Das Bone

I'm still wondering why some are complaining of apparent fueling issues while others seem to be just fine? :unsure2:

A duo buy Rick!!

Thanks for the info Choco and taking the time

Appreciate it Sixbeans!

I had a PC3 on my '03 which basically took care of the vtec fueling glitch and as I mentioned to House, was exicited to read in the reviews that those issues had been resolved with the '14. Good to hear you have no issues. How many miles have you got on yours? House and others have mentioned fueling issues which is a bit disheartening.

Thanks,

Craig

Certainly House, thanks Thinking about it after answering your PM, I wonder if the Evap canister has(does yours have one) might be somewhat responsible for the issue you described?

Thanks Skid

Hey guys,

Been away from VFRD for a long time but am contemplating getting the '14 VFR 800 and coming back into the fold so to speak :-)

So, I'd be grateful for info from those of you that have the '14 800 and have had the previous gen VFR 800. I had an '03 for about 6 years that I loved. I'm basically interested in a comparison from you guys, i.e. engine, suspension, ergos...all the basic stuff ;-)

Much thanks in advance,

Craig

Hey Kev,

Really glad to hear that you're doing so well and are "almost" back in the saddle.....that is just frick'in awesome :biggrin:

Looking on Ebay at an ST1300 pad, that looks like what my pad looked like, but I swear the writing was upside down.

Where can I get one besides Ebay? I can't find it on the Fiche.

Looked at the tank pad again, and I DON'T appear to have the ST1300 one. The one I have is more hourglass shaped, but the top is bigger than the bottom. Of course it still appears to be upside down, as it has CSS molded in it at the top (and upside down) so that would mean if installed right side up the fatter portion of the hourglass would be at the bottom.

gotta find a tank pad soon

The one I pictured(ST) actually says HONDA on it FWIW. Don't know if it's no longer available anywhere here in the US... you may have to order from the UK from someone like David Silver Spares etc.

Another option that I used was to make a "pocket" to slip some good quality GP style armor in. I did this with the "jean" style Draggin's.

I had a seamstress cut a slit along the top of the Kevlar at the knee area creating the pocket. I had her sew velcro along that slit for closure. Then slip the knee armor in and you've got armor that will stay in place, is not attached to your leg/comfy, and can be removed for washing.

:biggrin:

Get a Honda ST1300 for the rear of the tank and use Tankslapper for the sides. I use that combo and it works like a charm.... :biggrin:

+1 on the Honda's ST tank pad. I've had it on my 600RR and it works well...here's a pic for ya.

Brown81 has it right IMO, this seems to have devolved from a short guy who was asking about doing at track day on a vfr and getting his knee down to actual riding technique. There seem to be quite a few of you who like to ride like morons on the street and think you actually know how to ride. I was once a dumb dumb who rode like das bone on the street dragging my knee etc. I was a moron for doing it the three or four times I actually rode "fast" on the street. I find it laughable how they brag about their "skill level" and have there friends post about how fast they ride and how hard they are to keep up with etc. You're no different then a squid in a t-shirt doing stop light racing drunk on a Friday night. You are just as likely to side swipe or have a head on with a family in a minivan with your so called "skill" as a drunk driver is. I guess I'm old or something but I have zero respect for people who ride like that on the street.

Wow :biggrin:

I would like to personally thank everyone who has made a positive contribution to this thread.

If you consider me one of those then you are very welcome :angry: and thank you :fing02:

So, he just says a bunch of bullshit in the book, and saves the truth for the real Rossi's out there huh?

Yeah, I bet. :excl:

Wow Brown :mad:

I'm always amazed at people that are soooo sure about conversations that they were not even there for....and yeah, you've certainly been keen to toss inuendos and barbs at people. :angry:

Apologies to the OP for all this BS :fing02:

Another perfect example of why I don't post here much anymore....................

This is mainly for Slow :cool:

Here's a vid clip of an interview with Ben Spies at the YCS. Cool to watch on it's own for sure, but slow check out the instructors foot position at about 12 seconds in while he's leading and demoing for the group of students following him...and they're going really slow

http://roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=37980

At this point we've all expressed our thoughts and reasons why we personally do what we do. Doesn't seem like we are going to change each others minds at all so maybe we should just agree to disagree at this point and move forward opening up the thread for any questions that some may have or?????

Just MHO :491:

Brown81...are you speaking in terms of having spoken to Nick about the technique aspect for street riding or are you going off the book?

Have you been to one of their schools as well?

Thanks

Why, did he personally tell you that this is the correct position to be in while street riding while you were at the track school??

Yes, I have spoken with him personally back in an '05 class I think it was, and let's just say that his answer was a bit different then the book/Pace....mainly due to the book being geared more towards the "average" street rider and the fact that it's very difficult to teach many of the techniques at a high level by way of the printed word. The "in person" experience is geared much higher and handles more advanced techniques understandably.

Regardless, we all should do what we feel makes the most sense once there's a thorough understanding of the pros and cons.

