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Jroberts3

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About Jroberts3

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    Maryland
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    01' Honda VFR 800, 84' Honda Nighthawk, 21' KTM 250xc

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  1. Hello everyone. Per Grum's and Danno's suggestions, I confirmed all injector and coil wires are the correct color and I measured all sensors for voltage and resistance. I also pulled the throttle bodies and replaced all vacuum lines and made sure the L shaped vent hoses are connected to the underside of the airbox. I found no leaks in the old hoses or T's, and the bike still behaves the same and will not start. There are still no Fi codes, kickstand down, in neutral, kills witch run, ignition on. There coils appear to have low output but video from my previous post shows decent spark. I am beginning to wonder if the problem is a combination of the coils and possibly fuel pump too. Let me explain. The manual (p 5-48) says to turn the ignition on for 10sec and measure volume from the return hose. The problem though, is the fuel relay kills the pump after (approx.) 1.5sec. and there is no way to perform the test. This is what led me to jump the relay (improperly), and fry the ECU. I was never able to get ANY fuel coming from the return line. I tried direct 12v to the pump and bypassing the relay. The only measurement I could get was the output volume of the mainline without a load. I do not have a fuel pressure gauge with a banjo connection. While the volume was good, I am starting to suspect the fuel pump may not be up to par under load. Everyone I talk to says to replace the pump, it's 20yrs old after all. What do you guys think? Sensors & Electrical: I am working with a cheap multimeter and my understanding of the settings is a bit fuzzy, please bear with me. ECT: 2.44 Ohms 4.19v (voltage slightly under spec 4.75-5.75) MAP: 4.96v WITHIN SPEC TPS: 4.96v, continuity exists between wire harness ground and TPS ground, no continuity between light green & ground - WITHIN SPEC IAT: 2.61 Ohms 4.95v WITHIN SPEC Baro: 4.96v WITHIN SPEC COILS: The manual has no specs for primary secondary resistance, but 3-5 Ohms seems to be the standard. For voltage I set the multimeter (with peak voltage adapter), DC to 200v because the next lowest is 40v (this is where my understanding is fuzzy -not sure how this affects the reading). Spec is anything over 100v so all of these appear to be lower than spec. Again, not sure about the settings and how that effects the reading. Please let me know. Coil 3 - Primary 3.2 ohm, Secondary 2,021 ohm - Peak V 47.6 Coil 1 - Primary 3.2 ohm, Secondary 1,951 ohm - Peak V 51.9 Coil 2 - Primary 3.0 ohm, Secondary 2,017 ohm - Peak V 52.1 Coil 4 - Primary 3.0 ohm, Secondary 1,976 ohm - Peak V 51.6 That's all I have for now, It's been a journey and still looking forward to getting her going. Thanks all
  2. Greeting everyone, hope your weekends were great! The noid light arrived and I was able to do some testing. First though I would like to clarify some things brought up in the posts. The ECU: By pure luck the E-bay seller was only an hour drive from my house so I picked it up. His listing has a video of the bike running that it came from so I felt confident about it. Air Filter: The filter is OEM and looks tired but functions, no rips, tears or excessive dirt buildup. I've tried starting with and without the filter, no difference (The mouse nest was between the cylinders near the thermostat and oil pressure sensor (under the throttle bodies) . Fuel Tank & Pump: When I drained the fuel tank it had a very small amount of "dust sized" particles floating around. I wiped them up with a rag and it wasn't much, the inside of the tank is clean, no rust. The fuel filter and stainless steel mesh are in great condition, the filter has no debris stuck to it or in it, and the material is in tact without tears or rot. Spark Plugs: The spark plugs are new and correct number: NGK CR9EH-9, they have approx. 