Knight

12 hours ago, stuartb3502 said:

I'm not clear on what you mean in your post by wide (diameter presumably?) or what is stopping the silencer/muffler going on far enough. (that sounds more like the length (i.e. measurement parallel to exhaust tubing).

Yes exactly, the length, my bad on the wording.

Thank both you very much! I did notice that the gasket is soft and compressible so I suspected such, but I have no personal experience and could not question this tech who is extremely aggressive at pointing out his OEM certifications. Needless to say, that was his last job. 

1999 VFR800: My tech removed an aftermarket muffler and installed a Honda muffler. It will not go on far enough. The tech states the gasket is too wide and he has never seen anything like this. He trimmed 1/3" off the gasket and got the muffler on enough to bolt it correctly.

The muffler is a revised part not the original (Perhaps it was created for the 2000?) and the gasket part never changed through the 2001 bike. I was wondering if Honda left the revised muffler backward compatible with the 99 but the installer has to trim the gasket. (?) It does however not seem right to trim these gaskets though (irrespective of if they still have asbestos in them?) Is there a method to press this muffler on further? 

Thanks.

I did some research in other threads. You are considering maintenance with Jamie Daugherty this winter? He will add a shock spring of his recommended ideal/maximum height. That is the best configuration. Exceeding said geometry will begin to diminish neutral handling and generate trade-offs in stability.

My 99 had this problem. Below around say 75°F, it would pant and die on the first attempt and start on the second attempt. This was after a valve check, replacement of all intake rubber, vacuum synch, and fuel injector maintenance. I used Sea Foam at the rate it prescribes for "cleaning." That helped the engine start and shoot up instantaneously, like a dart, to a high idle of 3200+. I cannot help but wonder where the problem was. Gunk built up in the fuel rail?

Black Widow UK has every size imaginable and relatively speaking very reasonable prices for new mufflers, although I do not know what the shipping cost can be.

2 hours ago, MaxSwell said:

For 60 mph to zero mph, the VFR800fi tied for 6th best at 108.something feet. Most mc publications reviewing motorcycles consider 120 feet 60 - 0 excellent.

My Celica weighs 2650 lbs (200 lbs or so lighter than a typical Civic from the same time period.) It has 4 massive disk brakes and performs 60 to 0 in 110 feet. For the VFR, with two thin tires, to perform better, to me is nothing short of unbelievable.

Note that Daffy commented on the lever feel, the typical complaint of VFR brakes. I get it if people want a race replica ON / OFF feel to the brakes (I do not). The OP's need, though, sounds different from improving braking distance.

Mello, you know that friction is calculated via weight. A big fat heavy bike has an advantage there, just like a car. Your point is valid but is also obvious.

Yea what Grum said, it may be that simple. I read into it that it was not running well, but if it is just idle, the starter valves are the idle control vacuum circuit. The manual tells how. You may find a youtube video showing a 6th generation procedure for reference, but note the vacuum specs are different so get those from the manual. Yes, for future reference the factory service manual yields some specs such as resistances/voltage/etc. and procedures, although occasionally helpful hints that an OEM certified tech might know are left out. A lot of people here can fill those in though. 

Check for faults:

Did you have this bike running well before this? Were you in the airbox since then?

Check that sensors in the airbox are connected and (I can't recall) if there are identical connectors that can be cross-wired (TPS/MAP?). The same with the ignition coils to the correct spark plug. It might just be that a feedback signal is missing due to a bad connection or something is feeding back the wrong signal from a crossed connection. If you just got this bike you have to be extra careful to throw out assumptions and check connections from start to finish,  validating that the prior owning did not insert a jerry-rig.

If the bike had not yet been running well and all of that is good then yes you might need to use the specs in the service manual to troubleshoot the items  you listed with a multimeter, checking fuel flow, etc. 

8 hours ago, Squamishvfr said:

Knight have you actually got a PCV working properly on your current bike?  Can you tell me what firmware version you have it running on? 

 

As I type this it is night and I cannot access the bike right now. However I have the latest firmware version whatever it is. I have also had several versions of firmware. I bought the unit in 2014 so relative to our bike's age I have had all much never firmware versions but never had a problem with operation.

Sorry they must have purged it or changed the urls and I am not privy to the change. From memory I do not think that information would be helpful. I may have written there about converting maps from PCiii to PCV. The PCiii maps at Dynojet had a timing table attached, and even after converting a PCiii map to PCV map, the timing table remained in the PCV map version. That map would not load to the unit. That does not matter too much now as Dynojet has added a couple of PCV fifth gen maps to the site, avoiding the need to convert a PCiii map just to get a fifth gen map.

Squamish regarding your request for help, you need an example of a 2000-2001 setup as those of us with 98-99 vehicles do not have this surge problem.

If the firmware is a problem Dynojet will most likely provide a prior version if it is not available on their web site. So just ask about reverting firmware to prior versions, and there would be no harm in trying several versions, assuming Dynojet agrees that it can be reverted. It is always best to check firmware procedures given the wrong steps can disable a device.

Have you tried to see if the bike is storing a fault code while the PC is connected? My suggestion is on the other thread here:

https://www.vfrdiscussion.com/index.php?/forums/topic/87325-much-to-be-gained-from-power-commander/&page=2&tab=comments#comment-1081759

Several people with the 2000-2001 had the surging problem. I have a 1999 and it worked right out of the box. One would think your bike, in between the 1999 and the 2002, would then work. 😞

Try using the service check connector to see if the bike reports a problem in this configuration:

https://www.vfrdiscussion.com/index.php?/forums/topic/16-fi-light-how-to-read-error-codes/

http://www.pdqautosupplies.com/foreign-retainers

I use this place to get fasteners for car engine covers but had not looked up the bike parts here yet. Do they cross over for Honda? Note the products are labeled by OEM brand replacement and the product page has all of the dimension specifications. Their service is good too. In a bulk pack I had two broken or incomplete ones. I told them just to inform them and that I wanted nothing in return but they sent me a large number of new ones anyways. I cannot say that they are great quality (maybe that is ubiquitous today?) Sometimes I use them once and on removal they show signs that they only want to be used once. However at 65 cents a piece or similar I do not hesitate to swap them out. Note that any slotted foreign fasteners probably demand a JIS screwdriver.

10 hours ago, MadScientist said:

The only time I really see a drawback in the PCV system is when I'm using autotune to adjust for changes. 

MS, do you have a PCV self-tuned map for the 1998? If yes would you please share the map and your bike setup?

I don't know bulbs nor your bike generation so someone else can comment. This is a conversion kit with ballasts? You may want to post the specifics.

Regarding the light system, everywhere you worked inspect the wiring for a nick, pinch, or burn mark where a short could be generated. All connections are tight. A short is supposed to pop a fuse but if it does not it could in fact last a while unnoticed until the current burns through a wire or heat damage a fuse. 

Is the battery secure? Are the cables tight? The battery like the headlights is a "high power item" so it is one more thing to make sure after the last time it was connected that the battery did not bounce around, short, and there is no sign of burning on the bike near the terminals.

That the clock cannot be maintained makes me think a short is draining all of the power. Turn ignition off. Pull negative battery cable. Put an ammeter between the cable and the battery. Ammeter should be on 20 AMPS to protect the meter. Now change it to 2 amp, .2 amp, etc. until you get a reading. If larger than about 3 mA / .003 A then there is a short. If there is a short you should see a number "much larger" than this as a hint. Pull fuses until ammeter reading plummets. You found the circuit with the short and now have to troubleshoot the wiring/devices on that circuit. The wiring diagram can tell you what devices are run on that circuit. (See the owner's manual or perhaps there is one in the downloads section of this site.)

If any changes were made to the bike or there were any other electrical issues addressed perhaps you have a hint as to the problem. Or did you just pick up this bike?

I quickly found online apps that will do this. This one lets you use multiple colors, label the map, and I produced a map in 1 minute:

http://diymaps.net/us_12.htm

You can right-click the final image and save it to disk. This will not print well as it is small in size. With each new state you visit will have to recreate the map and hope the web site is still there.

Have you checked out the tools that you own for this capability, like Office, Visio, etc.? Search any applicable template or plugin libraries online. I see MS has a product for mapping but it works with Excel 2013 or Office 365 and not prior versions.

My research shows that QGIS produces advanced maps and it is open source, aka free to you. I might expect a steep learning curve. (Verified after trying it. One must load data from a geo source online, then it maps the areas from the data.)

https://www.qgis.org/en/site/

11 hours ago, VifferJ said:

Is anyone on here changing the gearing? If so, how did that work out and how many teeth did you go with?

http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/index.php?/forums/topic/72520-sprocket-sizes-decisions-decisions/

Bent has a very good point about avoiding this bike. While it could be coincidence that the bike has changed hands many times it could also be that it has a problem the other owners could not fix, but you could use that for negotiation and just solve the problem. I think that the best thing that could happen is that you identify a severe performance problem, because then the reason for the sales becomes known, and you can just fix it. So if the condition is pristine and the mileage makes perfect sense then continue with your analysis.

The low mileage and infrequent use of the engine puts it at risk for dried up gaskets and seals, such as valve cover gaskets, starter valve seals, and coolant hoses.  Run your fingers along any hoses and gaskets you can reach looking for weeping fluid that hasn't quite dripped yet.

On a test drive, go perfectly steady at 35, 36, 37, 38, and 39 MPH. Be perceptive of lean surges which can happen at one of these specific speeds. This would indicate either tuning of the starter valves is required, a leak due to dried seals in them, or both. Note the idle. If it is raised much over 1200 rpm that could have been done to offset a vacuum imbalance and to help it idle without stalling.

Start it cold and feel the radiator, it should stay cold until the thermostat opens. If it slowly warms with the temperature gauge the thermostat is stuck open, another  common problem.

Every issue can be fixed, but some of these items can be labor intensive.

Aside from the fluid checks mentioned, look at the plastic of the reservoirs. If the fluid is clear but the plastic is stained dark, then you know the original fluid sat for a long time. The reason I mention this is that these bikes have an extensive linked brake system, with more nooks and crannies for old fluid to sit. Thus it can be more effort to refresh this system then you may expect.

If you have not, go to CycleTrader and select NEW VFR800s. These originally had an MSRP of $12,500 but are selling for sub-$7000 and even sub-$6000. I know that's a lot more than this bike, but after you add some accessories, you may come awfully close to some of the new/leftovers.

Having had a stuck open thermostat and run at that 65°C mark in cold weather myself, the bike had no performance issues. I do not think that the ECU rich warm-up mode is enough to dump the amounts of fuel that you are seeing. I could be wrong.

Have you ridden this bike much since you built it? Is this a brand new problem? Your description sounds like it is a new problem from the cold riding, but I thought that I would get clarification and not make assumptions.

If the injectors came off of a bike with a significantly dirty tank, maybe they are all in fact stuck open. (?)

Given that all cylinders show a problem, could there be a significant vacuum leak in the intake? If you use four gauges to tune the starter valves, are the vacuums similar to the book spec or otherwise significantly low? (Guys are there other vacuum tests?)

Is the fuel pump OEM, aka the pressure is not excessive?

If this had a cat then I would ask if that was blocked, but otherwise cannot think of airflow restrictions on the exhaust side.

http://www.puigusa.com/tuning-bikes/honda-vfr800-2002/c171en/m966/

They show two for the sixth gen, "racing" and "touring". Part 1097 is the racing screen. It seems to be a current product and available from different suppliers. They call the dark one black with a code 1097N. Is that it?

Bump.

The noise at idle: Search this site and youtube for audio of a bad vfr800 cam chain tensioner. Does the sound match what you are hearing? Or record your bike and post a Youtube video here for others to examine.

A 2002 needs cam chain tensioners periodically, right around your mileage of 28,000 miles. If that is the problem, it is standard maintenance and it is not the end of the world. 

Rads are hot - oh okay it sounds like flow is normal. So, short of an infra red thermometer, perhaps a meat thermometer would reach the radiators through the screen? I would try that with Terry's test. Only this can tell you if another stuck thermostat is keeping it too cool, or otherwise if this is how this bike wants to run (on the freeway I presume?) during 17°C weather.

As a reference, with a stuck open thermostat, my 5th gen would hit 38C in say 3 minutes on a 75°F day at 3,000 RPM. That is slow because it had to warm up all of the water in the rads. You did not give times but I get the impression (correct me) that your engine runs a lot longer to get to 44-64C, and the rads are still ambient temperature, correct? This sounds different from the typical stuck-open thermostat problem, which would warm up the rads. This sounds like the temperature sensor is heating up due to the conduction of heat through non-moving coolant. So the temp reading only reflects the localized temperature at the sensor, but the rads are cool and the engine head is extremely hot.

This sounds like air is trapped, the thermostat is stuck closed, or the pump is not moving coolant.

A theory: If there is no flow or the thermostat is filled with air, the overheating could have seized up the prior thermostats. AKA replacing the thermostat was treating the symptom, but the the root cause remains.

Are there flow tests (pump/thermostat) in the factory service manual?

Is it possible for a radiator to be completely blocked?