toro1

For anyone wondering about the price, remember this -- the supercharger itself is close to $2000, and there are over 25 different parts being CNC'd, with the total number of machined parts numbering at least twice that. Throw in the hardware, anodizing, filters, o-rings, etc. etc, and then a tiny bit for me, and you can start to see where the expense is coming from. I could make this kit cheaper by outsourcing parts to China, but I personally don't believe in doing that and very much like to support the local shops. I can guarantee that you will never once have to worry about the quality of this kit, and I have invested far too many engineering hours for it to be anything but perfect. Just remember that you get what you pay for, and in this case, that means a 50% power boost.

Price point: Unsure of that right now (if I have to ballpark it, plan on price landing somewhere between $4-6k, with a possible discount for the initial run of kits) Timeframe: I hope to have my bike up and running & the first 'experimental' kit out within the next 1-2 months -- production 5th-gen kits will follow shortly after that, and once I can get my hands on a 6th-gen, that kit will follow as well. Just keep you eyes peeled here for more info regarding progress/pricing. This is going to be the ultimate bolt-on you can purchase for your VFR.

Rob, the Blackbird injectors would be perfect for this application. The problem is that I can't get them at a realistic price unless I buy vast quantities of them directly from Keihin (basically acting as an OEM). I've figured out a great solution for the Stage 1 kit, and have a good idea of how to fuel the Stage 2 kit as well. Now, if anyone has a connection/stockpile of Blackbird/S2000 injectors, we need to talk... Well, considering a single Rotrex can support up to 600hp, how fast would you like to go?

From working on my supercharger project and designing Harley open primary belt drives, I know how difficult this process is. My question is this -- how did you figure out the ideal center distance for the 30T/76T combo? Tensioning is so key with these drives, and after talking to Gates engineers several times, I know that they almost never recommend fixed center distances. The pitch length of the 172T belt is 74.488" and the pitch length of your 30T/76T combo with a center distance of 25.630" (651mm) is 74.605", thus you must be preloading the belt a certain amount. Gates has special formulas for computing the tension -- did you use these in determining the center distance? The part that bugs me about the belt drive is the varying tension in the belt as the suspension moves up and down. I'm guessing most manufacturers that do this set the tension to be ideal when an 1xx-lb. rider is on the bike, and any time the suspension moves, it varies slightly from this ideal figure. I also believe that Buell uses a spring loaded belt tensioner on their bikes, located on the slack side of the belt (which can be seen here, and the patent is here). I know Gates does not recommend using outside idlers on ribbed surface Poly Chain belts, so I'm not sure how Harley gets away with this one. They also do not recommend using spring loaded tensioners. Anyway, here is the actual PolyChain manual. Pertinent engineering data begins on page 40. If you have not yet contacted Gates, I suggest you do. It's a pain to get a hold of their engineers, but once you do, they know their stuff (I can personally recommend Jack Timmerman). Best of luck, as you don't need to give up hope yet. :thumbsup:

Seb & Kev, your guesses might be closer than you realize... The 6th-gen will have its very own kit developed for it. In no way, shape, or form will I try to just slap on a 5th-gen kit and market it for VTEC bikes. The success of this kit is attributed to thousandths of an inch (and in some cases, tenths) accuracy and I fully plan on obtaining a bike to design a kit around. Many parts are the same, but far too many are different: obviously the fairing is changed, but did you know the throttle body is different? How about the valve covers? The frame is slightly tweaked and the big coils are gone. All this means that some of the parts I have already designed will need to be redesigned, though the majority of parts will interchange. A Power Commander is an absolute necessity. If you do not already own one, you will have to buy one to use this kit. Also, I'm really not too concerned about VTEC. Remember this, for the majority of the time spent riding your bike (and especially while cruising), the engine sees only vacuum, thus the standard tune is only slightly modified to work with the supercharger. In the same way that tuning can smooth out the VTEC transition, so can tuning help nullify the VTEC effect with the blower. With the purchase of a kit, a customer will receive a fuel map 90% optimized for their bike. Much like the predetermined fuel maps that come with a Power Commander, the fuel map I provide will be solid enough that further tuning is really more of an option. These fuel maps are tuned with real-world miles, not just strapped down to a dyno in a closed room. To do this, an actual 6th-gen bike will be used to fine-tune the fuel mapping and make sure that a bike with one of my kits will perform out of the box. All this will come after I introduce the 5th-gen kit, however, but it should not be long after that.

