Bren

Looks nice and very well done but all that work and the standard forks and cbs brakes? C'mon.

I like the coolant expansion tank though, if that's what is. Über cool.

Hi Anonymous,

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Macgyver worthy 🍻

How much did the TiNi coating on the forks run you??

came already done. looks good, I like. Also came with the preload adjusters and the R&G axle sliders. I wouldn´t have bought these myself so it was nice to get them included.

bike looking really good these days, you´ve been busy.

This is what I did last year, haven´t been here for a long time due to various reasons.

Similar to what JHZ is thinking. Took a bit of fitting, removal and grinding multiplied by 10!! But better to take off small bits of material at a time and get it right the first time. Bolt has been changed to a Grade 12. Drilled right through the lower, didn´t trust just tapping a thread. Solid as a rock and relatively easy, just takes patience.

and here it is all buttoned up

Hope this helps or ask if not.

oh I did have to trim ever so slightly the fairing inner towards the front because of the pinch bolts on the lower, very minor and could´ve left it but, well, you know..................

oh again, I drilled the hole in the solid alu bar off center so that I had more meat to the headstock side, for grinding etc. I think it was 25mm dia. I may consider getting them welded to the lower one day.

Good going Bren.

I agree about the comment you or someone else made about re-installing the LBS. I'd rather poke myself in the eye with a sharp stick. Taking the brake "system" off the bike has been the biggest PITA yet. I'm down to the bracket that runs from one side of the frame to the other behind the shock. Got all of the lines off (and yes, I got so frustrated with one line I just took some big ass cutting pliers and cut the SOB to get it off). Tonight will be removal of the shock so I can get the big "U" shaped bracket out from the internals of the bike. Big fingers and tiny spaces aren't a good combination.

Been spending a lot of time making up a "de-link" connector. I made one out of 316 SS and it looks good, but it was a learning exercise. Making the final one now. It's basically an H shaped piece with one leg short and the leg to the middle port long. I made it this way so I can bolt the new brake line to the outside of the rear most port. With this configuration, I can run any brand of brake line I want and not worry about the thickness of the middle port banjo fitting. Having to do lots of jig work as I'm trying to get it dead solid perfect to the thousandths of an inch. Ralph (Tok Tokkie) gave me some great pointers on working with silver solder to hook all of this up.

Forks are still at Ohlins. They took them apart and the PO had broken one of the rebound damping screw rods. Wheels are back from the paint shop and they are gorgeous.

BTW, did we ever figure out the difference between "twanged" and "pranged"? :wub:

Twanged is when it goes on with a rubber mallet, Pranged is when the sledgehammer is called into service :blush:

Luckily all on fleabay is not complete crap.

Been waiting for you to update your thread on the rear caliper bridge line. Fancy making 2 ?????

PO´s should not be allowed to work on their bikes, they will only bugger it up. Only " WE " can do it right and not cock it up :idea3:

Still waiting on pics Pete

So not to start another thread...

I noticed my forks were different lengths WTF? Measured while together and came to 6mm. I hadn´t intended taking the forks completely apart but as the fork seals needed changing I decided to take them to bits and find out where the difference came from. Well you gotta dont you?

Difference in rod length 6mm + beer

You can see the rod length difference in this pic. 6mm. I don´t know why but the PO had obviously been in there and had the lower locking nut in a different position to the nut on the other fork. He must have noticed when he took the wheel out at some stage but chose to either ignore it or hit it into submission.

Thats whats left over from the special Christmas beer...mmmmm 8% beer happy days :wub:

Heres all the new bits installed on the slider.

New seals & bushings

:idea3: Bren

So I found the offending Bastage. The new, to me, upper fits perfectly as it should, exactly as everyone elses. Well I wouldn´t want to be different would I? :idea3:

new upper

Big thanks to all the replies, especially the extra effort from a certain few :wub:

Bren

Bren:

As the steering stem itself is pressed into the lower triple clamp from the bottom, I'm thinking more that the stem may possibly not seated correctly in the lower. Not so much an actual "U" shaped bend in one of your pieces.

Can you get access to a press, use a socket of that will just fit into the recess on the bottom of the stem make sure it's seated in there good?

As far as what I have on the upper, my purchase was such a mish mash of parts it's unbelieveable. To the best of my knowledge, it is an SP-2 upper. It fits on the steering stem dead perfect, no gap, no nothing.

I've got a 929 gull wing style on order from RonAyers. It is on back order until the 22nd. If you want the one I have when mine comes in to check things with, you are welcome to it.

You and Fotomoto I think have the right attitude about this whole project. I said it before and I'll say it again, if you don't get the steering stem/upper triple correct, you'll never get one of these inverted fork swaps to work.

You're doing the right thing about being overly cautious/anal at this point in the project.

Pete

Good points Pete. I´ll be sure to check the lower out also.

