coderighter

Well, I think there are 2 main differences between the PCIII and PCV. The PCV gives you the option of the Autotune and most important it gives you seperate map for each gear. In watching the AFR while changing gears, it's obvious that the the stock fuel injection changes with gear. Setting up a PCIII map is going to be a compromise, depending on gear. Keep in mind, my VFR is a '06. Starting in '06 Honda changed the fuel mapping, alot. If you compare a "stock" PCIII map for an '05 to a "stock" PCIII map for an '06 you'll find the '06 adds alot more fuel. In watching the AFR readings, it starts really leaning out once you hit cruise in 4th gear, which makes sense in looking at the PCIII map. I have no way of proving this, but I believe the gear dependent fuel injection started in '06. If someone has a '02-'05 and access to an AFR meter, I'd be interested in knowing for sure. I think if you have a '02-'05 with a PCIII and it's running good for you, a PCV is not going to improve anything. Also keep in mind, the PCV costs the same (or at least really close) as the PCIII. You can use in the PCV in the single map, no Autotune, just like the PCIII but still have the options open for later. If you have a 6th gen without a Power Commander and want one, by all means, get the PCV instead of the PCIII. The picture is the top of Bear Tooth Pass - 10,947 ft. It's the road between Red lodge MT and the East entrance to Yellowstone. I'll post more pictures in my gallery later. Outstanding ride, Highly recommended!

Top of the world So a number of you asked for me to report how the PCV with Autotune performed on my trip over the last couple weeks. Well my trip took me from Seattle to Glacier National Park across the top of Montana on my way to Minot ND. After visiting friends for a couple days, I went south to Bismarck ND to visit mom for a couple days. Than I headed back west, by way of Bear Tooth Pass, to Yellowstone National Park. My path then lead north to Helena MT then around to Missoula and back to Seattle via I-94. I went from sea level to 10,947 and rode in temps from 42 to 92 degrees. The speed limit on most of the roads in Montana and North Dakota were posted 75 mph, which means I was doing 80 most of the time. I'm 6'4", 245lbs and carrying about 30lbs in a tail bag and saddlebags. I normally run 15-43 spockets but I put the 16 back on for the trip. I averaged just a hair over 40 MPG for the trip, which felt was pretty good. The bike ran great the whole time no matter the temp or attitude, very smooth, no surging or snatching. I also found I can cruise through neighborhoods 3-4K now, no problem. I believe that not only is the Autotune helpful, but having separate tables in the PCV for each gear, makes a big difference . I did, however, find a "issue" The Autotune keeps trying to tune the VTEC transition. Hitting the proper mixture doesn't make for the smoothest transition. I found this was easy fix, if set the AFR table for 6500 to zero, the PCV ignores the sensor and goes by what you set in the table at that RPM. The only problem is that it's taking a little time to get all 60 cells set, (10 throttle positions for 6 gears) but I'm almost there. All-in-all, I feel it was money well spent, best upgrade I've done. Did I gain a bunch of power? Well... no, but the bike is so much smoother and enjoyable to ride.

Yes. They don't give you alot of extra wire, so I used the one closest to the outside and capped off the other one. The PCV comes with the eliminators to cap off the stock wire connectors and fool the ECU into thinking all is well.

Yes, sorry forgot to mention that the PAIR must be by passed or the oxygen introduced will mess up your readings. It's mentioned in the manual. How many dyno shops do you think actually do this!? I should also mention that there is not such thing as realtime mixture control with a O2 sensor. When you check the exhaust with a O2 sensor, it's post mortem, the mixture has already been made and fired. The information is only good for next time, thus another reason you must still have a map. The map is just adjusted (tuned) to be correct the next time around.

