kaldek

Okay, thanks. I knew there were stator problems, but didn't realize the flywheel would "wear" and need to be replaced as well. Maybe it looses magnatism?? I don't think it actually touches the stator, does it??

No no, they don't wear - only the stator wears out (heat causes the insulation in the wires to break down). The main problem was that the stator and flywheel combination on the 2002 was so small that it could not charge the battery and run the lights when the bike was idling. In other words, it wasn't manly enough and the bike needed a bigger one!

I fitted a Shorai Lithium Iron Phosphate battery today from Shorai power. Very impressed so far; even though my '02 has a weak charging system (original 2002 model stator), the voltages this battery holds when under load are way better than lead acid. When the engine is hot and the lights and radiator fan are on, she still cranks the motor hard when starting. My charging voltage seems a little low but I'm thinking that's to do with the battery not being charged fully when I measured the voltages.

Just curious, why was the flywheel replaced?? Was it damaged somehow?? I didn't see any reason in the write-up.

It's listed briefly in the first post - basically the 2002 model VFRs had a weak charging system that would flatten the battery when idling if the lights are on and the fan kicks in. And when the stator starts to wear out the problem only gets worse.

There was a recall for these in the USA, whereby the stator and flywheel were replaced for free, but in some cases folks did it themselves. Like me, for example, doing it now. :-)

My new flywheel arrived today, and I dropped down to the local bolt supply company since my flywheel puller bolt hasn't arrived yet. I can confirm that M20x1.5 RH thread is the correct bolt size for removing the flywheel on any 6th-gen VFRs.

The guys only asked for a couple of bucks but I threw them $5 since I've managed to get a couple of free bolts off them in the past.

Only problem is, now that my Shorai Lithium-phosphate battery has arrived my signal dynamics voltmeter is no longer complaining about low voltages at idle. It's even sitting above 12.5 volts with the engine off and all the accessories powered up (and headlights too).

Otherwise, stator diagnosis seems pretty sound?

Yes, continuity between any 2 of the three yellow wires should be 0.1 - 1.0 ohms. There should be no continuity between any of the 3 yellow wires to ground. That would indicate the stator is shorted to ground.

Shorting to ground likely indicates that the insulation on the stator windings has broken down somewhere. You would normally think that the wire has to burn up before it gets through the enamel on the copper wire. I'd be interested what those stators look like once you get them out.

Cool, I think I can manage that. I was thinking it was ohms and whatnot. That's the r/r?

Nah you can also do the ohms test, but I've had stators pass the ohms test but not deliver any AC voltage! Ergo, I think the ohms test is freakin' useless.

So I'm left with coincidental simultaneous stator failures as a theory at the moment. If memory serves, the proper test procedure requires a slightly more advanced multi-meter than I have. Need to read up on that...

It just has to do AC voltage - the $7 unit I got from Tightwad does that!

Just disconnect the stator plug and start the bike. While it's running, check the AC voltage between pins 1-2, 1-3, and then 2-3 on the output of the stator. They should be about 18-22 volts, but all the same. Then rev the engine to 5,000rpm, hold it there and repeat the test. The AC voltage this time should be about 65 volts, but again they all need to read the same.

If you get different voltages on the three readings (any more than, say, a volt or two), then the stator is stuffed.

Well, I fitted an FZ1 FuzeBlock to my 2002 today! I've gone from FOUR additional negative wires on my battery down to one (the fuzeblock itself). I already had a relay fitted for a few years since I hooked up a Signal Dynamics voltage monitor, but this puppy is wayyy better than my crappy unfused relay.

Personally I mounted my Fuzeblock opposite the battery, on the back of the battery holder. My bike does not have ABS, so there's no piping or valves in there to get in the way. Something else I did was put a fuse inline between the battery and the Fuzeblock, because I was a bit concerned how close the positive and negative poles are to each other on the Fuzeblock case. Without a fuse on that line, if the positive wire came loose out of the fuzeblock and started arcing on the frame it would not be pretty!

P.S. For anyone curious, the three devices on the negative terminal of the battery were my Powercommander V, my Powercommander Autotune, and my Cameleon Oiler. The PCV does not have a positive wire (it takes power from the TPS feed I believe), so I fitted its negative wire into the same pole as the negative wire for the Autotune.

I'm overseas so naturally shipping was more expense; nobody in Australia sells Shorai batteries.

Maybe you should become a dealer/distributor for them?

Nah. No money in it - that's the whole "problem" (if you want to call it that) with international trade; it's cheaper to let one guy do it and sell millions at low margin than thousands at high margin.

Hmm, I only had time for a quick read through because I'm getting ready to head to work. But, your first and last paragraphs seem to be at odds with each other.

Heh, true! The last paragraph is more about long term effects there - like over 10,000 miles or more. I should have asked how long yours has been in place for?