Brown81...are you speaking in terms of having spoken to Nick about the technique aspect for street riding or are you going off the book?

Have you been to one of their schools as well?

Thanks

Here's a couple of vid links that I found a while back(and just remembered) that some may find helpful/interesting.

This is Nick Ienatsch and Ken Hill, former instructors with FS school and now with the new Yamaha Champions school based at MMP doing an short body position seminar.

These are the guys that I was fortunate enough to study with. It's a bit difficult to hear some parts due to background noise, but still good.

And here's a vid of the two of them playing on a couple of Buell 1125's at a Carolina Motorsports Park track day :fing02:

Fair enough, but as you've alluded to..everyone's style/technique can and will be different. I'm of the school that weight transfer is extremely important in terms of maintaining less bike lean angle which equals safety....and that's a major part of the reason that as you stated that I've got tons of lean angle left in the pics... EXACTLY!!!! That's a good thing in my mind....especially on the street.

As we've also talked about in this thread, as the bike's lean angle increases the knee is obviously forced more inward.

This thread started with the OP asking about dragging knees being a shorter person. Being shorter myself :fing02: , I felt like I could add some relevant info.

Jeremy mentioned the foot position aspect, which atleast he and I agree is the basis for all "correct" body position. So, I posted up a couple of foot postion pics as a basis for someone to start working on their body position. Your first post basically said that you'd never seen anyone fast ride like that. OK, fine...but obviously there are some pics here of guys riding pretty quickly using that basic foot concept.

You also said that there is no single "correct" technique but simply variations depending on each persons personal style etc. I agree...so I guess my question would be why bag on what Jeremy and I were saying...after all what we do works for us as well as many others. I think we've explained the rational behind our respective technique's pretty clearly.

Why not post up some pics of yourself with your personal riding style and explain what you do and why you do it? Maybe we can all learn something more in the process :cool:

All I am talking about is the one picture of you with your knee and foot sticking out at 85-90 degrees from the centerline of the bike. I don't see people twisting around that much. That pic of Spies at the top of the page looks like he is sticking his leg out at 60 degrees or less from the centerline of the bike. I guess if you're going to put your knee down on the street you don't want max lean angle, but I don't drag my knee on the street very much (it's been years).

IMO if you stick your leg out that much you are losing a lot of bike control under braking as your turning in since you don't have as much grip on the tank.

This is from about three years ago. I've dropped quite a few seconds since these were taken.

I don't really find it an issue in terms of control when braking honestly. I get plenty of anchor with my outside knee and am able to trail brake etc. with no problem.

I, like most if not all of us started riding with a very upright style using little or no body and relying entirely on countersteering. Then I learned to start using the body with the rotate around the tank style of body positioning with the knee out a bit and that was a definite improvement in terms of feel, control etc. Then I learned to ride the way I do now and have found that by far for ME atleast, this "style" if you will has been far better in terms of control, feel, confidence, safety, etc. Different strokes for different folks and all.

Bottom line is if what you do works for you and you're happy with it...then that's great. :cool: People can decide for themselves which path they want to take hopefully getting enough "real" info to make an educated choice. :fing02:

Thanks for posting up your pics

Capt Bob....thanks for the kind words dude....guess I owe a you breakfast now, huh :laugh:

I'm really surprised that we're even having to go this far with this discussion as some of the negative posters obviously watch racing and obviously see the pro's using much the same basic techniques(with personal variations of course) as we've been talking about. There's reason they do what they do the way they do it.

I really wasn't trying to be negative in my prior posts, sorry if I came across that way. I was just trying to get the point across that correct body position is from personal technique and experience. I guess if you want to put your knee and toe out 90 degrees at turn in you can, but IMO there is no reason to. When I was first starting to ride fast on the track I was doing the same thing, but as I've progressed in pace if my knee goes out more then 45 degrees I know I'm doing something wrong. You have tons of lean angle left in your pics. All I know is I don't do that, I win some races from time to time and I very, very rarely crash. (besides being smooth, that’s my goal every time I ride :D)

Fair enough, but as you've alluded to..everyone's style/technique can and will be different. I'm of the school that weight transfer is extremely important in terms of maintaining less bike lean angle which equals safety....and that's a major part of the reason that as you stated that I've got tons of lean angle left in the pics... EXACTLY!!!! That's a good thing in my mind....especially on the street.

As we've also talked about in this thread, as the bike's lean angle increases the knee is obviously forced more inward.

This thread started with the OP asking about dragging knees being a shorter person. Being shorter myself :blush: , I felt like I could add some relevant info.

Jeremy mentioned the foot position aspect, which atleast he and I agree is the basis for all "correct" body position. So, I posted up a couple of foot postion pics as a basis for someone to start working on their body position. Your first post basically said that you'd never seen anyone fast ride like that. OK, fine...but obviously there are some pics here of guys riding pretty quickly using that basic foot concept.

You also said that there is no single "correct" technique but simply variations depending on each persons personal style etc. I agree...so I guess my question would be why bag on what Jeremy and I were saying...after all what we do works for us as well as many others. I think we've explained the rational behind our respective technique's pretty clearly.

Why not post up some pics of yourself with your personal riding style and explain what you do and why you do it? Maybe we can all learn something more in the process :fing02:

If weighting the inside peg, foot position and all that stuff is so "important" why have the MotoGP riders been doing the foot dangle under hard braking and turn in for a few years? Sure foot position is important, but sticking your knee and foot out at 90 degrees at turn it doesn't do anything for you IMO. It's all about your personal technique. How many of you would look at B. Spies's style and say he is doing it wrong if you didn't know who he is and how fast he is? There is no "right" way.

I have heard of the foot dangle thing but never really seen it, I tried searching youtube but can't find it (I don't watch the races), can you give an example? I had assumed it was done under hard braking before turning, I can't imagine how they can move their body around very well with one foot off the peg. Most of the on-board videos I did see, showed them with a knee stuck out far, then retracted as lean angle increased.

I looked up some videos of Ben Spies as well, and it appears he does exactly as we have been saying, in fact he seems to be particularly exaggerated, with his entire body hung so far off, by mid turn, his knee is almost back straight forward and he is nearly dragging a hip and elbow. Here is a screen grab from the first video that came up.

I agree, that pic looks pretty much the same technique wise to the pics we've posted :blush:

_DSC6716.jpg

I'm really surprised that we're even having to go this far with this discussion as some of the negative posters obviously watch racing and obviously see the pro's using much the same basic techniques(with personal variations of course) as we've been talking about. There's reason they do what they do the way they do it.

Nice write up TV. I've always run 36/42 for street riding...never had any issues and get pretty decent mileage too with the PP's :laugh:

Why do you need to put your knee out 85 to 90 degrees then?

As far as this comment from your previous post:

" I'd say that I'm kinda fast and I can't see how I could twist around that much or ever need to".....I'd suggest stretching

And before I try and answer your question from this post, answer this simple, straight forward question for me.....what do you think is the purpose/reason for "hanging off" a bike? What's the goal that you're trying to achieve by hanging off?

Hanging off the bike moves the center of gravity of the bike allowing me to use less lean angle. On my F2 if I did that I would run out of ground clearance before the apex. All I'm trying to say is that picture looks overly exaggerated in my opinion and you look like the rider (you?) is straining to get a knee down on the street.

OK, not quite sure but it seems like your first and second sentences contradict? Probably my misunderstanding of what you're saying.

The point I was trying to make and that I think you seem to agree with from the first sentence is that yes, the main point of using a hanging off style(hate that phrase actually :cool: ) is weight transfer to the inside allowing the bike to remain more upright, yes? As we've talked about and seem to agree on, this gives one the benefit of less bike lean angle meaning you've got more clearance, more traction, which means a larger safety margin. This is all good to my way of thinking. This is not even getting into the additional control benefits that result from this technique, i.e. style of riding

So to get back to your foot position issue... by positioning your foot the way that I showed, the knee gets kicked out farther towards the inside which means more weight further inside than if you were to keep your foot at a 45 degree angle and your knee out a couple of inches as you've said you do.

So, if the point is weight transfer to the inside as we seem to agree upon...then the reasoning behind this further rotated foot position should be clear.

As for your comment about me straining to get a knee down...not at all. That's simply the result of the foot positioning that I use which does indeed kick the knee out creating that "triangle of light" through the inside leg. Whether you choose to take that at face value is your choice of course, but I can definitely say, I'm not straining to get the knee down at all ( that's not the purpose anyway) but simply a result of my personal riding technique.

Why do you need to put your knee out 85 to 90 degrees then?

As far as this comment from your previous post:

" I'd say that I'm kinda fast and I can't see how I could twist around that much or ever need to".....I'd suggest stretching

And before I try and answer your question from this post, answer this simple, straight forward question for me.....what do you think is the purpose/reason for "hanging off" a bike? What's the goal that you're trying to achieve by hanging off?

I've never seen any one who is even remotely fast doing whats in the last pic with there foot.

Well, I do believe there are quite a few guys on this very board that are "remotely fast" that do exactly that with THEIR feet.

If you want to get your knee out to give you the most weight transfer this is exactly what you need to do...and yes, this is exactly what was taught at FS.

It's a technique, and it has very specific reasons behind it. If you're not interested, then fine. Sorry, but your statement tends to indicate to me atleast that you know not where you speak or, at a minimum, aren't willing to entertain something new to you...your loss.

Wow - and your toe doesn't drag? I've been playing with jamming the SOLE of my boot up against the bike to keep my toe from dragging (which it does sometimes even when I think I'm on the ball of my foot) - and that feels awkward as hell. And I don't even have big feet. Size 9. :laugh:

Occassionally, but not very often really. Mainly happens, to me atleast, when there's a dip in the road while cornering or something along those lines.

Try moving your foot so that only about 2" hang over the edge of the peg. :fing02: