marid2apterbilt

How about Red powder coat or annodized.

Fork lowers, wheels and rrearsets/passenger pegs.

I dont think there is a difference between the F4 and F4I fork INTERNALS. ( I may be wrong)

BR should be able to comfirm all your current questions..

I dont own a 5th gen so dont qoute me on this, Just my thoughts..

Running it thru BOTH rads before returning to the motor may be too much (Read as too much cooling) and not let it run at a sufficient operating temp.

Example : 6th gen runs thru 1 rad untill above ?170F? then the T-stat opens allowing flow to the other rad. Soichiro bypassed 1 rad due to a leak on a 6th gen but found it Insufficient to only use 1 rad.

There may be other engineering issues associated with doing this.. IE: Water pump flow and pressure ?

Check the length on the F3 cartridge itself. THe only parts I used for my F4/6thgen conversion were the rebound rod and attached rebound valve. I tried using the F4 cartridge but it was too short and didnt let the forks extend fully..

Sam,

I don't see how it would be possible to Not use the F4/F4i cartridge and expect to have any rebound adjustment as the length of the rebound rod is specific to the length of the cartridge. If you used the longer VFR cartridge the adjusting rod end(needle part) would be no where near the valve orifice it's trying to regulate!

You dont need the f4cartridge itself as it is too short to work properly with the VFR upper and lower fork tubes, You do need to use the VFR cartridge with F4/F4I internals inside it..

.. The Adj rod, and hollow rebound rod with rebound valve on the end is all. Well you need the fork cap too.. And yes it does work..

The F4 adj rod end (needle part) is specific to the rebound rod itself(Hollow tube w/ rebound valve on 1 end and bolts to the fork cap on the other)

If you use the F4 cylinder cartridge in the VFR forks the rebound valve actually tops out on the cartridge itself instead of the built in stops inside the forks. And will also pulll the Comp valve thru the bottom of the cartridge destroying the C-Clip that holds it inside the cartridge..

not sure if Im right but I refer to the cartridge as the long -+1" tube that the rebound valve rides inside of..

..

And how about us poor people, who don't have RaceTech gold valves. Do we use the F3 or the VFR compression valve?

This is also my big question right now.

I have the F3 iterials (thanks SEB !) just no racetech valves

You will REUSE the F3rebound valve atttached to the Rebound adjustment rod..

I did this with a 6th gen and F4 parts.

So.

F3 interials whit F3 rebound valve and VFR compression valve and VFR spring, and outer upper and lower tubs.

Got it right?

Check the length on the F3 cartridge itself. THe only parts I used for my F4/6thgen conversion were the rebound rod and attached rebound valve. I tried using the F4 cartridge but it was too short and didnt let the forks extend fully..

Remember I did this with F4 parts not F3 on a 6th gen but I assume it shoudl be about the same either way..

I also had to reshim the rebound valve but that is a whole other subject..

And how about us poor people, who don't have RaceTech gold valves. Do we use the F3 or the VFR compression valve?

This is also my big question right now.

I have the F3 iterials (thanks SEB !) just no racetech valves

You will REUSE the F3rebound valve atttached to the Rebound adjustment rod..

I did this with a 6th gen and F4 parts.

This is Interesting, Wanna make several adapters ?

I also have a set of '04-'07 CBR1000RR Vortex rearsets sitting in my closet, with a 600RR rear master cylinder. I need to have new mounting plates machined to slap them on, which is also on the "to do" list...

A hand pump vacumn bleeder for brakes works well also, I have the Correct tool now but the first time I just Zip tied the hose of a brake bleeder to a Bent clothes hanger and hung it on the side of the fork, Works well. If you oops and fill the fork to the top once you get the fluid flowing to the cup hold it below the level of the forks, remove top off of the cup and let it drain back into the bottle, Walla your done..

There are probably 100 ways to get the same results..

glad to see you made your way out to the shop!

only question with this technique is that i thought getting that screw out of the bottom was a royal pain in the Arse...yes?

is it somehow easier using f4i shocks?

I have Not made it out to the shop yet! :dry:

This work was done prior to my crash! :fing02:

I've never had an issue removing the bottom fork bolt as long as I keep the fork fully assembled and us a Impact wrench! :blush:

A Impact wrench is the biggest key factor here for removal, A little pressure from the forks being intact allows the quick Banging action of the Impact to work.. Like lightly holding a wrench on a bolt while using a Impact, You dont need much...

There is an even BIGGER misconception that they only protect the frame. I guess my bike tipping over or someone doing stunts at 5 MPH and their bike tips over is going to total their bike? They are meant to do a number of things... not just protect the frame. You don't have to be a 40 year vet of street riding or a 5 year vet of these forums to know that.

Yes it can happen...

The best protection is to leave it in the crate..

A simple tip over in the garage can total a VFR.. Check a parts fisch for the right or left side parts + a Radiator and a front nose fairing. If any of these are craccked its replaced.. If your unlucky enough as I was that something is near by to dent your tank also its definately up to and over 2-3000.00 damage ..

Brake pedal, rearset, rear fairing, front fairing, left or right side fairing, Radiator, Bar end/Grip/Or Clipon, Brake/Clutch lever, headlight, Gas tank, Exhaust Can...................... All these can easily be damaged in a simple tip over.....

I think this thread has been hijacked, but I'd like to address a couple things

First, I was taught to always downshift when coming to a stop for 2 reasons. The first is so that you are always in a gear to accelerate quickly if the need a raises. The second being the nature of motorcycle transmissions are that it's really best that you engage all gears up and down. I've been told, pulling in the clutch and down shifting 4 or so gears without ever releasing the clutch between, is not the best thing for the tranny. Is this not true?

As far as installing a vacuum switch to light the brake light not being legal, how would they ever know that the brake light went on because of the vacuum switch or because you tapped the brake? All anyone would notice is that the bike slowed down and the taillight came on, makes sense to me. Why, in a world of people riding around with aftermarket pipes (most minus inserts), would they ever question what made the brake light come on when a motorcycle slowed down? :huh:

So the question remains, but let me clairify. The switch would be set rather high. High enough so that you could close the throttle at 5 grand in 6th and there wouldn't be enough vacuum to close the switch, not alot of engine braking there. However, you close the throttle at 6 grand in 3rd, you're going to feel the engine braking and the bike will pull a greater vacuum closing the switch and lighting the "brake light". I'm not talking about having the light come on whenever you close the throttle, only when there's enough engine braking to compare to actually using the brakes. How could this be a bad thing?

Sorry if I helped to the :laugh: But I do agree with you except for the setpoint for it to come on..

6Krpm is 6K no matter what gear your in the vacumn at closed throttle will be the same.

you could easily use a EGR valve off a car, attaching the switch to the exhaust gas bypass pin and using a vacumn line from just about anywhere on the motor to activate it.. Im not sure if they sell Adj vacumn swithches but a EGR valve should be easy to come by in a junk yard ($5 ?) and should already be somewhere close to the vacumn pressure you will need. Others might know more about the best way to do this or in your research..

Not to mention heavy engine braking really eats up tires fast..

Really? I have never hear of that before? I imagine it works over the rear tire - but does it work over the rear tire than..say if you are just using front and back brakes at the same time? I tend to ride in a style that is suited to the "pace" that is not so much brake and more or less off throttle before the turn, engine braking I suppose then on the gas as soon as I have set my lean angle as soon as possible. I am not a knee dragger either so I am not blazing into turns so fast either.

I rarely use my rear Brake, Mostly fronts only, @ hirevs and engine braking will eat a rear tire quickly, I have noticed this mainly on twisty roads like the gap. You can literallly Eat up a rear tire in no time engine braking when railing the twisties. @ 9 or 10000 rpms you might as well be standing on the rear brake pedal if your in 2nd or 3rd gear Closed throttle... Lower gearing has even more effect.. Almost like locking up the rear tire..

take my word for it Dont go fully closed throttle in 3rd gear 13000 rms, you wont like the feeling of the rear tire trying to slide around onn you..

2. Rear Sets, looking for something to replace the standard brake and gear sets with.

http://www.satoracing.com/

Just use your brakes when you are coming to a stop. They're a lot cheaper to replace than the drive train and transmission parts you are stressing by down shifting to stop. I can't think of too many city braking situations where I have to use race style down shifts to stop for the red light etc. Don't give Honda anymore wild ideas for the next VFR.

Not to mention heavy engine braking really eats up tires fast..

VFR800R....

Raising the rear will Quicken turn in some, Effects of doing this too much will induce Instability/Head Shake/ Tank slappers. The little bit that the Adjuster for the chain would raise the bike will not raise it to the pint of being unstable, Other factors would have to be added to this..

So what is the final ration of a 17 tooth front ?

Reshimmed the stock valves today but I have kinda hit a wall so to speak..

1 fork when compressed and the adj rod turned all the way to full hard shows that it is working as you can see it returns rather slowly.

The other fork seems a little stiffer on the return but nowhere near like the first. I have torn this fork down 3 times and put it back together but cant seem to find the problem.. I am more than positive that the shim stacks on both are identical, Checked them with a digital caliper twice..

Im stumped.....

The comp seem fine its the Rebound that I really woould like to adjust some...

Pm sent..

A few more questions for thoswe with more knowledge than I..

BR, Seb, JD and any others..

BR..

In a linked post you went to a .95kg front and 19kg rear springs.. Would my 1.0kg front and 18kg rear setup (per racetech) cause handling issues with the front, Reccomendations ? The front does like to slip at the exit of a turn while on the Gas, Usually when coming out of a Knee dragging angle..

SEB and Jamie.. or who ever else..

I recently found some info that detailed the teardown of OEM valves, As I have not done this to any of mine yet this is still basically theroretical.. I also found a site that sells Suspension valve shims.

http://mx-tech.com/?id=products&cat=12

My theory is to add a few Shims to the Rebound stack only. But with no experience I have no idea where to start with size or how many... Also after 4 hrs of Google pages I couldnt find any info on where to start with shim sizes etc... even ttried to find a shim stack calculator but couldnt find one...

Can anyonne reccomend a Shim stack configuration using Oem valves and 10wt oil and 1.0 Kg front springs ?

Sam, quick question?

Whats on the rear?

I ask this because if you still have a stock rear shock/spring it will have a major effect on what your feeling! If you have a different rear shock and correct rear spring than ignore this post, if not read this thread. :rolleyes:

http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/lofiver...php/t19943.html

Turns out running a soft/stock rear spring with new stiffer screwed up feel on both ends because the stiff front transferred more weight to the already to soft rear making it feel worse and the stiffer front tended to bounce across many bumps and irregular surfaces instead of absorbing them. Felt fine on smooth roads and had greatly improve anti dive, but the rougher the road surface got the worse the front felt. :beer:

Qouted from first post..

Current Bike setup..

1.0kg sonic springs in OEM forks (All Stock)

18kg rear spring W/ CBR600F4I Rear shock.

Rear shock Lengthened 3/8-+ inches for a total ride height increase of 1.5" (Cant go any higher with OEM parts)

Thanks BR...

Working on getting it sorted out the last little bit. The Comp side IMHO feels fine as is, It is the little Bumps that the rebound side is having a issue with (sounds like Enzed-Viffer's issue) It is almost like a out of balance tire bouncing. But at lower than Hiway speeds..

No more big shake your head type of bouncing as before but a lot of little bitty bounces.. If that makees any sense..

Gonna take a look at a set of valves in pieces and see and or try 15wt oil first.. I may buck up and get a set of racetech valves but for now I dont have the cash..

Jamie D....

I think the key to your experience in your post is that your revalving the forks (I assume Racetech valves) Which from the many posts I have seen on revalve setups with racetech valves take much lower wt oils by design..

Enzed...

Thanks for the info....

I added the 1.o kg springs some time ago (I weigh 225lbs) It didnt seem tooo bad at this setup with stock oil but on ocassion it would feeel bouncy on some rough roads, Currently it feels better, Not too stiff.. The bouncy feeling Im having now feel like very small rises in pavement but you cant see the changes in the pavement. Best way to describe is a Out of balance tire, But instead of it bouncing at Hiway speeds its usually below 70mph, Actually backwards from a out of balance tire..

Before this rebound adj project I was thinking of using 15 wt oil with the stock Reb/Comp valves and my 1.0 springs.. It almost seems too soft on the valving.. I havve also considered .95 springs but Im gonna play with it a bit before I go that route.. The 1.0kg springs feel really good at my weight, Not too harsh or too soft. Im a good sized person at 225lbs and 6' 4".. Geared up I weigh 238lbs..

Damn I wish I was home most wknds like everyone else, It wouuldnt take me so long to get it all sorted out then

FYI - The stock VFR fluid is 5w and you should stick with it.

There really isn't a lot of difference between the F4/i internals and the stock VFR800 parts. The biggest difference is the external rebound adjustments (fork caps). You would have/want to keep the VFR compression assembly as the CBR's is setup for an external compression adjustment which you won't get on the VFR. Because of this, there are some tricks to getting it setup properly.

The swap really consists of changing the damping rods only. You should keep the VFR cartridge tube and compression valve assembly. Replace the VFR damping rods, rebound valves and fork caps with the CBR parts. Be careful to check the spring preload as the spacer length needed is usually different than stock VFR length. If you are bothering to go through this much work, you should also replace the springs with ones matched to your weight also.

Yeps thats what I said , Did, and posted above aside from the fork oil..

Every thing I have found leads to stock oil being 10wt. Are you sure it is 5wt ? Also several in this thread mentioned that 7 and 5wt oil was to light when they completed this mod.

A very well seasoned Local mechanic sugested I try 15wt after taking a test ride with the current 10wt oil i put in there..

I upgraded the springs last year, Front and rear.. 1.0 fronts and 18kg rear..

Ok I finally got all the parts sorted that I needed and a few mods along the way.. First off the parts you will need from a Honda CBR F4/F4I..

Fork Cap

Rebound valve and adj/connector rod.

Yes that is all you need, you dont need the F4 Catridge tube, Just everything associated with the F4 rebound..

Disassemble the VFR cartridge removing the dampening rod with attached Reb valve, Insert F4 dampening Rod with attached Reb Valve and reassemble.

Important Notes....

I highly reccomend cutting a new spacer for the spring 1/4 to 1/2" longer than you need. When complete you will only have about 1/4 of preload Adjustment Or Less IF YOU DON"T DO THIS..

As one of my earlier worries of the rebound valve topping out, That is a NON- ISSUE..

With 10wt oil and 1.0kg front springs the F4 valve still isnt stiff enough with the adjuster all tthe way in.. I reccomend addding 1-3 shims to the valve if possible.. I plan to research this soon.. Or use 15wt Fork oil.. I think the First would be better. This is also a sugestion from Ken Wheeler, I took the bike to him this morning to get it dialed in. He made a few adjustments to the front and rear and noted that he didnt like the feel from the rear being so high. Alsso If I lower the rear some this will help with my problems with the front.. It rides much smoother now in the rear also since his adjustments.. So I will be tearing it all apart again this winter or early spring..

My overall view of the F4 Rebound fork Mod..

So far it is somewhat of a Improvement as I still have a few issues to address with its function. It feels much better than before at High speeds and soaks up major road hazards very well.. I took it over cracked pavement and couldnt feel a single bump, Even hit a piece of tire at 70mph and barely felt it.. At low speeds its still a bit bouncy/POGOey. So a few minor changes will have to be made as I noted above.

Further refinement shouldnt cost much (Fork Oil) so Im going to guess a total cost of around 225.00 - 250.00 (Price includes New Sonic springs)(assuming you find the F4 parts for around 100.00) for a compliant front end.. Add in a set of RaceTech valves for 400.00 for a total of 625.00 and you will have a very compliant setup with Adjustable Rebound..

In theory and I wish I had this thought before.. Also its gonne be 3 weeks tilll I can comfirm..

I just not OCD with a tape measure, But I will play with the functionality of something till im satisfied its RIGHT..

You should be able to just use the Reb valve and comp Rod in the Vfr cartridge. The Rod/Reb valve is gonna top out regardless I assume. and I may have to build a litle preload into the Spacer length when I put them together for the final time.. I had to buy some more 1" Electricl schd 40 pvc so I have a 10ft piece at the house to play with..

Hopefully someeone who did this mod will eventually stop in n post..

You should have about 1" or a bit more of preload spacing from the top of the fork tube to the bottom of the cap before assembly. And never reuse any fluid for anything! Its also the best insurance to have clean new fluid going back in what ever you have taken apart. .02

Im bbeginning to wonder if anyone has even read this thread..

Yes Im going to use New fluid..

Due to using F4 internals the 1" may not apply.. The F4 forks are shorter than VFR forks and Im mixing the components of both to gain rebound Adjustment in the OEM VFR forks....

In theory and I wish I had this thought before.. Also its gonne be 3 weeks tilll I can comfirm..

I just not OCD with a tape measure, But I will play with the functionality of something till im satisfied its RIGHT..

You should be able to just use the Reb valve and comp Rod in the Vfr cartridge. The Rod/Reb valve is gonna top out regardless I assume. and I may have to build a litle preload into the Spacer length when I put them together for the final time.. I had to buy some more 1" Electricl schd 40 pvc so I have a 10ft piece at the house to play with..

Hopefully someeone who did this mod will eventually stop in n post..

Sam, there are different lengths, but it doesn't seem to matter! I assumed you do just as you did by using the complete F4i cartrige w/ VFR comp valve. I'm not sure if you can or can't use the longer VFR tube body? I think the F4/F4i tubes have two large port holes in them different than the VFR tubes, I also don't remember if that aluminum spacer is used or not. :excl:

Sorry, been to long since I've read about this swap!

BR

Reason Im asking is the F4I cartridge is too short to be able to apply preload.. Adj the preload once they are together just lengthens the fork tubes..

The parts Fiche shows a similar aluminum spacer for the F4 as the one in the bottom of the VFr forks.

Guess I will tear them apart again when I get home and measure the cartridge tubes, If it is the case that the vFR tubes are longer I will use those.. The extra length from the VFR cartridges will help keep the fork length a little closer.. and may be that little extra that is needed..

VFR Capt Bob..

No Im not rushing it. I never get in a hurry, I just had to leave midday to go back on the road.. I knew I didnt have time to finish. Unfortunately Im not home everynite like most people so I cant just walk into the garage and do what ever.. I also knew I didnt have the fork oil or guage.. I will finish it some time when I get baclk again.. Until then I have plenty of time to ponder on the situation or order things I may need for the project..

My problem is the longer I have to think about it the more O.C.D. kicks in. But I have never forgot to tighten a nut or bolt.. I always check 2 or 3 times to make sure all nuts and bolts are in or tight.. real pita when your replacing a engine or rebuilding a tranny.. As for the Race tEch Instructions.. There are no Racetech parts being used..