bmart

I have now gotten a few local rides and 165 miles in the mountains on it. It is like a different bike. Completely rideable with just a few little niggles I'll probably get to eventually. I'm embarrassed at the time wasted (yours and mine) by looking at shock length and sag but not ride height. I should know better, despite the "same" model...

I have very little to add. My 5th gen is superb, as was the 5th gen before it. The 6th gen I rented nearly got thrown in the ocean the VTEC was so bad. In my mind, there's no comparison. 

Where have you looked...or do you want us to do that for you?

I really need to get my spare wheels painted white. Maybe this will be the year. They look so good against the yellow. 

That sucks. It might be worth making something to go under the stand that makes it flat/level, then just lever it onto the center from side stand securely...then up!

Sorry to hear about this. Is the surface in the garage uneven? 

I have this strong desire to mess with the lock nut. Is this a don't cross the streams kind of thing? 🙂

Because something else is different, even if they eventually ended up at the same p/ns. I don't like it. I've been chasing my tail. But I'm set now with a direction and have made it most of the way to the destination. Hopefully worth the effort. All things being equal...I'd still rather have Thermosman forks!

30 minutes ago, Captain 80s said:

I am still VERY confused. 

 

Why are you worried about getting more shock length (or worried about why you couldn't install @ 330mm, I guess) when your ride height is already way more than you want?

 

Why aren't you just adjusting the length down to get where you want? 

 

If when the stock shock is installed and Honda was ok with the linkage to exhaust clearance, won't shortening your shock to get the ride height you desire, also improve the linkage to exhaust clearance?

 

"Because at 330mm (same a '98) the aSS end is way up there, part(s) have to be different."

 

So some part of the rear on a 2000 is different than the 98.  Adjust the shock length down to achieve the ride height you want and be done.  I don't see what is preventing you from doing that.

 

On that note, what do the two stock shocks you removed measure at?

 

Before I thought you weren't able to get enough length, because everything was maxed out, to get the rear up where you wanted.  And then when I re-read and realized it was the opposite, I'm not sure what the road block is.

 

I must be missing, or misinterpreting, a very big chunk of info. 

I'll try!

Measuring ride height (not sag) should have happened early, but it didn't. I had no idea to even think that it would be different. This falls on me. Big fat fail. Once that critical step was skipped, it was a rabbit hole. Currently, rear ride height is 4.5mm higher than VFR98. I may address that when my 27mm open end wrench comes. It is a PITA with a giant adjustable. I was after 330mm long shock when I should have been on ride height. 

I am adjusting it shorter to get what I want. I expected ~4mm actual ride height change from 1mm of shock length change. that was WAY off from my CB-1 info. It is nearly 1:1, it seems. I adjust only 1.5mm so I got ~2mm at the rear. It was enough to get past the crappy feel of having it TOO high. 

Measuring the two OEM shocks. I've done that. both 325mm. It seems that the '00 must allow for only 1-3mm, not 5mm that the '98 allows...and works best at. 

You are correct. Goal is to set the same ride height, which I will done when I have the 27mm wrench, to avoid complete shock removal.  

Ignoring ride height and focusing on sag and shock length was a big failure on my part. I just wish someone who has been through this chimed in in the last year or so...It would have saved me a lot of time and money. 

It truly wasn't bad to ride today. I want to get some miles in before making any changes. It was truly sucky before this. As you know...enough to sell it. 

Never give up! One never knows how close they are to a solution! 🙂

While there is little or no room between the cat and the shock mount...it isn't keeping it from moving more. The plates seem to be the limiter. I could be wrong. Yellow shock is 327-328 mm now. 

I did get out for a ride today after the adjustments mentioned in prior posts. I also set the shock compression damping (high and low) to 10 out (recommended) from 9 out (my test). 

It still isn't quite like red, but it is miles better. Front sag is 26/34. Rear sag is 10/30. More than adequate. (Red is 26/33 front and ~31mm rider sag on the shock.)

For now, D-U-N done. Hoping I can dig it by the rally. 

FJs are lovely...

Keep in mind how I got into this mess.

Hate red, in general, on anything. VFRs are mostly red...so my tag is UGLYRED. I mean my hatred. lol

An ex-riding buddy sent me the link to an available yellow. I planned to just swap bodywork and get on with life.

