Cogswell

21 minutes ago, FJ12Ryder said:

I guess I'm on the fence with all this electronic control stuff. I know it could keep some accidents from happening, but at the same time

I feel that skill should enter into the equation somewhere. I'll have to admit that I'm really ambivalent about it. Peggy's Spyder has a lot

of electronic controls and they can be a pain sometimes. You end up riding a certain way to keep from activating the "Nanny" as it's called.

I agree.  A modern muscle car is far quicker / faster than the 60s / 70s vintage cars,  but there's much less of a visceral feeling of being connected to the road and the vehicle itself.  And some of it borders on the ridiculous - "blind spot assist" or automated backing up - how about just looking or learning to drive it in all conditions?  It becomes much less interesting when it's all done for you. 

1 hour ago, thestumper said:

  

 

It's frustrating though - a 998cc V4 without the VTEC trickery, shave off 50-60 lbs., and Honda could have had a bike for the ages.  The penultimate Sports Tourer.   The gold standard by which all other "quasi-practical" motorcycles would have been measured against.   An epic icon.  

In 2010 when the 1200 was introduced, this was debated endlessly in the forum(s).  Why didn't Honda . . .  what could have been.  Many voices wanted a refined iteration of the 6th gen with with a liter displacement and sleek styling.  Had Honda done that, many of us with now 10 to 20 year old VFRs would have traded for the new one - me included.  But the 1200 wasn't my style.  A great bike - but the size, styling and shaft drive just weren't for me.  And I didn't need 1200cc (and didn't care for the 76deg formula) - 1000cc with a 90 deg block would have done it.  Basically a liter 8th gen.  To keep the VFR formula alive, after 4 years Honda reached in to the 6th gen parts bin and gave us the 8th gen - definitely more refined but it did not materially break any new ground and was not significantly different enough for many of us to reach in to our wallet.  And I didn't.  I like wrenching and modding out my 6th gen, and vs purchasing an 8th has occupied my off season time.   But hats off to Honda for making the 8th gen the best ever - some manufacturer's models just get new paint schemes and a mild makeover every year before simply disappearing.  Honda put a lot of effort in to it now enjoyed by owners and went out on top.  Unfortunately now that there are no new VFR models to endlessly dissect and debate, traffic on this forum has faded - many faces have simply moved on to something newer or lost interest in their 20 year old bike.  Keeping those bikes going seems to now be a high percentage of the new threads on the forum.  There are a few of us that will likely hang out here until we either can no longer ride or the forum has finally had its run.  In the end I personally think the VFR is one of the most under-recognized ("is that a Ducati??") and underappreciated bikes of all time.  A brilliant design - probably the best formula of all 'round bikes ever made or that ever will be.  Nothing lasts forever and the VFR was no exception.  Despite temptations for something else, I've kept riding my 6th gen and don't have any end in sight.  Honda is making zero new product that interests me (with the possible exception of the Africa Twin), so when the time comes for me to give it up, I'll likely trade for something with 4 wheels - maybe an S2000.  Regardless, my 24 years with a VFR in the garage has been a great run. 

2 hours ago, St. Stephen said:

 

Shoot! Been reading your posts and was hoping I'd convince you to help get my Honda Element down to a 1:40 at Laguna Seca.  😎

Not seeing too many toasters around these days,  let alone on the track!  

4 hours ago, TimC said:

 

 

I also wonder if - given advances in technology like computers and sensors that help things like a Segway self-balance - this type of vehicle would be more feasible today.  Electronics would take the place of the gyroscope, maybe making the whole thing lighter and more efficient.  Sensors would also help the outriggers engage and disengage automatically.

Those are great points.  A Segway is an amazing piece of technology.  Maybe we'll see something like that in the future.  It would be perfect for small villages with narrow streets.  If seeing it unaware  for the 1st time there would likely be a "WTH is that??" moment.  The developers of this were definitely forward thinkers. 

I came across this on a US series, "Chasing Classic Cars".  It has two wheels and a motor, but you sit "in" it vs on it and you do not have to balance - it does that itself.  Note that it does have outriggers to keep from tipping over.   For a design more than 50 years old, it's still quite interesting.  It never caught on - probably for one because it takes quite a while - 15 minutes - for the gyro to spool up to about 3,000 rpm.  For another despite being self-balancing, it still seems quite possible to get in to trouble with it.  So, if one worked at the motor vehicles licensing bureau, would this be licensed a motorcycle, or a car (and would you be allowed to lane split - ex considering would you want to)?  One other thing I realized, is that snagging one of the outriggers on something would end quite badly.  An interesting, but in the end unsafe and impractical design. 

https://www.lanemotormuseum.org/collection/cars/item/gyro-x-1967

16 hours ago, Ziffer said:

So, for my next question... What's the next best thing for my 2000 VFR800? Would it be worth it to buy someone's '98-'99 stock header and get rid of my cat? Or maybe bash out the inside of the cat? The bike is 21 years old now, but runs great. Is there a good aftermarket performance header available at all?

I doubt swapping for 98/99 headers is going to make any noticeable performance difference, tho it may alter the sound some presuming you have an aftermarket can on it.  The cat has multiple times the diameter of the tubes so can get exhaust gases through sufficiently to not quash power.  The VFRD headers are larger diameter than stock, so that is more impactful.  I thought losing the cat would help keep the heat down, but that wasn't particularly obvious.  Also keep in mind that your headers are stainless while the early 5th gen headers are mild steel and can corrode significantly.   Someone who's actually run other brands of headers will have to comment on that - I'm no help on there.

If you want to keep up with your buddies, you're better off getting the suspension done, taking some track time under instruction and if you need to, shed some weight from your own carcass.  I've lost some significant weight in the past year and have noticed that the 'ol girl seems to have more giddyup than before. 

6 hours ago, mello dude said:

Charging system death?

yup

For $60 shipped, you don't have much to lose.  It's a risk, but a good one.

Wow - that tube looks like it sat in battery acid vs gasoline. 

Would the fuel filter be in-line outside the tank?  I think Captain 80s is on to something.  Honda's design seems kind of kooky - difficult to service and as you have, prone to failure. 

Ok.  The boot's main function is to prevent  current from the coil taking the path of least resistance to ground rather than jumping the gap at the spark plug tip. If its degraded it may be less able to prevent that.  If you take a tool such as a small screw driver or a stir stick and place some dielectric grease on it, you can apply a thin coating of it on the inside of each boot where it contacts the plug insulator. It can help prevent the current from escaping directly to ground. No need to go crazy with it.  A thin coating is sufficient.  It may do nothing but it's cheap and if it works you have an inexpensive fix.  

As for the cost, OEM parts are not cheap and that's a specialty item, so you may just have to go with it.  However it seems to be guesswork on the mechanic's part and the issue does not seem to have been positively diagnosed.  The only other option would be ebay for a used set,  but that may be no better than what you've got.  

I paged through the parts fiche for the later carb'd bikes from early to late '90's before the switch to FI began in earnest.  ST's, Magnas, Shadows and others still seem to have petcocks available.  They don't look the same, but it might be some creative adaptation could be made to work or maybe the pieces you need could be harvested from one.  Each bike seems to have its own unique design, I suppose due to the shape of or access to each tank.  It sucks that such a critical piece is MIA from Honda.  Not sure why the run on VFR petcocks when others remain available. 

I use 3 of these on my 6th gen.

https://drainplugmagnets.com/misc_products/oil-filter-magnets/

His motto must be "Go BIG or go home" . . . 630kg - if that tipped over it would take a tow rig or 4 or 5 of one's strongest friends to hoist that thing back on its wheels.  I have to tip my hat to him - he's done some impressive engineering and fabrication to build it.  While the V-10 is impressive, if I had my way I'd use a V-8 just for being a bit more compact and having a much better sound. 

It seems plausible - here's a video of Space Shuttle tile material he mentions being picked up right after coming out of a 2,200 degree furnace.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pp9Yax8UNoM

I wonder if there are any numbers of how many 8th gens where white and how many red . . .  Personally I think white would look killer with white wheels - like the '93 3rd gen. 

7 hours ago, VFRMAN said:

I've been advised to fit new plug caps and to change all 4, guy reckons it's the most likely cause of the poor running, anyone know a good place to get them from?

Do you mean this?

Or this? 

If the latter, before doing that you might try putting some di-electric grease on the plug insulator and see if that quells the arcing to ground that may be bypassing the plug.  Plug wires that are nearly a quarter century old do tend to degrade and allow arcing or don't conduct properly - replacing them is probably good preventive maintenance.  On the other hand, as discussed above, you can eliminate that point of failure entirely by going to a COP setup.  If you want OEM, Partzilla is usually a cost effective place to get them (if they're still available). 

Looks like we've had multiple inquiries on 8th gen hard cases recently.  Seems like with every gen the cases quickly go NLA from Honda.  The topcase can be had on ebay - for my $.02 I'd jump on one of those while you can.  Don't know about the mount, tho.   Another couple of possibilities are that it seems plausible that 7th gen cases fit the 8th (no confirmation on that) and also that the VFR800X cases may also fit (though likely won't be color matched).  A search in the UK (such as ebay.co.uk) would likely be the a good place to start there, or a dealer such as Doble's in London.  The latter is where I got my 6th gen cases after there were disco in the U.S.  If importing to the US, DO NOT describe them as "luggage".  When customs hears that word, they'll classify it as hand luggage such as carry on for airline travel and will slap a duty on it - IIRC it's in the 20% range.  Motorcycle parts carry no duty from the UK in to the US, so be sure to tell them that it's "motorcycle parts" or "motorcycle bodywork", NOT luggage!  Bottom line is that 6 years after the last of the 8th gens were brought to the U.S., it will take some creativity and extended searching to turn up a set of OEM bags for these bikes. 

1 hour ago, Funkotron said:

 

 

My '98 just got around 28 mpg in similar conditions, but I managed to get it down to 23.8 one tank where we picked up the pace. I don't think I ever saw above 35 even before the headers and pc3. Are other people getting similar numbers on their 5th gens or should i get a new fuel pressure regulator?

Don't know about the FPR question - but those are very low numbers.   You should be getting close to ShipFixer's numbers.   Easy places to start looking are air filter, vacuum leaks, and if you have a temp gun, check to see that the headers near the heads are all equal temperatures.  Coolant should be in the 180 degree range +/-.  If too low you may have a cylinder not firing.  Check the plugs - they should all be a light tan and all the same and if not check the leads from the coils to plugs per the FSM. Also, do you have a tuning module installed?  If so, you might disconnect it and see what you get.  Early 5th gens rarely benefit from those - they run quite well as stock and really don't need any tuning modifications.   There are more diagnostics in the manual but those are easy / no cost things you can check to get started. 

Engine Ice is propylene glycol - there are other brands using that formulation - Sierra being one.  You can do a few searches and find the properties of it and anecdotal reports of how it does nor does not work.  One of the main attractions of it is that it's much less (described as "non") toxic than ethylene glycol but as long as one disposes of it responsibly that doesn't matter.  As for keeping the engine cooler I'm not sure it does much in that regard.  It's not just boiling and freezing point differences - the rate of heat transfer is what's going to keep the engine cool.  I don't think I'd pay $80 a gallon for it. 

If you want an economical way to change coolant, you can use the OEM coolant from a Honda car dealer.  It's the same formulation as Honda powersports coolant but the dye color is a bit different and it's way cheaper.  The last gallon of premix I bought was about $20. 

A couple of other thoughts - one being that IIRC they recommend not mixing the two coolant types, so if changing over you'll want to get as much of the old coolant out as possible.  The other is that water has a higher heat transfer rate than either ethylne or propylene glycols, so using the OEM coolant add sufficient de-mineralized water to make it a 30-70 mix vs 50-50 - still plenty of freeze protection unless you live in North Dakota and enough protection for the aluminum parts in the system.  I've been doing that for some time and it's been fine. 

1 hour ago, Sweeper said:

Jamie is a super nice guy and was great to talk to over the phone but he is apparently overrun with work. I tried to buy from him last year and after three months without anything to show we decided to drop the order. It was not a supply issue. He forgot about me twice and then still needed time to get the kit together. I don't want to disparage him or his work but feel like I owe the members here the warning. His business has grown a lot from what most here had experience with. I've talked in private with a few people from this forum who had similar issues. If you decide to go with him, ask up front about real timelines.

In the end, I ordered gold valves and springs from Racetech. I installed them myself and will say that its pretty simple and I feel better understanding how it all goes together. 

That's a valuable heads up.  An extended turnaround time would be a significant consideration.  Even for the month or so my bike was in pieces, I sweated a bit because I had a 400 pound brick sitting in my garage that I could not move until Jamie got the components back to me.  I suppose if sending parts to him, be sure the bike is situated in such a place that it will be out of the way for whatever period it might take him to get your order filled. 

11 hours ago, damionj said:

What do you mean by “fogged”?  First I’ve heard the term. 

I think it's referring to fogging oil, often sprayed in to the cylinders of engines that will not be used for long periods.  It's intent is to stick to the metal to prevent rust.  Hence the follow on comment about keeping the tank full and it won't rust.  I do that with non-ethanol fuel with stabilizer and change it out several times per year and the tank is pristine inside. 

10 hours ago, Grum said:

Wish he lived in Australia! 

1 hour ago, thestumper said:

Fort Wayne is in range for a 2 day trip for me...  I could make that happen!   Thx!!!

 

 

Grum, 

International shipping isn't cheap, but it's not necessary for an in person visit - he does the mods by taking a survey of the rider's data and self described riding style. I'm sure he's worked with customers in other countries.

thestumper:  As above,  no need to see him in person.  Actually, even if you did  I don't believe he diassembles your bike for you - you'll need to get the components to him yourself.  You'd need to verify that by contacting him tho.  Winter is the busy time as everyone wants it done in the off season. 

38 minutes ago, Grum said:

Holy Cow. Why are these pickups so frigging HUGE!

 

Because size matters . . . ! 

Grum is right - lose control of the bike while bending down to look in the site glass and you could be in a world of hurt.  As long as you're following manufacturer's recommendations, you'll be fine.  Keep the oil level correct and ride it - don't worry about it.