When I came across this difference I couldnt believe it. I started to worry all the difficult to find, read expensive, pieces were scrap. The thought of having to put the whole LBS system back on again wasnt very appealing either.

I´ll post some photos when I find the offending piece(s) :rolleyes:

Looking for another 954/929 upper, there´s very few about right now on ebay. Unless someone knows if a cbr600RR or something else fits?

Bren

Ps appreciate the offer for the upper but I´m gonna look for a straight cbr piece.

Bren, did you buy the upper RC51 plate, and the lower RC51 triple from the same seller? My thinking is that both parts came from the same bike. and both parts are tweaked. That why they fit together. The parts I got from flea-bay are tweaked. Nothing lined up. The one lower, I could see the bend at where the stem and lower fit together. The other lower had a crack in it. On the upper. One corner of it was bent down some.

The SP1 upper and lower look to be in great condition. No obvious dings or bangs.

I can see what you´re thinking, especially when one has already been stung, and its completely valid. If the set had a bump as a set then they would still fit together although tweaked. But this would also mean that it wouldn´t sit perfect in the headstock, which my set does. I´m not trying to convince myself that its only the cheap part thats tweaked, therefore saving a lot of swearing, and I mean a lot, but if I can tighten the locknuts etc down to torque spec etc and it still turns free and smooth then I call that straight.

Thanks for the thoughts :fing02: Thats how these things are resolved.

Bren

again nice Öhlins, when you gonna be finished ?

So v-blocks I know and can organise but what are these surface plates? Never heard the term, unless you mean 2 straight edges to "eye" down the length of the forks, which I did in the lower triple and they were parallel at every point I tried.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surface_plate

Thick glass would be the poor man's surface plate.

Aha. Well a kitchen granite worktop it will have to be. That will determine the plane of the upper but any ideas for the lower and stem?

Bren

Are you sure it's a tweaked upper? A tweaked steering stem could create the same condition as you and Bren are having.

You have two parts that will not fit together properly. How do you determine which is the good one and which is the twanged one?

Process of elimination - check the CBR U.T. first, because the '51 piece fits. What he needs to do is double and triple check EVERYTHING, and properly. This means v blocks, dial indicators, and surface plates Bren! :rolleyes:

I think the idea of process of elimination is the logical next step. I gotta check the CBR upper to see if thats borked first, the pane of glass trick and measuring the "parallelnessises" is what I´ll do here.

As a few others have said, I do hope they´re wrong, that maybe the lower triple is tweaked. What is the best way to check the lower triple? Pane of glass trick again but that will only tell me if its tweaked in the North South plane. What about the stem? I assume it should be at 90 degrees to the lower, as was rightly pointed out earlier, that for our VFR, steering angle is taken care of by the frame neck, some raked choppers can also have it in the triple.

I´m thinking if the stem were borked that even the SP1 upper wouldn´t fit down on it as straight as it does. I cant see it that landing a wheelie hard could twist the lower, crash different matter, and/or bend the stem. If so it wouldn´t fit as good as it does in the headstock, with the bearings locknuts etc. I will check it but I thinking no to that one.

So v-blocks I know and can organise but what are these surface plates? Never heard the term, unless you mean 2 straight edges to "eye" down the length of the forks, which I did in the lower triple and they were parallel at every point I tried.

One other thing I remember is the 954 upper was rather difficult to get on. Its been a week now but I´m sure it took more effort to slide/push/tap down the forks than the SP1 upper. Hmmmmmm

Thanks for the GREAT advice guys :fing02:

Nice Öhlins Rusty!! (insert finger licking good emoticon)

Complete overkill I am sure, but here you go:

***applause***

:fing02: Above and beyond.

WOW Thanks for the responses folks :wheel:

There is only the triples and forks fitted no other appendages to skew things, fender, wheel, etc.

To check for straightness....

I used 2 straight edges across the forks, no upper triple, and viewed from above to see if they lined up. No problem there.

I also turned the forks in the lower triple to see if they somehow managed to align themselves with the upper. Nothing.

I had considered the lower bearing race wasn´t seated properly and "Triple" checked this (sorry)

After much thought, the time to read this post, I have come to the conclusion that you all have unsafe front ends and must stop riding immediately!! :cool: :wheel: :ohmy: Please send all of your uppers, hehe, to me and I´ll dispose of them in a humane and ethical manner.

OR, maybe, probably, I need to get a new upper triple. I will check it and report back but it looks likely. At least its a cheap part.

Thanks again everyone at least I dont have to worry about something more serious.

Bren

The de facto set-up [is an] SP1 lower triple with the CBR929/954 upper.

Check all the SP1/2 swaps, they have gone this route.

The CBR929/954 lower works as well. I had an SP-1 lower whose top nut threads gave out - replaced with a CBR lower.

How do you mean "gave out" Rick? Not threaded in enough and too much force on the used threads?

Something is definetly not straight. I can attest to both those triples being easily interchangeable without any force nor modifications as I've had both in hand and swapped them back and forth on the bike with forks in place and everything buttoned up.

I suspect the gullwing triple is at fault, as if it were anything else, stem, bearings, frame, then you'd have the exact same problem with BOTH triples.

I´m thinking you and Seb may be on to something.

Will have to check and report back.

Ebay so that of course means it could be anything

Amen to that statement Bren.

Hows yours going Pete?

What upper triple are you using?

Rake and trail is a culmination of headstock angle, triple offset, and fork length, so your assumption is not necessarily correct.

Nor necessarily incorrect.

I have a similar setup to Bren and mine was a very tight fit too (954 upper). Since everything was used but sold as "straight", I just assumed something wasn't. Also like Bren, I had another one (in my case a cbr1000rr upper) that slid on smoothly. I run a cbr1000rr lower.

Again since everything I have is used, I can't say with 100% certainty what is correct but I'm now leaning towards the 954 is a tad different.

Jamie, the early cbr1000rr uppers are gullwing and will work but they are "cosmetically challenged" because of the electronic steering damper mounting points.

Good to hear, I was starting to think I was the only one and/or something was seriously "unstraight".

So Foto what did you use in the end, the 954 or 1000rr? If the 954 Hammer or Grind?

Bren

Well after further research the rake and trail of both bikes is different.

Honda RC51/SP1

Rake: (Caster Angle) 24.5 degrees

Trail: 100.5mm (3.96 inches)

Honda CBR954

Rake (Caster Angle): 23.45°

Trail: 97mm (3.8 inches)

Honda CBR 929

Rake: (Caster Angle) 23.8 degrees

Trail: 97mm (3.8 inches)

This must mean the offset is different and therefore the upper triples must be different. Hence my 2.5-3mm difference.

Bren

Rake and trail is a culmination of headstock angle, triple offset, and fork length, so your assumption is not necessarily correct.

True, I think, fork offset could actually be the same if rake and trail are different but that would also mean the relevant holes in the uppers would be at different angles to suit the rake and trail. Therefore the upper could quite easily slide onto the forks but because of the angle would not fit over the stem (?)

I´m no expert, just trying to figure this out.

Thanks all for the input :fing02:

I think the answer is clear - use a matched triple clamp set. I've not seen anyone try to use an RC51 lower with a CBR upper as you are trying to do. What is the purpose for this?

That is the de facto set-up. SP1 lower triple with the CBR929/954 upper.

Check all the SP1/2 swaps, they have gone this route.

I thought you´d know this, Jamie, as one of the suspension Pro´s around here?

One example

Well after further research the rake and trail of both bikes is different.

Honda RC51/SP1

Rake: (Caster Angle) 24.5 degrees

Trail: 100.5mm (3.96 inches)

Honda CBR954

Rake (Caster Angle): 23.45°

Trail: 97mm (3.8 inches)

Honda CBR 929

Rake: (Caster Angle) 23.8 degrees

Trail: 97mm (3.8 inches)

This must mean the offset is different and therefore the upper triples must be different. Hence my 2.5-3mm difference.

Bren

I suppose everything is possible, but....I did buy it as a 954 upper. Ebay so that of course means it could be anything

You might be onto something if the upper is flat or not. I´ll have to check that out. Thought maybe this was something that got left out of the previous build up reports.

I did paint the triple but masked off the fork clamping surface on the upper itself, so no paint can skew the angles etc. Good thinking though

Of the many swaps that have been done, at least one person would have commented on having to grind the triple by now. That would discount the entire mod, IMO, it's just not sound or a good idea at all. I've done some of these swaps and I know that the triple should slide right on.

BTW, which lower triple are you using?

Lower is SP1. The SP1 upper slides nicely on. Strange

Just out of curiosity, did you paint the triple, or did you get it that way?

I can't think of any other US bikes from that era that got that gullwing triple, the only ones I know of have the same offset. But, being in Europe, you might be dealing with something we don't know about? Doubtful, but there's a chance I guess?

I suppose everything is possible, but....I did buy it as a 954 upper. Ebay so that of course means it could be anything

You might be onto something if the upper is flat or not. I´ll have to check that out. Thought maybe this was something that got left out of the previous build up reports.

I did paint the triple but masked off the fork clamping surface on the upper itself, so no paint can skew the angles etc. Good thinking though

I would still like to know if it's flat or not. Hard to tell from your pics.

I´m not near the bike again till probably next week but I´ll definetely try what you suggested. As I said seems funny to me as no-one has ever mentioned it before.

I did paint the triple but masked off the fork clamping surface on the upper itself, so no paint can skew the angles etc. Good thinking though :fing02:

The SP1 upper slides on. I mean slides, no banging or swearing involved.

I´ve measured it Seb. There is a difference of 2.5mm between the two uppers, fork clamp to steering stem hole.

Thanks for the reply though.

Bren