Then I thought I'd swap my nice goodies onto old yeller with far fewer miles and keep only that.

Then I decided I maybe would keep both and started setting up the yellow bike. I wanted it the same as the red bike as that is sublime to ride, but...found parts that had small differences, and they've added up. 

Sargent seat on red got reformed to my specs for $80 from Sargent a few years back. I tried to send them yellow (came from a lovely lister) for the identical treatment but they wanted over $300 + S&H both ways...so it isn't as comfy and my body isn't angled the same as red. 

I couldn't find Helibars, so I bought Belarus bar risers (and found Helis later...they're still in the box). They're lovely items, but the angle is quite different and they don't allow the levers to tilt down to the proper angle. My joints are starting to complain now...

If I was going to keep it, it needed suspenders bigtime. From the aftermarket, the shocks shown are the same. I cheaped out on a new Bitubo and wish I hadn't. I'm pining for another Penske...

Similar story on the forks. I should have sent them to Thermosman but instead tried a friend's guy who was more local. Thermosman set up my forks as a one off and they are superb. The yellow ones have a kit in them and they're better than stock...but it took ~5 trips 90 minutes away each to keep bringing them back to "fix" what was done to them. 

Riding it isn't bad, but it is nothing like red. I keep taking small bites to get it close enough, but that isn't free on time or money and at some point, I'll accept my fate with it or get rid of it. 

For the cam in the back, they're both set up the same now, with a clockwise change loosening the chain. 

I have been looking for "why" they're different, just to understand. I've now moved onto getting it set up well enough or not. Life is going by. To paraphrase Jean Luc, a day comes when you realize there are far fewer days ahead than behind. 

1 hour ago, fabio222 said:

 

Nope I haven't. I have a small child to raise, a job to hold down, a house to run, bikes to maintain, so I don't get to forensically analyse every thread. 

 

Did I break a rule or something??? You barked at someone else for not having read back through loads of pages too, seems you've an issue with that? 

 

ha ha! I think that this forum, and others, seem like our "babies." A lot of time goes into them from frequent posters with many more single time visitors (not you) barking about the completeness and timeliness of free answers. It isn't...equal in that regard. 

I get a lot from this site, so I try to give a lot...and like most of us, don't take offense if at all possible. People are what they are...when they are. You never know what is going on in someone's life or in their day. 🙂

Thanks for the input, guys. Here's where I'm at. 

330mm was nearly impossible to get in. I may have backed off 1/2 mm but it took force to get the plates/bolts in. 

Changing the length of the shock will allow easier install in that regard, but does not change the lack of clearance to the cat, for instance, as all of that is driven by the plates...unless the cat is moved/lowered. 

The bike had ~3k miles on it, so unless it was a visually perfect repair, I think everything was factory when I bought it. It was an "I know what I got" seller...but he owned Harley's, so I expected that!

Because at 330mm (same a '98) the aSS end is way up there, part(s) have to be different. I have no way to easily compare them without removing them from both bikes, so I took the tack of p/n research. Some p/ns had changed, but the same ones (for parts listed in prior posts-singarm, frame, linkage, dogbone, centerstand, etc.) fit both bikes outside of the actual shock p/n which is different. I can't know beyond that unless someone else posts some info about theirs...and I heard only crickets. 

I suspect that the area where the top of the shock mounts to extends slightly further down on the '00. that would cause trouble getting the 330mm shock in and raise everything...but I'm making that up. There are quite a few parts that could have changed to cause this symptom. 

So...I sucked it up and got my Captain big boy pants on and shortened the shock 1.5 turns, so 1.5 mm, which turned into a no weight (on centerstand) measurement change of 2-3 mm. I expected more or I would have shortened the shock more. (CB-1 is 3-4 mm per 1mm  change in shock length, for reference.) Again...I wish folks that know would chime in. I may have to do that one more time, but I'm going to ride it as is (and set warm sag properly) and see what happens. 

Stay tuned or tune out. It's up to you. 🙂

1998 at 330mm. Plenty of room and easy to install. 

2000 problem with clearance, Clarence

I'm not gaslighting you, whatever that is. I'm not hip. 

~330mm is (jammed) in there, but the ass end is WAY up in the air. If it wasn't jammed...the ass end is still way in the air. Whatever the swingarm hits is irrelevant. Make sense? 

