Auspanglish

Up!!

no difference in the shocks...

if you look at the 1st post pictures, you will see the black adjuster. it is difficult to get to. like you said, if you set it and forget it, fine...otherwise, you might want to consider something else. i have tried to set it with spanner, but haven't spent a lot of time on it and didn't have success. once i get the bike out of my garage (no room to manuever) i'll see if i can do it.

Hi guys... does the access to the preload adjuster continue to be an issue?? have you found an easy solution to adjusting on the fly?? I change regularly from hardbags to no hardbags and would prefer to be able to adjust preload with realtive ease...

How did the stiffer 1200 lb spring go??

Any updates??

Bueller??

You're bike is so clean I've come to the conclusion that you don't use it...

May the force be with you!!

Any sign of a 1200 service manual file in pdf format to download and drool over??

Congratulations Kal... I could never take on a project of that size and nature... I am impressed!! Keenly awaiting updates (beats Days of Our Lives any day hahaha)

I just mentioned this because since I fixed this POS connector, all my surging issues have dissapeared... and it just so happens that lots of ground wires from lots of sensors involved in the FI system run through this POS connector... it may be worth trying before you become prematurely bald whilst attempting a complete wiring harness transplant...

Eh? The ground wires for nearly every sensor on the bike don't run through that block, they run through the block in the main harness, between the left-hand side of the engine and the frame. I'll take some pics if you like.

The block you're talking about is the sub harness ground block. Not saying it couldn't affect the ECU though - it's just not where the ECU and its sensors are grounded.

OK... we just assumed that was the case... but if the truth be told, you've certainly studied that harness to the nth degree... nonetheless, I have noticed a massive difference in that the surging (which was scarey at VTEC rpms (as if it jumped in and out of VTEC mode), virtually dissapeared, even when the bike is really hot, which is when it usually gets really pronounced.

And have you considered my suggestion of getting your hand on a RHS handlebar switch module?? Just to avoid cutting and splicing into the harness so much...

BTW did you do THIS yet?

No actually I haven't done that; never had any issues with the front end wiring so never bothered. That connector block BTW is much easier to get to on the 2006+ wiring harness as it's right by the blue and white connector blocks. So if I ever NEED to work on it in future it should be a tad easier.

I just mentioned this because since I fixed this POS connector, all my surging issues have dissapeared... and it just so happens that lots of ground wires from lots of sensors involved in the FI system run through this POS connector... it may be worth trying before you become prematurely bald whilst attempting a complete wiring harness transplant...

BTW did you do THIS yet?

You're a brave man Kal... shall I sacrifice several species of small fury animals to the gods of ECU??

Dude. Spain doesn't have the headlight switch either. Lights on at all times by law. Only the 5th gens have that switch. And our left hand switch assembly DOES have flash-to-pass trigger switch!!

Why don't you just buy a RHS switch assembly with the on-off-hazards switch built in like I did, from a country that has that stuff included (I'm in process of installing hazards on my '03 and figured it would be handy to be able to turn headlights off at will sometimes) and also get yourself a LHS one without the flash to pass trigger? Well, it is handy to have so I guess you'll be patching in the wiring to keep this feature on board, but you could just purchase a second hand (or new) RHS switch assembly and enjoy the hazard feature.

No in-line fuse needed, right? Guess it would be defeating the purpose of the R/R obtaining an accurate reading and (being ignorant), I'm not sure it would be necessary, but that's why I'm asking, 'cause I don't know!! No such thing as a stupid question right?

Kal... Nice vid!!

Completely unrelated but... what does the little toggle switch on the LHS black inner fairing you've installed do???

HS... I imagine it got lost in some server bungle, system crash or something but I was ondering if you have a working link for the video you post in the how-to re "check valve inspection".

Love it... it's wicked... now you just need to custom paint the fairing... after all, it is no longer a stock Y2K VFR.

Thanks for that info.