Okay. Alright. I can tell some folks are getting anxious. I'm still very much involved in this project and quite honestly, the majority of the big design hurdles have been cleared. Machining of the updated parts should start quite soon, and once that's done, all there will be left to do is test the thing. Speaking of parts, something showed up here the other day. Not quite sure what it is, but maybe it can be used in the kit somehow... mystery_object1.jpg mystery_object2.jpg These things have a bunch of fins with holes in the center...who knows what they're used for. I also found these files on my hard drive, not sure if they can be of any use, but they sure are interesting looking. preview?.gif Just a few more months guys...

Oh it's coming. Basically, I've ironed out the parts of the kit that needed redesign, and I'm working on some cool features that will put this thing over the top, so just wait my friends - just wait. I can assure you that you will like what you see. I'm probably going to need another month to get all the details finalized -- after that, well, hopefully this will all turn to reality.

The instructions provided with the kit will be super clear on what to do during the install. Like I said before, you will need certain tools and you will have to be able drain the fluids from the bike (including the gas) to do this job, and there is fairing clearancing required. If by glancing at the instructions you feel hesitant about any steps and you do not have someone to help you, I would suggest taking it to a shop to get it done properly. But really, it is quite easy to install the whole system by yourself. Also, the modifications I spoke of serve to enhance the durability of the supercharger, to promote even greater rideability and fuel consumption, and improve manufacturability. I have been riding this bike since August, and there have been zero hiccups with the engine or supercharger, just insane amounts of power (as in, punch it from a cruise in 3rd gear and directly control how much sky you see, for as long as you like, by the twisting of your right hand). I want this to be the highest quality kit possible, without any bugs, hassles, or problems for the user. The refinements I am making now will hopefully meet this goal, along with making the entire kit easier to produce (and easier to upgrade :salesman:).

Honestly, if you are able to change your own oil & spark plugs, or clean your air filter, you can do this install. You will need certain tools (like a torque wrench, metric allen wrenches, sockets of all sorts -- I will have a tool list), and a Honda shop manual is highly recommended, but this kit is truly nothing more than unbolting things and bolting new things back up. The only "fabrication" involved is the minor trimming of the fairing panel, and anybody with a steady hand and a file can do that job. The blower is by far the most expensive component. While it is indeed true that I get a price break from Rotrex depending on the number of units sold, it's not that big of a discount. I was planning on doing something similar to what you have described, though.

I've been thinking about the best way to go about pricing this kit (at least initially) for a little while now. John is absolutely right in that the more kits I move, the cheaper I can sell them for -- machining costs and the superchargers themselves drop greatly in price as the number of kits sold goes up. I think I might end up trying a modified group buy; that is, for 2 weeks or so, there would be a sign-up sheet, and depending on how many people have committed to it, a price break would follow. So if three people sign up, it would be full price. Ten people might drop it to 5% off, 50 people might make it 15% off, etc. etc. This is just an idea at this point -- I'll worry about the specifics later as I have slightly more pressing matters to worry about right now.

Boy, this just keeps going, huh? I've read the kneeslider myself on numerous occasions. Just thought I'd clarify some things. First, Bailey and I decided to trim the thread down to it's present size as it had grown to mammoth, gargantuan proportions (30 pages, 889 replies) and was taking up just a bit of space on the ole server. I have the entire thread backed up, so if any info is ever needed from it, I'm sure there's some way to make it accessible again. As Dan has said, I am still very much involved in this process and would like nothing more than to make this supercharger kit a successful, realistic option for all '98-up VFR owners. Not a day goes by that I am not toiling away in the lab to make this kit better, faster, stronger. I have a few suprises in store as well, so anyone interested in adapting this to your bike and picking up 50 ponies along the way, be patient. When I have updates, you will absolutely know about them. Also, as far as potential buyers are concerned, I'm very hesitiant to throw a price out there until I know for sure the final configuration of the kit, but take a look around the web at other supercharger/turbo kits for bikes and cars. Chances are that this one will end up priced somewhere in that ballpark, so if that's something you can financially manage, stay tuned. Think about it this way: a supercharger system for a bike you know and love is going to be a whole lot cheaper than buying a new bike, and the bike you know and love will just end up giving you even more to love. And who doesn't want some more love? :goofy: --Dan PS - You guys rock. You were a driving force behind getting this completed the first time, and you're the driving force behind getting this completed the second time (and hopefully, many times after that...) :thumbsup: