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2015 VFR800DLX occasionally starting…


SgtMarbles

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Hey guys, I recently picked up a ‘15 VFR800DLX, i’ve been having some issues with it lately. The bike is refuses to start when warm, It will sometimes start when warm but not frequently. Im just trying to deduct what the problem could be? I put a brand new battery in the bike and everything is reading properly. When the bike doesn’t start, the neutral light dim’s when I click the starter but nothing happens.

 

Cheers!

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Make sure Battery Terminals are clean and tight.

- When the fault is there. Does raising the Sidestand and pulling in the Clutch and press the Starter make any difference?

 

Need to be clear On this..... Your saying when the fault is there you Press the Starter Button and the engine doesn't Crank?

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3 hours ago, Grum said:

Make sure Battery Terminals are clean and tight.

- When the fault is there. Does raising the Sidestand and pulling in the Clutch and press the Starter make any difference?

 

Need to be clear On this..... Your saying when the fault is there you Press the Starter Button and the engine doesn't Crank?

The Battery terminals are clean and tight, when the fault is there and the bike is completely cold sometimes it will start with the kickstand down, most of the time it I have to put the kickstand up before I press the starter. 

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12 hours ago, SgtMarbles said:

The Battery terminals are clean and tight, when the fault is there and the bike is completely cold sometimes it will start with the kickstand down, most of the time it I have to put the kickstand up before I press the starter. 

 

Mate. Is there something wrong with my English? I seem to have this problem a lot! In trying to help you, I asked a couple of simple questions, important in diagnosing your issue and I don't get an answer! Thanks regarding your Battery Terminals, good to know they are fine!

 

Again....Is your fault specfic to No Cranking OR Does it always Crank over but doesn't Start??? There's a Big difference between the two situations.

Again.... If its a No Cranking Issue - Does attempting to Crank the bike in the Fault condition Change when Starting with the Clutch Pulled in and Sidestand UP? 

 

If your're saying there are NO Cranking issues AND only raising the Sidestand definetly cures the Fault and the engine starts, then this could relate to the ECM NOT seeing the Neutral Ground ( ECM Safety Interlock logic). Another important confirmation needed.

 

You stated your problem was to do with "warm" starting, and now your saying the fault is there when "completely cold"?

 

PLEASE be specific about these questions, without proper answers, we are on yet another wild goose chase!. Specific answers will put us on the path to fault finding............Hopefully!

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3 hours ago, Grum said:

 

Mate. Is there something wrong with my English? I seem to have this problem a lot! In trying to help you, I asked a couple of simple questions, important in diagnosing your issue and I don't get an answer! Thanks regarding your Battery Terminals, good to know they are fine!

 

Again....Is your fault specfic to No Cranking OR Does it always Crank over but doesn't Start??? There's a Big difference between the two situations.

Again.... If its a No Cranking Issue - Does attempting to Crank the bike in the Fault condition Change when Starting with the Clutch Pulled in and Sidestand UP? 

 

If your're saying there are NO Cranking issues AND only raising the Sidestand definetly cures the Fault and the engine starts, then this could relate to the ECM NOT seeing the Neutral Ground ( ECM Safety Interlock logic). Another important confirmation needed.

 

You stated your problem was to do with "warm" starting, and now your saying the fault is there when "completely cold"?

 

PLEASE be specific about these questions, without proper answers, we are on yet another wild goose chase!. Specific answers will put us on the path to fault finding............Hopefully!

My apologies! The fault is rather inconsistent, it happens occasionally when cold and almost always when hot. Putting the side stand up does cure the fault 90% of the time. When the fault is there, the bike does not crank over at all when the side stand is down and the bike is in neutral, even with the clutch in. The starting button just clicks and nothing happens, the neutral light “flickers” but that’s all that happens. It’s a very weird issue im having because it’s not consistent at all.  
 

Sorry for the confusion! 

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31 minutes ago, SgtMarbles said:

When the fault is there, the bike does not crank over at all when the side stand is down and the bike is in neutral, even with the clutch in. The starting button just clicks and nothing happens, the neutral light “flickers” but that’s all that happens.

Now we're almost getting there BUT......

You see, I've mentioned the combination of Clutch In and Sidestand Up.!!

Does this always operate the Starter when pressing the Start button? Very Important to know this.

This is the alternate path for the Starter Relay to energize Rather than the Neutral gear path.

 

So establishing which path is faulty will zoom in on the faulty area.

 

Info - On an 8gen Neutral Indication and Starter Relay coil grounding is done very differently to previous VFR'S.

 

Starting_sys.JPG

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2 minutes ago, Grum said:

Now we're almost getting there BUT.

You see, I've mentioned the combination of Clutch In and Sidestand Up.!! Does this always operate the Starter when pressing the Start button. Very Important to know this.

This is the alternate path for the Starter Relay to energize Rather than the Neutral gear path.

 

So establishing which path is faulty will zoom in on the faulty area.

 

Info - On an 8gen Neutral Indication and Starter Relay coil grounding is done very differently to previous VFR'S.

 

Starting_sys.JPG

Not always, very rarely im able to start the bike without putting the kickstand up and pulling the clutch in.

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29 minutes ago, SgtMarbles said:

Not always, very rarely im able to start the bike without putting the kickstand up and pulling the clutch in.

Ok...at last, we getting there I think!

So I think what you're saying is that there are problems with Both a Neutral Start AND a Sidestand UP Clutch pulled In Start. Is that Yes or No.?

 

And you can hear the Starter Relay (not the starter button/switch) click when pressing the Starter Button every time? Yes, No or Sometimes?

 

Do you have a basic understanding of electrics, have and know how to use a voltmeter? Let's get testing!

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34 minutes ago, Grum said:

Ok...at last, we getting there I think!

So I think what you're saying is that there are problems with Both a Neutral Start AND a Sidestand UP Clutch pulled In Start. Is that Yes or No.?

 

And you can hear the Starter Relay (not the starter button/switch) click when pressing the Starter Button every time? Yes, No or Sometimes?

 

Do you have a basic understanding of electrics, have and know how to use a voltmeter? Let's get testing!

Yes, exactly! Im at the shop today.

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On 4/8/2024 at 11:05 PM, SgtMarbles said:

Yes, exactly! Im at the shop today.

 

Ok so if you're hearing the Starter Relay Click EVERY time, then you most likely have an issue with the Relay internals, or a faulty main cable to the starter motor, or starter motor fault. See attached photo and remove the Starter Relay cover.

 

When the fault is active. Grab your voltmeter, Ignition to Off. With your black meter lead to battery Neg terminal, now probe the two Main Terminals (4 see pic) on the Starter Relay with the other meter lead. One terminal should measure 12v.

 

Now turn Ignition to On, bike in Neutral. Now probe the other Starter Relay Main Terminal, press the Starter Button. Do you hear the Relay click AND Measure 12v.? Is the Starter Motor spinning?

If you hear the Relay Click but Don't measure 12v. = Probable Starter Relay faulty/Intermittent.

 

Another brutal Test is to simply use a couple of screwdrivers shorting the two main relay terminals. Do this with Ignition Off and Make sure you're in Neutral. The Starter Motor should spin over every time you make the short, if it does then you don't have a starter motor or main cable issue.

 

You can download the Service Manual from this site if you don't already have it. It will show how to fully test the Starter Relay.

 

By the way. What was the brand, type and part number of the new Battery you fitted? And it's Fully Charged?

 

Bedtime for me. Let's know you get on.

Nighty night!

 

20240408_230302.jpg

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Apologies if this thread has become a tad messy. It took time to get a grip on the actual fault symptoms. Here's some bottom line stuff.

 

On occasions, bike doesn't Crank, Neutral Light dims, Starter Relay Click is heard with Every press of the Starter Switch.

If this is the case in Both a Neutral start AND/OR Clutch In, Sidestand UP start, then........

 

- Low battery voltage. New battery has been fitted But battery voltage needs to be measured when Starter Switch pressed.

- Fault is between Battery to Starter Motor.

- Voltages and operation checks of Starter Relay needed, faulty/intermittent Starter Relay, or possible low coil voltage.

- Voltage and continuity checks of Starter Motor power and ground cables.

- Possible faulty Starter Motor.

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On 4/10/2024 at 1:48 AM, Grum said:

Apologies if this thread has become a tad messy. It took time to get a grip on the actual fault symptoms. Here's some bottom line stuff.

 

On occasions, bike doesn't Crank, Neutral Light dims, Starter Relay Click is heard with Every press of the Starter Switch.

If this is the case in Both a Neutral start AND/OR Clutch In, Sidestand UP start, then........

 

- Low battery voltage. New battery has been fitted But battery voltage needs to be measured when Starter Switch pressed.

- Fault is between Battery to Starter Motor.

- Voltages and operation checks of Starter Relay needed, faulty/intermittent Starter Relay, or possible low coil voltage.

- Voltage and continuity checks of Starter Motor power and ground cables.

- Possible faulty Starter Motor.

I apologize for my rather confusing symptoms I described. I checked the battery voltage, checked to make sure the charging system was working as it should, I unplugged the starter relay than plugged it back in, I bypassed the clutch switch to see if it made any difference and it did not. The very last thing I did was I took apart the starter switch/button and found corrosion all over the contacts. I cleaned all the corrosion off and i’ve had no issues since. I believe that was the problem! The bike had been sitting in a gentleman's garage for the last two years before I bought it and started using it as my daily commuter. I appreciate all the help! 
 

Cheers!

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Good job glad you have it sorted. Will remember that one.

Corrosion on Starter Switch contacts = low voltage to Starter Relay coil.

 

A good coating of Ox-Gard on the contacts will help keep the corrosion away.

 

Just for info - "I bypassed the clutch switch to see if it made any difference and it did not"

The clutch switch was never going to be part of the problem because you had starting issues in Both of the starting modes, a Neutral Start and the In Gear Start(SS Up and Clutch in).

 

Enjoy the 8gen, it generally is super reliable in the electrical department.

Cheers:fing02:

 

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On 4/14/2024 at 6:14 PM, Grum said:

Good job glad you have it sorted. Will remember that one.

Corrosion on Starter Switch contacts = low voltage to Starter Relay coil.

 

A good coating of Ox-Gard on the contacts will help keep the corrosion away.

 

Just for info - "I bypassed the clutch switch to see if it made any difference and it did not"

The clutch switch was never going to be part of the problem because you had starting issues in Both of the starting modes, a Neutral Start and the In Gear Start(SS Up and Clutch in).

 

Enjoy the 8gen, it generally is super reliable in the electrical department.

Cheers:fing02:

 

Sadly im revisiting this thread. The problem wasn’t sorted, i’ve diagnosed it as an intermittent starting issue and i’ve ordered a new starter solenoid since that is what I believe to be the culprit. This bike had been sitting for three years, being ridden occasionally according to the owner. The only thing that is consistent is when the bike is warm it refuses to start entirely, that includes in warm temperatures. I’ll keep you folks updated as I go, but so far I can’t seem to figure it out. I work at a motorcycle shop so I had the techs have a look at the bike and they are as baffled as I am! It’s a one off issue that no VFR owner has ever experienced before.

 

 Cheers lads! 

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1 hour ago, SgtMarbles said:

The only thing that is consistent is when the bike is warm it refuses to start entirely, that includes in warm temperatures.

Again I guess you're meaning, it won't crank?

With all that's been done, agree the Starter Relay needs to be isolated, and sounding like the culprit. It may have an intermittent heat related issue.

Don't forget to disconnect one of the battery leads preferably the Negative before working on the Starter Relay.

 

Good Luck. Keep us posted.

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19 hours ago, Grum said:

Again I guess you're meaning, it won't crank?

With all that's been done, agree the Starter Relay needs to be isolated, and sounding like the culprit. It may have an intermittent heat related issue.

Don't forget to disconnect one of the battery leads preferably the Negative before working on the Starter Relay.

 

Good Luck. Keep us posted.

Yup! When you push the starter button you can hear the relay clicking but the bike does not crank over. We’ve had some 25-30 degree celsius weather these past few days and the bike hasn’t started once via the push to start. The relay will be here at the end of the week and i’ll install it. Thanks for your help lads! 
 

 

Cheers! 

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