frodus

well, I wanted to put a cobalt racing tail on there, but its been 5 months since I paid, I've called a few times... nothing. Not even an email.

Go join elmoto.net and introduce yourself... there's plenty of guys there that can help.

Look into K2 (peakbattery.com) here in the states... also A123... Other vendors like Headway, Valence etc might be willing to help. Valence sounded interested in sponsoring people. We are FOR SURE racing we sent in our entry fee last week. Its on! Lifebatt is completely sponsoring an entry? Wonder if its my friend Steve (Jozzbikes.co.uk).... He built up the TTX01.... i wonder who else they're providing cells to....

Thanks for the feedback... we worked hard on it. Its still in progress (switching batteries/working on charging). Check out evalbum, there's a few other VF's there. As far as bodywork, some places still have the front lower (was an option).... harder to find, keep an eye on ebay. What kind of range do you need? Whatever we can get really. Would be nice to get 30 miles. 20-30 miles is very reasonable. How fast do you want it?Again, however fast we can get. Would be nice to hit 45mph or 50mph. Absolutely reasonable Are you retaining your transmission, or going with just a sprocket and chain? Direct drive using sprocket & chain. For the same reasons you mentioned in your thread (efficiency & complexity). Great choice. AC or DC motor(AC controllers are complex)?We will take anything a sponsor will provide. However if it was up to me, then we'd be using a brushless DC motor. That way we could use the hall effect sensors to obtain maximum torque at (almost) any rpm. We'll probably end up using a PM brushed DC motor though (ETEK maybe). PM is a good start, and fairly easy to control. AC and sepex are more complex... and series wound have some issues with runaway due to back-emf. Do you NEED regen (max 15% back, maybe lower on a motorcycle, but is nice for engine downshift feel)? Controllers with regen are more complicated.Not worried about regen. Simply don't have the time or resources for the added complexity. Much more simple Whats the budget?Myself and 3 teammates are all contribuiting $250 for a total of $1k. Anything above that we will either have to start bootstrapping or find sponsors. There might be a Xbox360 up for sale real soon :dry:. Reasonably easy to do now that you've got a donor and are making the controller... the big cost is batteries and a motor. I've got some stuff I might be able to donate. Do you want to go with LiFePo4? or Lead (I might be able to sell you a whole set of my brand new lead batteries and ship from a business..... since I might be going lithium)It would be awesome to get some lighter batteries. However we are under an extremely tight budget due to our self funding. If one of the many sponsors I have emailed wanted to donate a handful I certainly wouldn't turn them down. However we will probably end up with cheap, heavy, lead-acid car batteries. Just let me know... I might go lifepo if we can get our TTXGP batteries for cheap enough.

How'd you know I'm never far from any of the EV threads on here the site is elmoto.net thats where all us electric guys hang out, read through the archives. Also, my website is www.evfr.net and it documents my entire build. I work for a controller company, so I might be able to help with some of your questions. We're working on releasing our DC controller, and working on our AC controller. Here are the big questions: What kind of range do you need? How fast do you want it? Are you retaining your transmission, or going with just a sprocket and chain? AC or DC motor(AC controllers are complex)? Do you NEED regen (max 15% back, maybe lower on a motorcycle, but is nice for engine downshift feel)? Controllers with regen are more complicated. Whats the budget? Do you want to go with LiFePo4? or Lead (I might be able to sell you a whole set of my brand new lead batteries and ship from a business..... since I might be going lithium) I've got 13 12V 28Ah batteries that'd be great to test with that I could let go for 40bucks a piece plus shipping.... but you'd save alot...

thats why... I was wondering why it dropped. Thanks for the help seb!

To the mods: Thanks for putting this in Featured Modifications... It was posted in yesterday, and still went to the bottom of the forum.

I'm getting everything legal and running while saving some extra cash for batteries. I could set something up... might not be a bad idea. every little bit helps. Anyone hear about Isle Of Mann TT races? Well someone set up a zero carbon IOM TT races called TTxGP... the founder emailed me and wants to talk.... so, there may be more investment opportunity if it goes that far.

it actually is called the eVFR.... www.evfr.net EV/ VFR goes together quite nicely.

Here's a video that my friend Jim and I shot earlier this week. We have all the fairings on it, and pretty much have the motor mount and battery pack design nailed. We'll be cleaning up the wiring, making some small changes to the mounts, and upgrading the rear sprocket to a 60tooth (ordered 7-18-08). Right now, I'm working on the custom charging system that will be installed as well as the 12V aux system for lighting. Real nice shot at the beginning and end of Jim hitting 50mph.

Motorcycle are excempt from DEQ testing in the Oregon. The only reason you would need to take a bike down to a DEQ testing center is to get the VIN inspected, but you can have that done at the DMV when you're getting plates for it. Oh yeah! I just realized that. I still want to get EV cert, as it'l change insurance... since its no longer a 700cc. The VIN is inspected already, nothing else is really needed.

I'm going to change the gearing, I don't need the top speed, I need it to run efficient at lower speeds. Plus a 2-speed is very expensive. Registering it is the next hurdle, but I've got it titled without an engine, and they said as long as its frame is based on a production vehicle, its no problem. They have to register it as an EV, and I might get discounts from insurance and the state for being emission free. Talked to my insurance person the other day.... shouldn't be too long! Thanks for reading the blog, leave a comment sometime.

So, I decided to work my butt off this last weekend, and prepare the electric motorcycle for its first official public apearance. the OEVA was sponsoring an EV Awareness day downtown Portland on Saturday. I put everything together, cleaned it up, and went down there. Had a blast. It was one of the more popular vehicles there, because it was the only motorcycle, and the only electric sportbike that I know of in this area! Read the blog article for details and some pictures! Just thought everyone would like to see the finished bike. Still have to get it registered and get the lights working, but thats pretty easy stuff. Thanks everyone for the support, its been a long time coming, but the payoff has been great.

Its not too bad without the engine braking. You can't downshift, but its doable. The v2.0 will be AC and have regen, so I'll get that back. This is just a test rig for now, with options to go AC and Lithium. As far as gearboxes, I can get to 60-70mph on one gear, 100% torque at 0rpm, and a fairly flat torque curve to 40mph, then it starts to fall off, as speed increases. In a car, you need the gearing for the electric motor. With a motorcycle, its not needed as much. I could do something like that for gearing, but thats just adding losses. Each mechanical "link" and electrical "link" adds inefficiency. Add that up, and you get less range. I won't be going much over 55 most of my driving, so I'll be fine. Torque drops off at higher RPM, but not very steeply. One gear reduction, no clutch, flat power curve (unlike an ICE which peaks at 4-6krpm). Comparing electric to ICE is apples and oranges. Consider that 1st gear reduction from the engine is 16.26:1 with the stock vfr700f (roughly) transmission/engine. My ratio is 4:1 right now. 4000rpm on my motor is 1000rpm on the wheel, and about 70mph (by calculations). 5000 is 89mph. In an ICE, at 5000rpm on the engine in 6th gear, you'd be going ~60mph. Stock VFR: Transmission: Six-speed, constant mesh, wet clutch Primary reduction: 2.031 Final reduction: 2.813 Gear Ratios: 1st: 2.846 2nd: 2.063 3rd: 1.632 4th: 1.333 5th: 1.154 6th: 1.036 6th gear final = 5.91:1 1st gear final = 16.26:1 Me: Final Reduction 4:1

So last night, I dropped by Synkromotive to help Ives with some testing. We tried logging with the DataQ again, and it it kept failing, no matter what setting we used. Nothing seemed to help. We unhooked it, and I’m going to contact Customer Service. We need something to compare our measured values to. We spent the rest of the evening getting the Old Tachometer (originally fed off the engine spark), to display the current on the motor side. Its pretty cool, as you give it gas, it displays current at a 50A per 1000rpm resolution. So 200A is 4krpm. I’ll likely print something to display actual A, but its great for testing. Its just a PWM signal to the original Tach line. I’m totally cool with keeping the stock look, infact, I’m HOPING to keep as much of a stock look as possible. Now I need to order a PB-6 to keep my original throttle (and kill switch), order a contactor and get the lights working. David got the bike up to 60mph… wow! It was fresh off the pack, and pulled 300A or so up to 30mph, and then it started to drop… it was roughly half of that at 55mph. Better gearing should help this, as less torque is needed. We’ll keep gearing what it is for now because we’re testing something new every day. I thought it felt kind of like a 250cc, but David said it actually feels more like a 500cc. I think the batteries are waking up a little too, so switching to new ones in the future, with higher current draw is definately going to help. This controller rocks! I got a jacket the other day, and am going to pick up a Helmet this weekend. Insurance won’t be that hard (My agent has been really cool about helping me). Registering it should be ok, but I’ll have to have someone make sure they see it doesn’t have an exhaust/was converted to electric so I can be excluded from DEQ. I’m also going to get a Motorcycle instruction permit… and keep my riding limited to daytime, with a friend. Just need to take the Knowledge test. Now I want another VFR... my friend might let me take his for a spin (another VFR700F).. once I get more experience.

Well, its been a fun week. We got it running Tuesday and spent all week trying her out, charging it and running around. Friday I went to the Ducati Dealership near the shop and showed it off, let them take it for a ride, they enjoyed it. There were a couple girls there and they were speachless..... its going to be a geekgirl magnet. Anyway, I posted some video on youtube. http://www.youtube.com/frodus17 The accel sucks right now because the gearing is low (4:1) and the batteries are used and pretty tired. She scoots pretty well with a full charge. We're deciding on the next batteries we want to buy (since we have to get a complete new pack to replace the free used bats we got for testing). We'll order a new sprocket from sprocket specialists once we know what kind of power the new pack can put out. Its ongoing, so don't assume this is all she's got... This video was taken Wednesday. Thursday the batteries were charged, and there was a NOTICEABLE improvement. Then we charged them all the way Thursday night, and there was noticeable improvement again... then we tweaked some settings and there was more improvement. With a higher gear ratio like 5 or 6:1 we'll get more acceleration, less top speed. I'm find topping out around 70, as most of my driving is 50mph or below.

the 144V pack and the current pack are the same. I just broke it in half, and put the 2 72V packs in parallel. weight is 160lbs.

So, she's actually running now. Click the pic below for the blog entry and some pictures. I posted a video, but its dark. I'll get more tonight and throw it up on youtube. I'll do a walkaround as well. Looks like frankenbike, but it'l be cleaned up. We just wanted to get it together so we can begin testing. Accel is slow, because I chose a 13 tooth front, stock rear... to start. I'll be changing to 11tooth tonight to see how it helps. We might go larger sprocket to help even more. It JUST got running, and there's lots of work to be done (and it looks like frankenstein without the fairings).

We tried to keep the COG as far forward of the motor... to kind of encase it inside. It is air cooled, so it needs room to breath... The motors are fine with water, just not submerged. As long as you keep it clean (spray off once in a while and clean off) they should last a while. I'll be avoiding rain when I can, and it won't be driven in the snow. Its a summer bike.

So do I. We are so screwed.... :unsure: :laugh: good thing the motor/batteries/controller/contactor/motorcycle all ended up being free Only thing I paid for on that bike.... was the PDA for the gauges, cable/crimp connectors for the batteries, headlights and some mounting bolts If something happened, my losses are low ... haha.

you're such a nitpicker. Haha, we both are. You question my math, I question your welds I missed a 0, but did the calcs right and as far as the 300-400.... thats normal for the cars I've seen on evalbum... for rough estimates on Wh needed, you should use a Wh that is higher than what you would cruise at 35mph. That way, no matter what the driving (55, or 25) your range at 55 is what you wanted it to be, and even further at 25mph.... Its just a good gauge/estimate on range. You won't be driving a car/motorcycle all the time at 25-25mph. 300-400 is a good estimate for DC motor cars... Ac is different as you know. I was taking worst case scenerio. The bike we're building up is likely going to be 100-125Wh/mile with a 2600Wh pack (80% DOD is 2080Wh) and thats with new batteries. These are lightly used and should get me 15-20 miles. We'll see this week

Oh, ok, following you now. I thought you were referring to this project... I totally agree with you, seems like the rest of the one's I've seen are mostly hack together projects. I put some thought into this to make it look like a bike that someone would want to drive. The cost of making a molded battery wouldn't be that bad, the problem is, its not modular, its for ONE design of bike and would likely not fit in another bike. Lots of development cost for each bike they design. Best idea is to use small (like C or D size) lithium batteries that can be installed in small sub packs. As far as the generator on the wheel idea... adding any weight to the wheel for magnets would increase the energy needed to accelerate to speed. Adding coils would add weight, and when you put the load (batteries) on the coils from the generator, its going to load the wheel. Imagine this: You have a hand crank generator hooked to nothing... you turn it, it turns freely, because there's no load. Put one light bulb on it, and it may be a little harder to spin. Put enough light bulbs on the generator and you can actually lock the rotor. The gains of adding a generator are negated by physics... it would be better to add another battery or two for more range. Just because lead is heavy, doesn't mean it doesn't get you that much further.....

Well, just as it is with Gas cars, depends on how far you go... and how much energy you consume. Lets say your car can get you 50 miles on a charge, safely. Lots of cars cruise between 300-400Wh/mile. Say thats 20000Wh, or 20kWh. Use your local utility company bill for dollars/kWh and see what that works out to be. Thats a good guestimate on cost. If its 10 cents a kWh, then 10*20 is 2 bucks. This doesn't account for charger inefficiencies, but assume that you'll get 70% of the wall power into the batteries.... so you might use 26kwh to charge it back up, and it would cost roughly $2.60. Motorcycles and cars average below 4 cents a mile... if that helps [edited for anal retentive Loni... hehe]

Did you look at our racks? I think we did a great job fitting in square batteries into a bike... plus the fairings cover it up. I used smaller ones that fit better inside the chassis.... Its not like companies are going to create cells that are "molded" to a form factor. What batteries were you thinking that could be "molded" or "disguised"? I'm all ears. I chose a small form factor for that reason. You should see the other guys trying to fit car batteries in theirs. Don't get started on lithium either, I'm not going to spend $5-10k for a battery pack.... I chose these for cost/form factor and ability to get high voltages and higher speed/efficiency. The batteries are Gel, and they can be oriented as shown in the pictures. SLA's and Gels can be oriented any way you want. Its the flooded batteries you have to orient horizontal. People don't use those in motorcycles because of the danger of spilling. As far as "room" for regen.... do you know what regen is? It uses the push on the motor when you slow down.... the motor acts like a generator and charges the batteries. I can't do regen with this motor without modification, but we're working on an AC system, and that will have regen capability, in the same form factor as the motor/controller on this bike. You don't put anything else on the wheels to do regen, it has to do with the motor.

Another little update: