enzed_viffer

It's like this: I was having some misfiring / stumbling issues, and hadn't changed the plugs for a few years, so I decided to replace them. I asked at one of the local bike shops, and they didn't have standard ones or iridium or platinum ones for the VFR in stock. Furthermore, their prices were pretty high.

On a whim, I decided to ask at the local car parts store. They didn't have any in stock, but said they could get some in 2 hours. Their price for iridiums was cheaper than the platinum ones at the bike shop, and only marginally dearer than the 'standard' NGKs, so I bought them.

The bike seemed to start easier the first time, but doesn't seem an Fasterer! Moar powerful!! than before.

You were lucky the gym bag is all you lost. A few years ago, the owner of a Anniversary Model VFR (the red and silver 5th Gen) who lives near me woke up in hospital with severe injuries. He didn't know what had happened to him, but the cops believed his bag had come adrift from his rear seat at around 120km/h, gone into his back wheel, and made his bike crash.

The bike was totalled, and he'll never ride again.

Dunno what percentage acid is in cola, but I dare say it would be effective as a rust remover too. Most commercial rust 'neutralisers' are orthophosphoric acid, which is an ingredient in softdrinks. The acid partly removes the ferrous oxide, partly converts it to a phosphate complex, which is more stable than the straight oxide, so it tends to stop the rust progressing.

Aluminum corrosion is a little different; the straight oxide is fairly stable, so it tends to be only one molecule thick on the surface then stops progressing. All you end up with is the aluminum looking a bit dull. However, get some other substances in the mix - like salt - and it can form less stable sulphates, chlorides or whatever.

If you're the same weight as the bike was designed for (what is that - 70kg?), then springs will be fine. Otherwise, the front springs will be too soft: 0.74kg/mm, whereas they need to be at least 0.80, or more if you weigh more than 80kg/170 poonz. They are also progressively-wound springs, which is not the best for setting up suspension.

The other issue with the OEM Showa suspension is the damper valving in the front doesn't flow oil very well, so the suspension doesn't cope well with sharp bumps, making the action harsher than it should be.

The rear suspension doesn't offer much adjustment, which is fine if it's well matched to you and your riding.

You could manage OK with the stock suspension if you're not a porker, and ride only on smooth roads or round town. However, it's one of the best "bang for your buck" mods you can do. There's little you can do to improve power, unless you spend $5k on a Torocharger, and most other things are just cosmetic or for bragging rights. Braided lines, for example: they won't improve your brakes, just change the way they feel (although they can arguably make them feel 'wooden' and therefore worse).

Another mod that's got good "bang/$$" value is a Factory Pro Evo Star shifter kit, especially if you install it before your transmission has any significant wear.

Suspension.

Airplane stripper and plastic paint scrappers worked great however I did go through a few scrappers as well since the stripper melts the plastic after a while.

When I did my '90, I made a scraper out of a scrap hardwood strip. No problems with that dissolving...

I'm getting closer to doing the 800's wheels; although the silver paint doesn't show the scratches as bad as the white on the '90 did, they're pretty messed up.

How about two VTEC rads? (slightly larger than 5th gen) Right side up front(has fill neck), left side under the tail with a computer fan?

You could add a contour to the right rad by bending it in a wooden jig in a vise; someone here did that with an oil cooler... might fit under the lower triple that way? Connect with aluminum tubing to dissipate heat?

Sounds promising.. a bit like a benelli tornado with under seat mount rad and fans?

You mean, like a Britten, with an underseat radiator, and cleverly designed aerodynamics to route airflow through the middle of the bike and past the radiator? (Benelli came along more laterer).

Well coderighter, I think your idea has merit, especially if you can get the appropriate trigger threshhold. :blush:

Where would be without people having creative ideas and putting them into practice?

A couple of years back, I had my son make me a programmable version of the Hyperlights flashing brakelight. It worked really well, until something in the circuitry blew. The really crazy thing was the local transport agency had decreed they were illegal! You know what the reason was? They said they thought they would cause target fixation!

What's even crazier, is some time after I had them on the VFR, they were one of that same agency's proposals to reduce motorcycle accidents!

Don't forget that with all this Forking around you guys are doing to the front that you need to consider increasing the rear spring rate to better maintain the bikes balance and get better performance from your forks too.

I first did the forks with valving & .95's and I installed an Ohlins on the rear with a stock rate spring, though it was an improvement it wasn't right.

When I finally installed the proper rear spring on the rear (19kg for my 200 lbs) it transformed both ends of the bike!!! fing02.gif

Turns out running a soft/stock rear spring with new stiffer screwed up feel on both ends because the stiff front transfered more weight to the already to soft rear making it feel worse and the stiffer front tended to bounce across many bumps and irregular surfaces instead of absorbing them.

I had a old post about it " transformed" don't know if it's still around, but consider stiffening the rear spring in close to the same percentage as the front and you'll be much happier.

(note if you just commute and don't hit the twisties you may never notice it) cool.gif

Interesting to have this thread dug up, as I recently had a similar situation to baileyrock, with front springs that were too stiff compared to the rear, but in my case, it was just because the front was too stiff. Like him, I had 0.95s in the front, beautifully revalved with Race Tech and Ohlins parts and new seals and bushes, to go with the Elka on the rear. It handled beautifully steering wise, but was a bit harsh on choppy road surfaces at certain speeds (around 40-50 mph).

The front springs were subsequently replaced with Ohlins 0.90s, and revalved to match, and the ride was much more plush and compliant. It meant though that this highlighted the incorrect setup of the Elka. Luckily, I dialed everything back to the mid-point settings, hoping that Elka would've set it up so these were close to being right for my weight, and it turned out a couple of clicks off this felt pretty good. I've lost some of the scalpel-like precision, but I'm getting used to that. It's still MILES better than the stock setup.

Jason - I don't know what spring Elka have in the back (but I'd like to know - is it stamped on it? Can I find out from John at Motoworld or Elka themselves?)

My weight is around 190 pounds, so I think the 0.95 would be the right front spring for you. As for Ohlins vs. Elka, personally, I'd go for the Ohlins, but that's based on the fact that the only suspension shop here is an Ohlins one, and because Ohlins have much more road and track experience than Elka, so that gives them an advantage with knowing the best set up for internal valving.

I finally got my forks back yesterday morning (after rushing them off last Tuesday, only to have them sit in the workshop for a week :biggrin: ), and installed them last night.

CKT (the suspension people) replaced my 0.95kg/mm Sonic springs with 0.90 Ohlins ones; if these are too firm, then it's a free swap for some 0.85s.

They also rejigged the damping, but I don't know quite what this entailed (probably modified shim stack), and put fresh Ohlins fork oil in, made from cold-pressed BabyAfghani FurSealWhalePeguins (we... it ought to be, at NZ$52/litre, which is not much less than 4litres of engine oil costs me).

I haven't yet ridden the bike, or even checked the sag, as the weather is crappy today, and I'm too tired to ride safely. A full report will follow once I've tested them and dialed in the Elka, which is now mounted on the left rear footpeg bracket, so I can get at the compression damping dial easily.

Turns out running a soft/stock rear spring with new stiffer screwed up feel on both ends because the stiff front transferred more weight to the already to soft rear making it feel worse and the stiffer front tended to bounce across many bumps and irregular surfaces instead of absorbing them. Felt fine on smooth roads and had greatly improve anti dive, but the rougher the road surface got the worse the front felt. :cool:

I discovered that last week, before I sent my forks back. At first I thought, "Yup - Robert (the suspension expert) is right: these forks are too firm". Then further into my ride, I realised that the back end wasn't set up quite right, and was probably making the front end feel worse. So, I adjusted the rear a bit, and eventually got things working pretty well together. However (but!) a bit more tweaking to see if I could get it even more betterer, and I'd stuffed it up. More tweaking still, and being really tired after a couple of hours riding (haven't done any decent rides for a very long time) and it was even crappier than it started out.

Maxima ten weight is very very thin compared to ss8 , and both are supposed to be ten weights. Your right the weights seem to mean nothing from brand to brand.

Yeah, that's what Robert said too: when you actually test the oils with a viscometer, the stated 'weight' is pretty much bogus. It also has little to do with engine oils' stated viscosities.

The bouncy feeling Im having now feel like very small rises in pavement but you cant see the changes in the pavement. Best way to describe is a Out of balance tire, But instead of it bouncing at Hiway speeds its usually below 70mph, Actually backwards from a out of balance tire..

That's exactly how mine felt too, before the work on the internals. Over bumps, it wasn't too bad except on bigger bumps, which apparently was the ports in the damper being too small and not flowing oil quickly enough.

After the first lot of work, it felt fine at less than 40mph or above 60, but in between, it was harsh, because the damping was set up perfectly to match the springs, but because the spring rate was too firm for my weight, the springs weren't absorbing smaller bumps enough, and it was damping the suspension movement too much.

After buying an fitting an Elka 2-way shock, I originally fitted 0.95 Sonic springs (because that's what their spring calculator recommended based on my weight (around 190poonds) and riding style (normal street). The forks were VERY bouncy, and I couldn't afford to get them revalved at the time, so I drained the oil and put in some Motorex 15W fluid. It helped somewhat, but was still bouncy, so I sucked some out and added some Motul 20W, and dropped the volume slightly.

Still harsh, so I backed off the preload, which made little difference.

Recently, I sent the forks away to be overhauled: new seals and bushes, Racetech valves, modified shim stack, every lined up, measures, optimised. The local Ohlins guru put some very slippery (and low viscosity) oil in, and told me that there is a huge difference between some of the oils being sold, and that as they don't necessarily follow the official standards, the numbers don't mean much. He also said that the standard VFR damping didn't flow enough oil, so was a bit harsh on compression.

The forks felt MUCH better, and matched the rear end better, so the ride was very controlled. It didn't seem as smooth or compliant as I expected, and when I recently did my first test-ride on our crappy country backroads, although the ride was fine at 100km/h (~60mph), it felt too abrupt in action and was very tiring. When I talked to the Ohlins guy about it, he said he could revalve the forks (free of charge) but that he thoght they were probably oversprung, and as he'd valved them to match the springs, probably overdamped as well. Soooo... they're currently away being resprung and revalved. Again.

Apparently, Ohlins' recommended spring rate for the bike is only 0.85kg/mm, quite a difference from the 0.95 Sonic and Racetech recommended, and closer to the 0.74 standard rate. He said that he felt 0.95 would be fine for typical American roads or for the racetrack, which sounds right, as the suspension felt great at higher speeds or on smoother roads.

So, they should be back in the next couple of days, as he was trying to get them sorted before September 9th, when he's off to visit Ohlins in Sweden for a couple of weeks. I'm kinda anxious to get them back, after nearly a week of driving everywhere. I'm also anxious about getting the Elka dialed in; I've got the preload right, and that's about it. The remote has been relocated from under the seat where it was, to on the left pillion peg bracket, so I can adjust it more readily on the road.

Good work, Dr. Seb! :blush:

It's coming along very nicely, Sir!

Man, the Vtec sure puts a nasty wiggle in the torque and HP curves. :blink:

Fantastic looking bike you've got there, Roy! :rolleyes:

Which year CBR1000RR is that? A co-worker has a new CBR, but it was a 2008 IIRC. The mirrors look identical in shape to the VVFR800, but the angle and mounts are a little different.

Glad to hear you're OK, Doug.

Apart from the fairings, the bike doesn't look that bad, so I'm sure you can rebuild it! You can make it better than it was before! Even more bionics.

I've only ever once left my helmet on the VFR - usually take it with me. I do have a combination lock with cable that I use when leaving things on the bike (like my Ventura bag, if I'm popping into shop for a few minutes).

Can or has anyone tried using a CBR 1000 rear shock on a 6th gen? Looks like the reservior is angled up which maybe a problem.

You're obviously not talking about late model CBR1000s (or CBR600s) as the shocks on these is incorporated into the swingarm. :warranty:

Anyone else? :fing02:

Yeah, awrrriiiight - I'll play your game. 2001, with straight whatsits. Supposedly a UK model, but who knows? It doesn't have HISS like it's spozed to. I reckon it's been cobbled together from a pile of parts. That would explain the mismatched front disks, now cunningly disguised with a can of gold wheel paint, so they don't look quite so obviously different.

Both Racetech and Sonic Springs spring rate calculators tend to come up with a spring weight that's a bit higher than it should be, so as Insomniac said, go with the 0.90 springs.

Sonic supply spacer tubing, and good instructions for how to measure it before cutting. When you calculate it, wind the preload adjusters in a couple of turns, so that it gives you some leeway for adjustment either way. I did this, and when I cut the spacers, I came up with a sag of 40mm - bang on the money!

I used a hacksaw then sanded the ends smooth (I have a pipe cutter, but the spacers are a bit thick for that).

I found Sonic Springs to be very helpful and efficient, and the price was very good too!

My experience with stiffer fork springs was different. After I fitted the Elka rear shock, I found the soft front end was kinda overwhelmed by the rear suspension - they felt totally mismatched. So, I ordered some 0.95 kg/mm springs (maybe a trifle too stiff) from Sonic Springs. The front end felt REALLY bouncy and underdamped, so I siphoned out some of the new oil (Motorex 10W) and put in some heavier oil (Motul 20W). This helped things a bit. However (but!) because the front damper valves ports are - according to the Ohlins suspension expert who's currently overhauling my forks - too small and flow oil too slowly, the action on compression was harsh. On rebound it was better'n it was, but still not good. This was a result of a much stiffer spring overwhelming damping components that were both inadequate and kinda worn out.

But (however!) as others have said, the springs DO improve the ride over bumps, and the handling, crap damping or not. It's a good (and cheap!) easy mod to do.

Again does any one know what the "air glide" was for? Other thank looking bad I can't figure out it's need. Is it the appendix of the vfr? :laugh: :laugh:

The air guide presumably guides air somewhere. Why? Dunno. To make the bike go a poofteenth of a mph faster?

Maybe it's bad Engrish, and it's supposed to be a "hair guide" to stop hair going into the rear sprocket (like when you have Rapunzel on the pillion seat).

Oh - and "those ugly stickers" DougFromIndy was referring to are the ones for tire pressure, chain wear, etc. You don't need those; the chain wear one is useless (you should be able to tell when your chain is worn, and in any case, it won't work now you have a bigger sprocket on), and the tire pressures you should know. In fact, many owners use different pressures anyway. For a Clean Look, the only stickers/decals you need are the Honda logo, and maybe the VFR one. All warning stickers are teh ghey, and tire pressures etc belong in the owners manual.

Huh.

Just realised I don't have one of those.

Anyway, your New! IMPROVED! lightweight chain guard is a definite hit. I removed the air guide years ago, but didn't think of cutting into the chain guard. Now I will.

Fork rebuild with new springs & Ohlins rear, Michelins and Viola!

Where did you put the viola? I don't see it in the photo... :laugh:

This is off topic(ish) but reminded me, looking at your beautiful pipes.

I followed a wine-red VFR800 home last night. Dunno what pipe he had on (I think it was a TBR low-mount), but it sounded gorgeous: not very loud, but a very nice tone (nicer than my Satantune, to be honest...)

He'd probably gone for the cheapest option (apart from a helmet, he wasn't wearing proper bike gear either), and while it sounded nice, it looked bad from behind, with two gaping caverns under the rear cowl where the OEM mufflers used to live.

On the plus side, he lives only a couple of blocks from me, and the wine colour looked nice. Probably a cabernet or pinot noir...

Toro,

Looking over pictures of your kit I don't see any injectors ...

vince

Vince, I originally installed larger injectors, but have since changed the fueling system setup. I now run the stock injectors with higher fuel pressure, and the rideability, fuel economy, and throttle response have all increased.

Your kit has a higher-rated fuel pump; does it also have a higher pressure FPR? Is that one I see in one of the photos?

One possibility from all the time and research you've put into this product is that you will probably be able to sell components to VFR owners who can't afford the whole kit, but are interested in components like the Laminova cooler, and the uprated fuel pump.

But I guess you knew that. :fing02: