ShipFixer

Just ordered a Rapid Bike Racing to go with mine when I get around to installing it.  Just to verify, I need an M18 1.5 pitch plug to fill the wideband sensor hole right?  Didn't order the MTB module this time around, maybe later.

4 hours ago, Cogswell said:

I got a RB Racing to go with my VFRD headers.  The RB Racing module I got came with a pre-loaded map for the VTEC.  As is,  it plugs in to the 2 stock O2 sensors and self tunes to your setup - headers, cans, air filter, engine condition, etc. For now, I just plugged the one 18mm O2 port.   I picked a couple of MPGs - no telling if it would do that for you.  The engine runs flawlessly, I love it.   If you want to use a wideband O2 sensor, you'll need the My Tuning Bike.  I haven't done that but it's on my list.  IMHO RB is way better than a P.C. 

 

As for the software, that . . . has been more of a mystery to me.  I consider myself relatively tech savvy - I've built some PC's,  but I'm certainly no expert.  However the only place I could find to download the software from is from Dimsport's Italian website. For whatever reason, it would not load properly on my Win 10 laptop.  I have not gotten around to calling Yaman to find out where to get it and if there's a user's guide for it.  If anyone solves that, I would be very interested in what turns up.

 

 

Ok, I think this is the info I'm looking for!  I too consider myself pretty good at figuring things out, and yet the Dimsport's website also leaves me with many questions :lol:  So the Racing module will self-tune with the stock sensors and I don't need the MTB thingy yet...that's great!

2 hours ago, boOZZIE said:

Try it without a module and with stock o2s first . For mine it is running fine without the RB unit I had after it shat itself. 

 

My 6g mods - no snorkel/flapper/pair valves 

-K&N or Pipercross airfilter 

-all short velocity stacks

-WiLD Headers

-Micron cans

 

Interesting.  Better than stock, no lean mixture issues?   I think I mentioned elsewhere, I'm a fan of defeating closed loop control via the key switch and happy with that (no surging, etc.).  I would like a RB at some point but if I could piecemeal this out over time that would be swell too.

So I have my VFRD production headers in hand, waiting for install.  To make it work right, I think I'll likely go with the RapidBike Racing module when I get around to install it.  Does that mean it'll work with a pre-programmed map or one I can adjust, until or if I get a My Tuning Bike module that plugs into a Bosch wideband O2 sensor?  

Got my header in hand!  I should probably ask this on the Rapid Bike thread, but after looking at all the sites (which are not clear)...it looks like the Rapid Bike Race module will work with the wideband O2 sensor bung, and I don't need the You Tune module unless I want to futz with the settings while riding (I do not really...or at least not now).  Should get everything including auto tune, right?

The header is a few items down my work backlog on the bike, so not an urgent thing to figure out now.  Front suspension next, then maybe a rear suspension overhaul.  Bike is running *great* right now with the closed-loop defeat method via key switch that some 5th gen rider figured out so not in a rush.  No annoying surging on the highway at constant throttle...

Great news!  😄

6 hours ago, Dutchy said:

Sure, Pascal's law is fake news. How could I not see thus. 

Pascal's Law (P=F/A) is in effect here.  But you are thinking of (A) as constant.  In reality these three things are interrelated and change in reaction to one another.  (A)  increases in response to higher (P) as both the piston moves out and the cylinder lines expand (not to mention the caliper body bolts, or body in a single-piece).  It diffuses some of the pressure you are creating through force at the master cylinder, and results in lower overall force at the piston.  You can get to the same overall force with stretchy or stiff lines, but you will have to move the lever further for the softer lines until the forces are equalized and they are able to contain the force you want exerted at the piston.

The more constant (A) is, or more accurately the more constrained the change in (A) is limited to piston movement, then the more the change in (P) will relate to the change in (F) at the caliper.  We want (A) to remain fixed and change very little, except at the pistons.

Another way to think about it is what happens when you have a leak, or you take the top off the reservoir, etc.?  Well, (A) just went to infinity and at least in the static case, (F) is arbitrarily close to zero.  We want (A) to change very little except at one or two places.  So it's all about constraining (A).  Very high end brakes aren't just SS lines, they are also very stiff "monoblock" construction calipers to constrain changes in (A).  Think about the force exerted inside the caliper: in a two piece caliper, the force is essentially stretching the bolts holding the two halves together, whereas in a monoblock it's one big piece of metal that will be much, much stiffer and resistant to stretching.

You guys should see brake lines that are really worn out and feel them expand in your hand...it makes it much more obvious what's going on 😄

All materials in nature respond to force, pressure or otherwise.  Even when you're pressing your hand against a wall.  It may be imperceptible or trivial, but they do.  In the case of brake lines, expansion of the brake lines under pressure reduces the overall pressure.  This will reduce the overall pressure going to the piston and we'll feel it as "sponginess" or similar words.  

The ideal brake system has zero movement at the fluid boundaries except at the master cylinder and the piston.  But that's impossible in the physical universe.  So higher end brake systems will have higher degrees of stiffness at the boundaries, whether it's stiffer fluid lines, single piece vs. two piece calipers, etc.

Anyway, yes...SS braided lines do increase overall force to the brake system and reduce sponginess.  Whether it's a trivial or significant amount is both a math answer and a subjective one.  I'm pretty happy with the stock 6th gen lines at 18 years old, although admittedly I'm not pushing them very hard.  But I've changed lines on bikes that desperately needed it.  My truck could really use some SS lines, along with a couple other things.

Sent!

On 10/26/2020 at 2:33 PM, GreginDenver said:

Yes this is still happening.  It appears that we (those of us already in with deposits on the current group-purchase) have stalled out below the number of header systems required for an order to go forward to production.  So if you come in and add yourself to those who've placed deposits we'll be closer to "go!".

Ok, let me dig through this thread and see who I need to contact for a deposit.  Unless that person wants to contact me first 🙃

I just now noticed this thread.  Is this still on?  My VFR is about to pop out of a moving truck in San Diego too.  I assume it would work with stock mufflers?  Is a RB or PC necessary?  Not like I couldn't get one at the same time, just curious.  

It's strictly about noise and Honda going for overachiever status!

47 minutes ago, gmtech94 said:

I have several new OEM regulators and with the border shut down trying to get a moffset one might be difficult . All the brand new regulators have the same effect .

 

If by OEM, you mean the original Honda one...that plus your LED's could be the issue.  But the VFRness should also help too.  

Hi Anonymous,

Thank you for your donation of --. We look forward to improving the forums with your donation.

Thanks VFRDiscussion

New school regulator rectifier, or original?

15 hours ago, Terry said:

You will get value from the suspension upgrades every time you ride. It will be safer, more relaxing and more comfortable. I have never regretted suspension $$ (and I've done them on all my bikes). Ducnut was 100% correct: "You’ve had decent suspension and, now, have that experience to compare to something stock. You’re never going to be happy with stock components, from now on. "

^^^ This.  I jumped on the chance to re-purchase the VFR I sold nine years ago because it was tuned for me, by me.  The idea of buying a stock bike and even riding it for a bit before hitting the suspension mods hard has never, ever appealed to me since riding what I have.  

That being said, for the original post...when I've looked at front end conversion it falls under the column of "If you're riding hard enough for that to make a difference then you must be on a track."  At the same time I can feel the difference between the 5th gen and moderately wider/stiffer 6th gen forks in street cornering so...YMMV.  I do dump that kind of effort into my mountain bikes and adjustability for conditions and age of damping oil is a requirement, but I've just never seen it as worth the effort for the VFR on the street.  I'm sure I would feel the difference, but I have tried to constrain myself to "80% is good enough" here 😄

I remember wondering about that due to the bad drawing in the tech manual, but at the same time I don't recall finding my stacks installed that way when I first took the bike apart.

Its been a long time, but I'm pretty sure the length of the plastic differs front to back to make up for the difference in length in the intake runners below them. Anyone with a brand new VTEC want to take theirs apart for the first time to look, or does someone want to measure the difference between intake length in front and back?

From an engineering standpoint, at lower RPM where you're having issues the stack placement shouldn't affect surging for two reasons. One is that the air is moving well below the point where the intake would experience sonic choking, and its way, way too short compared to diameter at too low of a speed for friction to be significant...so runner length doesn't matter. The second is that the plastic stack is upstream from the butterfly valve. If its not entirely or almost entirely open, its interfering with the flow (by design, fuel mixing needs turbulence) and so again, the runner length doesn't matter.

This is why it doesn't matter that your airbox is discombobulated for the starter valve sync...air is too slow for significant friction or choking to occur anyway. Its also why your surging isn't entirely gone

I would suspect that your bike might have new issues at or near full throttle with different intake lengths...assuming that you're not remembering original placement better than I am :unsure:

Hyperpro designs their springs to work with the stock weight and damping of the bike. It won't overwhelm the damper. While there's no such thing as critical, under, or over damping without the linear spring, you'll still tune to approximate it and you should have enough adjustment to get too much or too little unless your damper is already dead. I had no issues with mine.

What you will notice if you ever ride a higher end shock is that the stock Honda damper is "backwards" in compression...it has lots of high speed compression damping and not enough low speed compression damping. Nothing you can really do about that...

Here's the stuff you remove in block diagram form:

PAIR valves are the same on the fifth generation VFR, so it should apply there as well.

PAIR (Pulsed Air Induction Reed) valves are an emissions control device that takes clean air from the airbox and injects it into the exhaust tract of the engine, on the backside of the exhaust valve. The main idea is that when an engine is running rich for whatever reason, particularly when you back off the throttle, the exhaust gas will have unburned fuel and no oxygen. Fuel vapors are nominally worse pollutants than combustion byproducts, so putting fresh air into the exhaust while its still hot will cause the fuel to combust inside the pipes rather than be released into the atmosphere as-is. It also keeps the catalytic converter warm so it works better.

Anyway, the wierd knocking noise you get sometimes when pressure suddenly rises in the airbox compared to the exhaust pressure is caused by these things. Your engine runs slightly more efficiently without it (how much I have no idea), but it also just sounds better.

The blue area highlights the solenoid control valve for the PAIR system. Its attached to the back of the airbox and has three large air hoses and one four-element electrical wire attached to it.

The red crosses indicate where we're removing the hoses from. One is the input to PAIR from the airbox, on the left rear corner of the airbox. Two of them supply air to the PAIR valves themselves on the valve covers.

To get to everything, you'll need to remove the airbox from the velocity stacks as if you were performing a starter valve sync. If you don't know how to do that, follow the Starter Valve sync How-To located here:

http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=7935

After you've lifted the bottom half of the airbox, start the mod by removing the PAIR hoses from the engine and airbox. Don't mistake the aft PAIR hose for the crankcase breather! (Its output is on the right rear corner of the airbox.) Then disconnect the PAIR solenoid control wire, and remove the solenoid and hoses as one piece. The solenoid "hangs" on the airbox and doesn't have any screws holding it in place, so you can just pull it off.

Since we're taking the hoses off, we need to cap the PAIR ports somehow. Several ways to do this...you can machine a cover to replace the one that's there, you can remove the cover and fill the port with JB Weld, or you can put a $2 rubber cap over it. I'm lazy so I picked the latter method. Here's what it looks like on the front side:

I used 5/8 inch rubber bypass caps from NAPA, P/N: 660-1696, and zip tied them around the base to keep them airtight.

Here's what it looks like on the back side:

To plug the airbox outlet, I used a 1/2 inch bypass cap from NAPA, P/N 660-1697, and pushed it in from the outside.

Last step is to put everything back together. Without the PAIR hose running to the front cylinders, its at least a little easier to set the airbox in place! After doing this mod the annoying knocking noise of the reed valves was gone, and the engine was slightly smoother. Of course, that's just an opinion, and I also did a starter valve sync at the same time.

Next step is evap canister removal...