MVP :biggrin: Quick question though... I was eying a gear indicator tonight, and noticed it only says it's compatible with 06-09. It reads off the ecu supposedly, and I know they did change (tweak) that in 06. Is there any ACTUAL difference, or reason it wouldn't work on an 02? I'm assuming it reads the gear in the same way the PCV would. OO... OO.... I know this one!! The gear indicator works by comparing the engine RPM to bike speed (output shaft speed). One of the things changed in '06 was some of the wiring (thank God). They changed several connectors it would seem that the places that they got the RPM or shaft speed had changed. The only connection that matters to Power Commanders is the throttle body connector which contains injectors and TPS. Here's a surprise, Honda uses the same one on almost every bike. You can make it work, it just won't be plug and play. If you're OK with soldering, I can tell you what to do to make it work. Let me know. (God, I need to call and get my OCD meds increased)

You're right, Dynojet doesn't make or support the PCV for any bike built before '09. We know that the VFR hasn't been changed since '02. We know there are 2 model numbers of PCIII listed for 6th gen one for '02-'05 (#111-411) and one for '06 to '08 (#126-411). Those parts number are the same hardware, the only difference is the preloaded map. The "411" is the hardware and the or 3 digit number is the "stock" map for that model. I ran a '02-'05 unit on my '06 for a year with no problem. If you look, most Honda's use the same hardware, just different maps, example, the '06 CBR600 is #117-411. Guess what? If someone is having a sell on '06 CBR600 PCIII you can get it change the map, and you're good to go. Sorry back to your question the bike, other than color, hasn't changed from '08 to '09. Like I said before the maps for the '06-'08 PCIII are the exact same as the '09 maps for the PCV. The only difference is the addition of a 15% throttle settings that the PCIII doesn't have. Why they decided not to back support years of current bike models I don't know for sure. Maybe the parts for the PCIII are cheaper (older technology) and there's a bigger profit margin? Perhaps they have a large stock of PCIII parts they need gone? I don't know. If you want one just order one for a '09, it will work just fine. Also, as a side note, there are 2 models of Autotune. AT-100 for the Harley folks and AT-200 for everybody else. On the Harley's, they do each cylinder separate, so the kit includes to complete units for $349. The other kit, with a single unit, is $199. So if you and a friend get together, you each save $25. The Autotune has no brains, it really a repackaged Wideband 2 unit. It only supplies the info to the PCV.

The O2 sensor is a "common" Bosch unit used in automotive apps has a rated life of 100,000 miles. There's no reason to put the factory units back in.

So why even use a map? Why not let the autotune hit the correct AFR without a baseline map at all, if it just varies from it anyway? that's what I'm wondering the auto tune(wideband) should "auto tune" it everytime you ride. you should have no need for maps. It should tune on the fly to keep everything at the proper AFR no matter what mods you've done or how your riding it. Or so I thought??? On top of the getting close, then fine tuning (as Bailyrock pointed out), keep in mind that a O2 sensor needs to be hot to work so you need the map to run until you get up to temp. The PCV has a set up for temp and/or time before you start taking the info from the O2 sensor.

In a Power Commander you set up a table where you add or subtract a percentage of fuel from the stock setup at a given RPM and throttle position with the hopes of hitting a certain AFR. With the Autotune you are able to create a table of AFR ratios, again base on RPM, throttle position, and (in the case of the Power Commander 5) gear. You start with a table like you used to used in the old Power Commander, percentage of change. The Autotune uses a wideband O2 sensor to measure the AFR and alter the mixture to match the AFR table, realtime. The Power Commander saves the difference between the percentage table and what it takes to hit the AFR for a given throttle, RPM, and gear combo, this is called the trim table. When you get home, you can check the trims and if you like them you can update your percentage table to include them. The bike always runs on the correct AFR, updating the table with the trims just helps create a more correct start points and allows you to keep track of changes.

That's one whats great things about separate maps (and target AFRs) for each gear. I forgot to mention that on top of leaning out the cruise area a little (13.9), I also richen it up a little at 100% throttle as compared to the other gears. I'm thinking I'll be able to lean out the cruise into the 14's considering that the factory is going with 14.6 when it goes into closed loop steady cruise. I don't think I'll ever try and limbo that low, I think rideablity suffers at that point. By the way, the target Dynojet uses for cruise area on 6th gen is 13.7.

So I can't leave well enough alone. I sold my PC3 in hopes of reaching fuel injection nirvana, and I think I've reached it. Why, well you gain one more throttle table (15%), separate maps for every gear (more on this later), and Autotune. I had checked the Dynojet site and downloaded the maps and software for the '09 PCV. There are 3 maps for the PCV. These are the same 3 maps they have for the '06-'08 PCIII. When you open the PCV maps they are the exact same as the PCIII maps, number for number. The only difference is the addition of the 15% table. I found the PCV at More Power Racing for $279 to my door. Motorcycle Superstore had the Autotune for $199 to my door. I got Motorcycle Superstore to match More Power Racing, and I ordered the whole thing from them. More Power Racing is in Washington state and I would have had to pay sales tax. Note: The PCV comes with the O2 eliminators, so in most cases, the PCV will actually cost you less then the PCIII, unless you do the homemade eliminators. I opened both PCIII program, with my current map, and PCV program. I copy and pasted 0%-10% then 20%-100% from my old file to a PCV file. I then made the 15% the difference between 10% and 20%. When I received the goods I installed just the PCV alone and installed my old, new map, and went for a ride. The bike runs just as before, proving the app works. So now for the Autotune. The Autotune went right in, piece of cake. When the install is done you must calibrate the TPS, speed, gear, and temp. I took this time to do a little investigating. When I was calibrating the speed and gear, I did a run just to check the air fuel ratio in all gears and I can tell you that what gear you are in, affects mixture. Makes you wonder what they do when you take it to a dyno and they do a pull in just one gear? I'm not sure if the gear thing is the same for '02-'05, but the PCV will work just fine on them given the same physical PCIII works on '02-'08. Anyway, I made some slight changes to the AFR targets in 5th and 6th gear to help mileage in the cruise area, other then that I went with the pre-made AFR targets that are in all three of the maps they have on line. So, how does it run-- Outstanding! I very happy, well worth the money (sold the old PCIII to help offset the cost). 5 star Mod. I'll report the gas mileage after I get back from my trip to North Dakota (family), leaving Tuesday.

If you use the part number N0006.1AD at the HD, you get the pair together for $25.00. The valve guide gives a nice fit with no modes to the bike, using the stock pin.

You can save yourself $10 by getting the pegs as a package set #N0006.1AD. Also, go to your local machine shop and get a bronze valve guide. There is a common size that will adapt the peg to the bike. It will fit into the peg by heating the peg in the oven and putting the bushing in the freezer for a couple hours. I forget the size of the guide, just take the peg and pin with you, one guide cut in half will work. I did end up slightly enlarging the center of the guide. The easiest way to do this is to put the drill bit in a bench vise and chuck the guide in the drill motor, before you cut it. If you try to do it the normal way, you'll ruin the guide trying to hold it. I believe I paid $32.00 plus tax for the pair at the local HD dealer. I did not have to use an insert bushing. Works great without it. If you use the part number N0006.1AD at the HD, you get the pair together for $25.00. The valve guide gives a nice fit with no modes to the bike, using the stock pin.

You can save yourself $10 by getting the pegs as a package set #N0006.1AD. Also, go to your local machine shop and get a bronze valve guide. There is a common size that will adapt the peg to the bike. It will fit into the peg by heating the peg in the oven and putting the bushing in the freezer for a couple hours. I forget the size of the guide, just take the peg and pin with you, one guide cut in half will work. I did end up slightly enlarging the center of the guide. The easiest way to do this is to put the drill bit in a bench vise and chuck the guide in the drill motor, before you cut it. If you try to do it the normal way, you'll ruin the guide trying to hold it.

This link I found has all the answers to all your ratio / gearing questions, check it out. http://www.gearingcommander.com/