2min run time but evidence of fouling is starting to appear in the right cylinders. Note: this is the same condition with the plugs that came with the bike. See Pics. Today I was able to test with the noid light and measure voltages at the injector plugs. I also tested for spark and made a quick video. I had to stop testing because the battery became low - I was cranking it a few days earlier and forgot to put the battery on the charger. I also tested some of the vacuum lines but the needle bounced all over the place - I'm guessing this is normal during cranking. Maybe I need a better gauge that holds the highest value? Please advise. To Do List: I still need to test MAP voltage and vacuum, TPS and other sensor voltage/resistance. I am also waiting for a Peak Voltage Adapter to arrive for testing coil output. The flooding (more wet), condition on the two right cylinders has me puzzled and thinking I should replace all the hoses and "T"s. The downside is the unique hoses take 7-10 days to ship. I will continue testing electrical while waiting for the hoses. Again, I want to thank everyone for their suggestions, please keep them coming. Battery Condition: 12.57v Key off, 12.00v Key on Noid light fired on all injectors Injector 1) 11.75v Injector 2) 11.78v Injector 3) 11.76v Injector 4) 11.81
  3. Thank you DannoXYZ and Grum, that was very helpful. I installed the new ECU and the fuel pump primes good again. Still no start, not even a little fire like before. Will double check spark later. No codes or smell of fuel. I ordered the Noid light from the Amazon link. Testing the coils with the noid light, do I need a special attachment or use alligator clips? I am helping a friend this weekend and cant work on the bike till Monday. Noid light is arriving Sunday. Thanks again, I couldn't do this without your help!!
  4. Thank you Grum, DannoXYZ and Ducnut, I really appreciate your suggestions and patience as I try to make sense of everything. This is what I did this evening: 1) Installed all components 2) Tested all fuses for continuity - all fuses have continuity using a voltmeter 3) Battery voltage test: Key off = 13.22v Key on = 12.49v 4) Tested ESR blk/pnk = 12.87v 5) FCR test Key off = Blk/wht to Brn 0.01v Blk/wht to Brn/Blk 0.00v Key on = Blk/wht to Brn 12.2v Blk/wht to Brn/Blk 0.69v (earlier I said it hovered around 2v and I believe I was mistaken. I am video recording and writing everything down now, Very sorry about that) 6) BAS test Key off = Grn to wht 0.00v Key on = Grn to wht 12.02v Removed one bolt and loosened the other side, turned key on and lowered one side of the sensor until ESR clicked, repeated test 2 times. I did not measure resistance in the relays because I am confused about the terminology and parts identification and don't want to make another mistake. Plus I am guessing the voltage test points to a fried ECU rendering the ohms test moot. What I mean is I am unclear as how to identify the the activation coil vs solenoid click and the corresponding terminal. Also not sure how to apply this technique in the real world "measure for ground on other activation line when it's activated." Again, I stopped out of an abundance of caution. There is some good news though, the ECU on E-bay is only an hour away and the part numbers match exactly (3877-MBG-A01). I am off work tomorrow but not available to work on the bike Friday thru Sunday as I am house/dog sitting for a friend. After I get the ECU, should I perform the tests again, or only if fuel pump doesn't prime? Also the bypasses on the throttle bodies are held open (when cold) approx. 1/16 to 1/8inch. From what I've read here, that is correct. When it ran the one time for approx. 2min the coolant temp made it to 135. Should I test the wax unit with an electric heat gun? Next steps? Thank you again everyone
  5. Thanks Grum, the 20 & 30 fuses are in tact as well as all the others. The FCR plug has a lot of dielectric grease making it look melted, but its in good shape, no melting or burning whatsoever. I will test for 12v at Engine stop and Bank Angle, should I test the relays too? Apply 12v and listen for click? I plan to order an ECU from E-bay and will confirm part #'s. Fortunately there are a few available for $150 - $200 and I am still ahead value wise on this bike. I only paid $1200 for it, though stings nonetheless
  6. Thank you DannoXYZ and Grum, I deserve every bit of public humiliation I receive. Sadly, I knew better and did it anyway. I am humbled but not deterred and really appreciate your time and effort helping me. The injectors came from Rocky Mtn ATV OEM parts finder page. That's where I get most of my stuff as I mostly ride dirt bikes. Prior to your responses I was considering testing the other relays ahead of it, - engine stop, bank angle (pg. 21-24 of the manual) but the engine cranks so not sure if that makes sense. The voltage at the fuel stop relay hovers around 2volts - shouldn't there be zero if the ECU is fried? Should I assume the ECU is toast and take a chance on an E-bay unit? After that, then what? Someone else mentioned the air bypass and wax unit. When cold the bypasses are held open approx. 1/16th to 1/8th inch. Sound correct? Thanks again everyone, any and all suggestion are welcome.
  7. Thanks again everyone, I was able to confirm the fuel pressure regulator operates without leakage into the vacuum tube, but in the process took 2 steps back. I did a stupid thing and jumped the fuel cutoff relay trying to apply more pressure to the regulator (never listen to voices in your head, ugh). It work for a few seconds but then something happened. I'm not sure what but now it appears the "go signal" doesn't get to the pump. I tested the pump via direct 12v (still works), and all the fuses are in tact. I switched out the hi/low beam relay while a new one is on the way. Could I have fried one of the other relays? I am hesitant without further direction, don't want to mess up something else. The bike cranks over, but no fuel pump activation. BTW great looking machines bmart!
  8. Thanks for all the suggestions everyone, I will check the fuel reg after work this evening and report back. Fingers crossed.
  9. Greetings everyone, I am new to the VFR forums and have found this site to be a tremendous resource. I hope you guys can help me troubleshoot my issue. I wasn’t looking for a project when I came across this non-running 2001 VFR, but after research and YouTube videos, I decided to take a chance (It was the dyno pull videos - that sound is something special). It’s a low mileage bike with only 8,594 original miles! (not a typo). It still has the OEM tires, though dry-rotted and bald. Previous owner said it ran last time he rode it but does not start now, selling due to surgery and getting older. Been dropped on both sides but not crashed, will need fairing kit. He said its been sitting about a year, but judging from the amount of dirt I’d say more like 4-5 years. It was stored in a lean-to type shed with a dirt floor, basically had a roof over its head but open to the elements otherwise. Got it home, new battery and changed all fluids except brake, fresh gas and turned the key, no green neutral light on the dash. The neutral wire and oil pressure wire were severed and there was evidence of a mouse nest. Rigged a temporary ground for neutral wire, the fuel pump primed and she turns over but no start. At this point I became aware of the vulnerabilities of the VFR harness and R/R. I inspected every single plug (including the hidden multi block grounds), and found zero corrosion or indications of heat, pleasantly surprised. Will do RR upgrades as soon as is practical but want to get it running first. Continuing on… Pulled and tested fuel pump, 250cc @ 10sec out of main fuel line. Checked spark, weaker than I like, orange color. The left cylinder plugs were dry and the right side wet with fuel, injector voltages are little more than 12 volts each, 12.2 I think . Digging deeper: pulled fuel rail and throttle bodies, lines were clear, rail was clear, no debris or varnish. Vacuum lines still supple, no cracks or dry-rot (I know I Know, should have replaced them, I still may). Repaired the neutral and oil sensor wires, ECT wires were ok. Tested the injectors, no clicky clicky on the dry cylinders, wet ones clicked. Installed 4 new injectors (helpful hint, same part number as Honda Civic), and tried to start. The bike started and ran one time for about 2min. I was able to record some of it, see video of idle and attempted start. Hard to start, very low idle initially but slowly stabilized at 1100rpm then slowly increased to 2k rpm, then slowly decreased to under 1K rpm and died. Gave it tiny throttle while at 2k and it immediately wanted to die. It hasn’t started since and only gets the initial fire. There are no FI codes, unplugged the MAP to create a code to verify and it worked. My intuition tells me its probably one of the vacuum lines but thought I’d check here before removing the throttle bodies a second time. Again, I really appreciate the forums here and I welcome any suggestions. Video Not starting: Video Running:
  10. Hi Jroberts3, Thank you for your donation of 25.00 USD. We look forward to improving the forums with your donation. Thanks VFRDiscussion
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