It's weird to me, the new 2004 VFR rides as actively as my modified 1993. I didn't get maintenance records from the prior owner. He was the second owner, and only had it for 1,000 miles and one year. He didn't know anything about the first owner modifying the suspension, but I find it hard to believe that it rides as well as it does on a stock Showa. I guess I need to dig in there and see if I can find any evidence of mods.

I have friends with 3rd and 4th gens that would run rings around some of the best riders on this forum... they are quite light and nimble bikes

I can only find the following data related to shocks that I have collated from all the threads.... I think I have some 3rd gen info somewhere but can't find it.

Spring rates

VFR1200F = 18.5kg/mm

VFR800 (5th & 6th gens) = 15.3kg/mm

CBR929 = 15.3kg/mm +/- same stroke length 57mm Vs 58mm (related to VTEC)

CBR954 = 14.6kg/mm

CBR XX = 16kg/mm

Bolt for extender (fitting 929 shock to 6th gen): 10x110-115mm (grind head for 5th gen)

Spacer for extender: 28-30mm

Eye-to-eye lengths

4th gen = 324mm (325mm)

5th gen = 325mm

6th gen = 316mm (317.5mm)

CBR929 = 286mm (288mm, 287mm)

CBR954 = 282mm

929 spring 4mm longer than 6th gen spring??

929 adjuster wrench part #: 89202-KY1-700

Does anyone know what size thread the flywheel needs for a flywheel puller? There's a bucket of tools on eBay etc but none of them mention the 2002+ models and the thread size needed. Honda Australia is quoting me $122 for the tool which supposedly costs $16 in the USA.

The best info I can find is that the thread might be M20 x 1.5 RH thread. A tool is available from Motion Pro in that size..

NFI

These are both 929 shocks, the white spring ones came on the Erion versions of the 929 and yellow springs on the standard 929.

Bailey (or anyone else for that matter)... do you know if there is any difference other than colour between the Erion and Regular version of the 929er??

From what I've read the 929er has the same spring rate as the VTECker.

New longer top bracket to be what?? 30 - 42 mm longer?? I wouldn't mind some 10mm more seat height.

Bailey... did you ever actually install a 929 shock on your VTECker??

I just forked out the cash on one and have just seen these recent posts on clearance issues that I hadn't seen on older posts...

I was hoping just having a longer top mounting bracket machined would be all I had to worry about...

BTW, this thread is worth thumbtacking/pinning... don't ya think?? BR... HS... Bueller???

I have the answer to VFRQQQs question (and mine)... as to how much preload the spring gets out of the factory...

The official Honda answer is "NONE"... this means that the 4 turns required to retract the pusher piston all the way in ONCE is how the CCT comes OEM, either on the bike or out of the box...

Once placed in the motor and the key removes it extends all it can up against the guide...

So you guessed rather well there... giving it one full turn more is not going too far... I gave it 2 full turns more... I don't think that's overdoing it either... it's a very flimsy spring, so I doubt 50% more will cause premature wear anywhere...

It was Honda Montesa the Official Honda Distributor in Spain who answered my quiery.

This time thanks are in order... but they should get their act together with the recalls...

Your exactly right, im not argueing that thats whats happening, and you dd a really nice job of explaining and documenting it as well.

To simplify it, you have a reduced dumping of thermal energy at low forward speeds due to the fan 'fighting' the air moving across the bike. So the coolant has to be at a higher temp to dump heat. It does dump some heat or the engine would go into runaway overheat, just not enough.

When the coolant gets that extra bit hot though is when you start getting hot spots in the head.

So it does still cool the motor under that condition but not enough. My answer is simply to add a bit of increased efficiency to the whole cooling system ( maybe 10%?) and then it has sufficient capacity to deal with the condition of reduced air flow. I can ride slow speeds up steep hills for long periods of tme now in the dead of summer. I live on a mountain served by a 2 lane road that ALSO leads to a damn tourist destination, so i encounter this a lot.