11 hours ago, Captain 80s said:

But is unable, or unwilling, to find out what two parts are hitting each other.

Admittedly, I'm grumpy about it...but I'll get there. 

Unencumbered by facts, I suspect that the shock is shorter to accommodate the cat. Perhaps max length is shorter on the '00 and 330mm just isn't right. I can easily make up for that with my limited brain power...soon. 

I appreciate the input and sarcasm. 

7 hours ago, Terry said:

I don't have the patience to read back very far. Is the eccentric adjuster for the rear wheel flipped over?

I wish. They're both set the same. 

Poking around the parts list, the shocks are different part numbers. I can try to find mine and see if length differs. Still, there has to be another part(s) that would drive that shorter shock. I just can't find it. Regardless, I'll likely have to pull the plates/dogbone, shorter the shock 2-3mm (assuming that'll get me close to removing that 11mm delta) and get on with life....hopefully it will be very similar in measurements to the '98, let me set sag again on both ends...and ride this sucker...maybe to the rally. 

I took some "better" measurements tonight. The forks are the same length. New tires on bothe etc. At the back, helmet lock is 11mm higher on '00. 4mm is between floor and bottom of axle bolt and 7mm is between axle bolt and helmet lock. 

I've look a bunch of times, Captain. There doesn't seem to be anything to "find." That is why I want someone else's measurements. 

Current plan:

Test as is with new tires. Should fell much better from a turning point of view, but won't likely affect suspension issues. 

Take measurements when hot and in gear on both VFRs and adjust if necessary.

If still bad, adjust fork height in triple tree to better match rear height difference.

If still bad, modify damping.

If still bad, swap to Ebay bodywork and sell. 

I've had that shock in/out many times and couldn't find anything in the way. 

I hoped that someone with the pre/post O2/cat setup could measure theirs and see if I am chasing ghosts. 

They are, and they are sized identically. 

WSBK, hands down. The actual racing is so much better and the bikes are closer to what we actually ride/have access to. MotoGP is like F1 (that isn't a compliment as they're getting more like each other every year). 

My friend and I each buy one and share. I'm never going to pay for GP anyway...

Follow up...I had a buddy come and take a look with me to ensure I wasn't out of my mind. It gets stranger...

I checked p/ns of additional parts to find out that they are/should be identical. They include frame, subframe, swingarm, centerstand (you'll see why soon). The rear is visually much higher on VFR00 than on VFR98. Shock length and forks are setup the same on both bikes. 

Forks show as set up the same in the triple. Taking initial sag measurement confirms this. 

Shock length is verified (again) as identical in the bikes. Shocks are both 330mm. VFR98 went in smoothly with plenty of room. You may remember VFR00 shock was a absolute b%&th to get in. So much so that it broke and had to be repaired. Something isn't right. And with all of the extra room...shouldn't it have been easier to get in?

For peace of mind, I measured a few things related to geometry and some others for confirmation of the visual. 

Bottom of axle to horizontal at helmet lock is 377mm on VFR00 and 366 on VFR98. 11 mm delta. 

Bottom of axle to floor on centerstand is 305mm on VFR00 and 295 on VFR98. 11 mm delta. 

No weight sag taken in same place is 377mm on VFR00 and 366 on VFR98. 11 mm delta. 

11mm is killing me and I don't know why there's a variance. Anyone? With the rear in the air, shouldn't they be identical with the same length shock in there? 

Riding these two bikes back to back is night and day. The '98 is brilliant and the '00...sucks a lot. 

Going to have another go at this yellow bike suspension. It still isn't very nice to ride, despite the expense of suspension. With the forks set to the same place in the triples, the rear is WAY higher than the '98 when on the center stand. Something is absolutely wonky. 

Measured at helmet lock, rear is 15mm higher than VFR98. 
Measured at rear light, rear is 24mm taller than VFR98. 
Measured at side seat bolt is ~9mm taller than VFR98. 

My brain went to the challenge of installing that Bitubo set to the same 330mm as the '98 and the '99 before it. But with the bike on the center stand...it doesn't point to shock length. 

Open to great ideas, as I'm running out of them. 

Most forums have an auto-sizer built in. Not sure about the two VFR sites. From talking to others who run forums, it is an easy mod/upgrade for the moderator to make and all sites should have it on there to save time for...everyone. 🙂