is pulled up through a lot of piping and general clutter in this area. If this hose is not manually pulled outwards at the small to large hose coupling taking up the slack as the tank is lowered, you run the chance of a blocked kinked breather hose.

The nasty effects of a blocked breather cannot be overstated on these bikes!

- Strong Vacuum, can make it impossible to open your filler cap. The Fuel Pump has enough strength in increasing the vacuum while riding to physically damaging your tank, bending the sides inwards.

- Whilst having the bike in the sun strong positive pressure can distort the underneath of the tank deforming it outwards. Or virtually blasting the filler cap open as you unlock it.

Any signs of strong pressures, negative or positive when opening the filler cap is a warning to check the breather hose.

All done. PM replied.

11 hours ago, Jway24 said:

I broke the key off in my ignition so I bought a aftermarket switch on eBay. Long story short it didn’t work so I have replaced everything i possibly can imagine, still doesn’t work. I learned about the zener diode earlier today and realized the ignition switch I bought doesn’t have one. Can anybody point me in the right direction for a switch that is OEM??

Doesn't the barrel of the switch separate from the wired base? Couldn't a locksmith help you out, I'm sure they could fish the broken key from your original?

Yes, anti theft function, if you have the Pink wire and zener diode this sends 9v to the ECM to enable it, 12v or Zero = Dead ECM.

1 hour ago, Presson said:

Has anyone got  PDF version in colour of the 8 Gen wiring diagrams? Planning to get the full 8 Gen workshop manual printed and spiral bound, hopefully on wipe clean paper. Getting a little fed up of scrolling on a tiny screen, or is it my eyes...😵‍💫

Hi M8. I definitely do but it's a 13meg .jpg file.

I thought I uploaded it to the forum a few years ago can't find it. Tried to attach to this but file too big

Using photoshop elements I managed to splice together a number of sections of drawings creating a nice hi res complete color drawing.

Can you PM me an email address? Think email will cope with up to 20meg

2 hours ago, Shanewalker123 said:

Thank you for your help. I did what you said. When I start the motorcycle still it hovers around 1000rpm as soon as I touch the throttle it dies. I turn it back on it goes up to 1750rpm (warming up) after 2 mins it goes around 1200rpm and runs like a dream and throttle is okay. Is this normal? 

No mate not normal.

"I did what you said."  Excellent, I'm glad the FPR wasn't leaking!

Have a close check of all the Throttle Body vacuum hoses, look for any small cracks or damage, especially make sure All the hoses for the MAP sensor are good.

- Any Fi fault codes?

- How old are the Spark Plugs?

- What fuel is currently in the tank? Octane, Ethanol level and how old?

Wow, nearly 236,000 faultless kilometres, great testament to Honda reliability, nice looking bike. Hope the 1200 lives up to the enjoyment and durability you've had with the NC700X. Sure hope my 2014 8gen VFR can live up to that mileage - I have no future replacement plans for my VFR, now at over 96,000kms.

Cheers

Sounds like you might have a bit of stiction with the Wax unit linkages, etc. 

Try cleaning and lubricating all linkages, a spray of some WD-40.

See if that makes any difference.

You might also benefit from a Starter Valve Synch procedure.

While you're in that area. Pop the vacuum hose off the FPR Fuel Pressure Regulator, check the hose is dry and no weeping of fuel from the FPR vac hose fitting. Weeping fuel = Ruptured diaphragm. 

And.......Download the Service Manual from the forum if you don't already have it.

12 hours ago, SABen said:

Previous owner left everything to dealers, I showed him some faults he was not aware of when viewing the bike so not much there

 

Will remove the fairings this weekend and start measuring and tracing and checking for cables that aren't part of the loom.

 

Will make some notes as I go as this will be my first time chasing a electrical issue and that wiring map is already making my eyes hurt

Some good voltage checks especially around the ESR, voltage on fuse test points Ignition On and Off, visual inspections for strange wiring, continuity check of Ignition Switch function. Are all good starting points.

Download the Service Manual form the forum if you don't have it.