I've edited my last paragraph to stop it being so contradictory!

Hmm, based on that forum discussion I just ordered a Shorai battery. My 15 month old $280 (yes, seriously) Yuasa battery died a week ago, and I'll be buggered if I'm putting that much money into a battery again.

Total cost shipped was $192 dollars, direct for Shorai. I'm overseas so naturally shipping was more expense; nobody in Australia sells Shorai batteries.

The same Yuasa (YTZ-12S) I paid $280 in Aus costs $130 in the USA, and to make matters worse our dollar is currently worth more than yours. Us Aussies are getting FLEECED.

Then again, here's something worth reading:

http://www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=23613.msg252255#msg252255

Seems that LiFePO4 is best matched with MOSFET regulators (or Compu-fire switching regulators). The post above refers to a guy whose Shorai battery caught fire due to a manufacturing defect (since resolved), but that the stock regulator only made the problem worse when the system demanded a lot of current.

Too soon to blame MOTY? Or did the MOTY's somehow compromise my charging systems?

Unlikely that the MOTY compromised the charging system. If anything, it would be the other way around. Most likely your stator and/or reg/rec has crapped out and it's drained the MOTY dead.

The thing with the MOTY batteries is that their amp/hour rating is lower than for a similar SIZED lead acid battery (even though they weigh less), but they have more cranking power per rated capacity. What's likely happened is that your charging system has died and it has drained your MOTY battery flat, which takes a lot less time than it would for a lead acid battery. Pretty sure the stock batteries are about 10 amp/hour, but the MOTY is 4 amp/hour. At 1 amp of drain, the MOTY will last a lot less time than the stock lead acid battery.

And hence the problem. If your bike has an unreliable charging system, the MOTY batteries aren't necessarily the best option because they may not get you home. Pretty sure a VFR with its headlights on is going to be pulling at least 10 amps consistently (2 x 55 watt globes = 110 watts / 12 volts = ~10 amps, more if you add in your fuel pump, ECU, injectors, dash, and accessories).

What I think is still "up for debate" is what effect a MOTY battery (or other LiFePO4 batteries) have over a long period of time (say, 10,000 miles or more) on a charging system that uses a regulator which dumps current into the stator when its regulating. Does the charging system have to do more regulation more often? Does this heat up the stator more than with a lead acid battery? Does this then burn up the stator? Only time (Edit: and a lot of miles spread across many different people with these batteries) will tell if a pattern emerges.

Does anyone know what size thread the flywheel needs for a flywheel puller? There's a bucket of tools on eBay etc but none of them mention the 2002+ models and the thread size needed. Honda Australia is quoting me $122 for the tool which supposedly costs $16 in the USA.

The best info I can find is that the thread might be M20 x 1.5 RH thread. A tool is available from Motion Pro in that size..

NFI

Wow mate, that was the most useful post, EVER!

Anyway I took a punt and ordered the M20x1.5 RH tool as listed above. We'll find out soon enough if it works!

Does anyone know what size thread the flywheel needs for a flywheel puller? There's a bucket of tools on eBay etc but none of them mention the 2002+ models and the thread size needed. Honda Australia is quoting me $122 for the tool which supposedly costs $16 in the USA.

The best info I can find is that the thread might be M20 x 1.5 RH thread. A tool is available from Motion Pro in that size..

Is it supposed to be set to drip on the middle of the chain?

Yes. The Cameleon oiler provides a point of lubrication between the sprocket and the chain; it is not trying to apply oil to the O-rings and side plates (although some does spread to there). The intention for chain lubing these days is not to force oil through the O-rings and into the inside of the chain (that's supposed to be a lifetime grease inside the link pin which never comes out and is never contaminated), but rather to lubricate the contact point between sprocket and chain for reduced friction and reduced wear so that both last longer.

It's a bit different to your Scottoiler and others; the new CCO oil is much thicker and is a Polyolefin oil which is designed to be consumed, but also resist flinging off the chain. My dad's scottoiler runs out of juice at about 800 kilometres, which is almost as annoying as lubing the chain by hand! Using the provided CCO (Cameleon Chain Oil) oil a single charge can last thousands of miles. I can't as yet speak for how well this new oil resists flinging whilst also not attracting grit - we'll have to give it some time and miles to see its behaviour.

I should say that there is nothing stopping you from using a thinner oil in the oiler. You would just need to set the oiling times lower so that you didn't completely splatter the chain and rear wheel.

Here is the original (outdated) Cameleon oiler guide for different oil viscosities which you can use as a general guide for different oils and different riding styles:

Cameleon Oiler programming for different oil viscosities

Note that the older guide does not consider the weather. The new guide focuses only on the weather and not the oil viscosity because it assumes you're using their 190 SAE oil.

Cameleon oiler New oiling guide for their SAE 190 oil

Instead of a long hose being the reservoir, I'd get a brake fluid reservoir or something in that nature.

Why? The flexible hose makes it much easier to store the reservoir of oil out of the way. Certainly I can't think of anywhere on the VFR where I could fit a large reservoir anywhere near the capacity of the hose, which is about 150 mL. The supplied oil bottle is 250mL, which is about two charges.

Cameleon Oiler - pretty clean installation!

Today I fitted a Cameleon chain oiler to my 2002 6th-gen. This oiler is an electronically controlled programmable oiler which uses gravity feed and an electrically operated solenoid which controls when oil is delivered. It works very well and uses a thick (190 SAE) polyolefin oil which resists fling and yet is slick enough to not attract grit.

The process is quite simple and the design of both the VFR and the Cameleon oiler work well together, resulting in a nice clean installation.

The main components of the job are:

• Find a location for the oiler
  
• Find a place to route the oil reservoir tube
  
• Determine where to mount the semi-rigid delivery tube
  
• Route the flexible hose from the oiling unit to the semi-rigid hose in a way which will not be affected by suspension travel.
  

The solution to each of the above is very simple for the 6th-gen VFR, and would be similar for a 5th-generation bike as well. Mounting the unit itself really presents an obvious locaton of the subframe rail, followed by routing the reservoir tube behind the passenger footpeg bracket and then up inside the ducktail. A good benefit of this routing is that there is a little (but not too much!) warmth from the exhaust and it helps the oil to deliver well even in colder conditions.

Mounting of the semi-rigid tube was probably the part that took the most time. As this tube is provided with some mounting clips you can use the existing chain guard and chain guide bolts to hold secure the hose to the swingarm. It looks neat and hardly stands out at all. The end of the rigid hose where it delivers oil should not be cut until you have all your routing sorted out, otherwise you may cut it too short. I used another of the supplied clips and used the chain guard bolt just near the rear sprocket to secure the semi-rigid tube in place here, and then bent the tube to the point where it touched the chain and then cut off the excess. A dremel with a cut off wheel would be best, or a pair of bolt cutters will also do.

Once cut to length, I directed the end of the semi-rigid tube so that it was one inch above the chain and angled to deliver oil right to the middle of the chain rollers. Finally, I routed the flexible hose from the cameleon oiler unit behind the chain guard, and then over and across the guard (under the brake hoses) to reach te semi-rigid tube.

Cameleon Oiler Flexible hose routing #1

Cameleon Oiler Flexible hose routing #2

Cameleon Oiler rigid hose dripper installation

Well this is interesting. I fitted my Autotune back to the bike and turned it on, left it on, and rode to work. Only a few cells were modified, and even then only a few points up or down.

This is actually what I was hoping for some time ago but didn't seem to get. It's been so long since I disconnected the Autotune (July 2010) that I can't rememebr if I even bothered testing it after I had my custom tune done on the dyno.

I think it's worth posting that I've reinstalled my Autotune - absolutely nobody wanted to buy it!

But more importantly, has anyone noticed all the updates to the PCV software lately? Two firmware updates this year and also two application updates.

Some of the new stuff looks to be Autotune tables based on air pressure readings, rather than throttle position. There are also fuel trim tables based on fuel pressure rather than throttle position as well. I wonder if there's any applicability there for us VFR owners?

I dunno what you blokes are all on about. It can get mighty hot here in Australia, and the most I've ever seen on my temp gauge was 112 degrees sitting in traffic. When that stock fan comes on, it works - the temperature drops. Also, the engine does not pink when under load even in these hot temperatures.

Ergo, why bother changing? You should see the fan on a CBR1000RR - it's about 1/10th the size of the radiator, sitting in the top right corner. Guess what - it works too!

Why don't you just use a tach face from a 2006 model onwards. I mean, they're white around the edges!

I found the schematics/instructions for one that was developed for an RC51 initially, then adapted to the ST and the VFR. I am thinking of trying it out, looks like a fun build.

http://www.speedzilla.com/forums/rc51-general-discussion/43866-my-home-built-rc51-gear-position-indicator-includes-plans-1.html

The designer - P.D. Fruth - is a legend. He's the guy who designed the exhaust servo eliminator circuit for the CBR1000RR that I purchased from him earlier this year. His work is sublime!

Once again, HobbyKing is your friend.

Check out these bad boys!

Gold plated 150amp connectors, $10 for three sets of five pairs. Oh yeah!

Or if they're too big you can go smaller.

These things are great because their actual purpose is for connecting to three-phase AC brushless motors - which are basically exactly what our stators are (in reverse).

Thanks for the help, I will keep investigating. :fing02:

I should at least say they are definitely Denso injectors, and the example you showed me looks exactly like the injectors off my bike. The only difference is the other numbers printed on the body.