Answers like more air fliw over the radiator increases its efficiency, a higher pressure cap raises the boiling point and the higher delta temp relative to ambiant also increases its efficiency in dumping btu's. I just thought about tbe problem in a lazy way as i wanted to be riding and not reinventing my fan ( i did think about it, it was my next option if the chemicals weren enough of an increase) as in " whats the easiest way to get a bit more efficiency in the cooling system"

Its just a much cheaper easier mod. The runaway head temp thing i used to get at idle too. It ould get to about 195f, then spike to 225 and not come down untill i rode 5 min over 30 mph or shut the bike down for 2 minutes. Both were annoying.

When i finally get my torocharger, ill probably do the fan mod too...

Now no longer need to worry about my cooling system, it just works like it should have from the factory.

I'm sure you have no commercial interest in promoting these products so I'm sure it must be true... maybe I should seriously consider trying them out..

did a quick search on the net for JB Cool and no go... (I'm in Spain so there won't be a local JB guy)

The stock blades are much more efficient when stopped or at such slow speeds that the naturally incoming air from the foreward movement of the bike doesn't overwhelm the force of the fan. Considerably more efficient. Apparently this has something to do with it being more effective to pull a load than to push it, against some resistence like friction (in this case the radiator fins).

I think what you're seeing is due to the temperature of the air being forced over the radiator not whether that air is pushed or pulled. In stock configuration the fan pulls cool (relatively speaking) air from outside over the radiator and exhausts it into the engine compartment. The VTR reverses the direction of airflow, forcing superheated air from inside the engine compartment through the radiator. The delta T between engine compartment air and the radiator is much narrower than that between outside air and the radiator. Therefore, the VTR arrangement results in less heat transfered from the water to the air and less efficient cooling than the stock set up. I suspect that's exactly the reason the engineers designed it as they did.

Once you're rolling all this changes. Now you have a supply of cooler air being introduced from the front and the fan is an active impediment to that air getting through the left radiator and while at the same time the fan is unable to draw air from the outside. The right radiator is unaffected, so the engine's still able to shed heat, but not enough because you've lost 40 to 50% of your cooling capacity. Some time back, some folks had success with a manual override to turn on the fan and also turn it OFF in exactly the situation we're talking about.

Exactly... forgot to mention that point... of course it ahs a big influence on the lower effectiveness of the VTR blades when the bike is stationary... it's forcing much hotter air through the rad...

And yes... the option to turn the fan off manually when forward motion coincides with the fan coming on is an excellent idea, except for those who tend to leave tings like irons or ovens on...

Wouldn't be a bad idea to be able to manually force the fan ON for certain situations as well!!

and if I could just find a 8x8 cm fan that produced a decent airflow for the RHS rad... there ain't room for much more...

I have not read the entire post yet.

Which way does your car fan run? Does it pull cooler air toward the engine or does it blow hot air from the engine to the cooler ambient air outside of the car?

Bikes are not diesel trucks ,the small capacity of a bikes cooling system are not made to cope with the traffic conditions that we find ourselves in.

Actually it matters not if the fan moves the air over the engine or not. What matters is that it draws the coolest air it can find across the fins of the radiator.

In you cars case the coolest air it can find is at the front of the vehicle.

The coolest air that both radiators can find on the VFR is still at the front of the bike. What happens when the oem sucker fan runs is that it pulls air from the left side of the bike, heats it with the left rad and then heats it again with the engine & header then pushes it out the front of the bike. The right side rad gets next to no flow and what it does get is already much hotter than ambient so the right rad just becomes a heat mass, not a heat sink.

The fan is dsigned to keep the heat off the rider, it works really well if the bike is working as it should. If your sitting in 100 degree traffic, at 223 degrees, the fan should kick in and take temp to the lower 200.s . I find the fan very effective sitting in traffic in its ability to drop the heat. But 100 degree in san antone or Austin will be hot no matter.

Turn the fan the other way, the Hot air will be hitting you in the face

I don't find it hitting me in the face. It used to rise up around the triples and bake both my hands, but now only my left calf and my left elbow get warm. I'd rather put up with that instead of overheating my motor.

In fact the only issue I still have with the heat on the VFR is that if I'm really stuck in hot traffic, the bike will go into the state where the fan constantly runs.

I think I may make some sort of extractor duct to make sure that all the heated air from the rads is ejected to the atmosphere and none can find a stagnant spot behind the fairing.

Let's see here now... there is no problem when the bike's stationary... that's the whole point of this thread... the original hypothesis doesn't pose a stationary bike as a problem... nor the hot air being projected onto some part of the rider's anatomy.

The issue being dealt with is the unfortunate fact that when in motion, the stock configuration creates a flow of air in direct opposition to the natural air flowing in the front of the bike in such a way that the cooling system is unable to perform its function effectively... so much so that eventually, if these conditions continue (for example traffic or road conditions that do not allow one to ride at more than approx. 80 km/h, or stop and go traffic, etc), the cooling system enters into a loop whereby the bike slowly gets hotter and hotter, the fan stays on for longer and longer... and this puts the charging system (battery, R/R, stator and wiring harness), and the fan's motor, under continuing stress.

This tends to be a problem moreso in areas with relatively high ambient temps... or city riding (not something the VFR was really meant for I guess).

The fan is efficient enough when the bike is stopped... but who tends to only have the fan click into operation when they're stopped??

I have done some serious testing of both OEM fan blades and VTR fan blades in varying conditions to see what effects are achieved in the real world application.

The stock blades are much more efficient when stopped or at such slow speeds that the naturally incoming air from the foreward movement of the bike doesn't overwhelm the force of the fan. Considerably more efficient. Apparently this has something to do with it being more effective to pull a load than to push it, against some resistence like friction (in this case the radiator fins).

When in motion between say, 20 km/h to 80 km/h... the OEM fan is rendered useless... and this is possibly when one most needs the fan to be effective.

At speeds above 80 km/h... the force of the naturally incoming air overcomes the stock fan's airflow and the bike starts to cool down... this can take considerable time if the bike has already heated up big time with the fan constantly coming on... it also will not do much good for the fan's motor... fighting against this antagonistic force...

The VTR's fan blades are less efficient with the bike stationary. At least on my 5th gen, after several cycles of heating and cooling (104 - 96 - 104 - 96 - 104ºC), the fan was no longer able to cool the bike to below the cut-off temp... (96ºC)... and the fan would just stay on... after several more cycles, the fan would cut out without having managed to drop the temp... as if it had just given up.

I have seen the temp display start to blink (121ºC) only once. Apparently the bike shuts down at 125ºC.

This was with the stock fan with some very spirited riding in a very hot climate. I of course immediately pulled over and turned off the bike.

The VTR blades are infinitely more efficient when in foreward motion as the airflow they create is complemented by the naturally incoming air from up front...

You will only notice the hot air when your stopped (at the lights for example)... just as you do with the stock fan... but on a different part of your body.

If you tend to spend a lot of time with the motor running but the bike stationary, then don't do this mod!!

I end with an enigma: Isn't it funny how stators and R/R's fry in the hot months of the year???

FUnny thing... while working away on the rear one... and listening after tensing the rear CTT... lo and behold it would appear the noise my VTEc's been making is due to a bung exhaust seal on one of the two joints just inside of the roight foot... header pipes I believe... rattling like a rattle snake at idel and 3000 RPM and when backing off a fistful of gas... got a set of locakble BF Pliers on there and noise disappears... currently using a metal radiator hose collar fixer thingy to keep it stable...

These things hard to swap out?? Any special tips from anyone to save finding things out the hard way??

Lucky number 19:

Probably getting into an even bigger can of worms... never worked on the exhaust before...