May the Force be With You....There's plenty of info to get the ball rolling, very interested in what you may discover, post photos.

Strangest VFR fault I've ever heard of!

Can you unplug the R/R run the engine, is there any change to the Ignition Switch operation? Grasping at straws a little now.

- Suggest accessing the Ignition Switch 4P plug and do some continuity checks confirming good Switch operation. Refer bottom left corner of wiring diagram for Switch Connection Table.

I'm struggling to relate your symptoms to the wiring diagram, also struggling with what or how a wiring modification could induce such strange issues with two separate switch functions.

19 minutes ago, SABen said:

But now I can do you one more - When the engine is not running, the ignition switches off normally, and it doesn't matter if the kill switch is on or not

Bloody hell!  Now I'm really confused, this is crazy. Check for Non OEM wiring.

Are you able to get any feedback from the previous owner as to wiring changes or anything done electrically to the bike?

1 hour ago, SABen said:

- Keys off and out - Lights and Instrument panel stays on while engine keeps running

RIGHT - This explains part of the Fault. The Ignition Switch is faulty or you have a Red wire to Red/Black wire short, powering Fuses C,D,E, and F. Refer Ignition Switch wiring on previous diagram. 

But how on earth does activating the Kill Switch then turn Off power to these circuits??

Strange wiring modifications maybe.

Important now to check all voltages at the ESR with Ignition ON/OFF and Kill switch 12v Power to ESR Black wire.

Note - Engine can Only continue to Run if 12v Power on the all important EFI power wire being the Black/White from the ESR is there when it shouldn't be. eg When Kill Switch activated or Ignition to OFF.

On 4/19/2024 at 4:44 AM, nismogt1 said:

My concern is that the current owner has been running a DAM muffler with a K&N air filter in it. Without a tune on the ECU to compensate

Never been an issue with all 4 VFR800's I've owned with after market exhausts fitted, 1200 shouldn't be any different.

O2 sensors means ECU runs in closed loop, so air to fuel ratio is continuously optimized.

Think you're worrying about nothing. I'd probably go back to the OEM type airfilter if it was mine! 

Good Luck with the bike, take it for a good test ride.

Check it's maintenance history. Coolant change, brake and clutch fluid replacement - should have had a few of those! Oil and filter, etc.

P.s. I'm sure there was a rear wheel drive unit issue recall for the early 1200's. Make sure this has been done.

19 hours ago, SABen said:

Hi Grum

Thank you for the reply

 

Private sale, so no dealership.

 

When kill switch is in the Off position the engine does not crank.

 

It seems I need to start with Fuse C and the Engine Stop Relay.

 

I will give feedback once I had the time to check this.

 

Apparently the dealership that serviced the bike told the previous owner there is nothing wrong and that it is part off the HISS system. Yet another reason I don't trust dealerships anymore.

That's one good thing, the Kill Switch when activated does inhibit Cranking.

"When kill switch is in the Off position the engine does not crank"

- Sorry to be pedantic assume you Did have Ignition to ON when checking this?

- Very Important for diagnosis, Please Check exactly this - Ignition ON, Kill Switch OFF, Press Starter Switch - Does the engine Crank ?

Absolutely completely wrong that either Kill OR Ignition Switch doesn't stop the engine. HISS cannot cause the condition you have. Crazy to think a dealership would say such a thing!

 Questions..

- With the Engine Running. Then turn Off only the Ignition Switch (assume the engine continues to run). Do the Headlights go Off and the Instrument Panel go blank?

- And with engine running, Sidestand Down, Clutch In shift to in Gear. Does the Engine immediately Stop as it should?

- Can you identify any strange non OEM looking wiring anywhere on the bike, you'll need to remove a lot of plastic to check this?

As possibly only a part of the fault. I'd be checking to see if the Bank Angle Sensor has been bypassed. Meaning its unplugged and the Red/Yellow wire is jumpered to the Green wire. Or the Red/Yellow wire simply Grounded.

I think the bottom line here (at this stage!) is that the ESR is possibly staying energised when it obviously shouldn't. Hopefully!! a few voltage checks might find out Why.