Baileyrock

Didn't you get some instructions from DB?

Hi guys

I'm new on this forum and new in the VFR world! I just bought a 2003 VFR with ABS. When I did the road test prior to purchase,

the bike seamed pretty straight and smooth rolling. But it's now been a week since purchase and I feel the suspension is

getting more and more "loose". When I ride, my front tire seams to jump continously. I checked the tire pressure and it

is ok. I do have the impression that the tire has bumps in it but i dont think it could cause such bumping.

when I brake only in front, the bike really go forward... I have done my fork seals on a custom before, but i never

done it on a VFR. Could it be my seals that are dead? missing oil? there is no sign of oil leak... no rust on cylinder...

also, when the bike is on it's side stand, if i grab the rear handle i can easily rock the bike ! as if the swing arm was

rocking slightly horizontally .

I know it's a lot of explanation but i really need to know what's going on! dont want to get ripped off by the shop !

Any comments? suggestions?

Thanks

Hi and Welcome to VFRD! :fing02:

What tires and pressures are you running? 36/42 is almost ideal pressures.

I would think it would be more of a tire issue than forks unless it's some hack rebuilt wreck! :cheerleader:

Set sag rates to your weight asap (search forms)and if you weigh over 160lbs the VFR is sprung to soft for you in general!

Not sure what your talking about with the movement on teh side stand! :fing02:

Bastige!!! :warranty:

Good stuff and thanks for sharing. Glad Rob was able to help out the embedding. :woohoo:

BR

What role does the air chamber play here?

The air works as a secondary spring, it will effect the full range of travel some, but has the biggest effect on the last portion of travel and can be used to help prevent bottoming. It is a tuning tool and all you need to do is +/- cc's of oil level. :blink:

.90/1050 for 185-190 sounds bang on.

oh I so need to put my 1200# in.... just don't wanna take it apart again. I think I'll loose 15 lbs, may be easier.

Jason,

Don't worry about it, just ride the thing as you are SO close to perfect as is.

We just wanted to see what that small change would do. I just went 100 lbs stiffer and don't see much of a change except maybe gaining some free sag, but I'll have to do a two person re-check of the Ohlins w/1050 lb spring. :blink:

I think I'm .925 or .950 w/1150 lb rear now on the street Vtec and .950/1050 on the track Vtec.

BR

Recently installed a Daugherty rebuilt shock (a stock 5th gen shock with a 1050#/in spring and gold valving), and I must say that I am very happy with the results. I had my front-end race teched a while back (.90 springs and gold valves) and the back-end was lacking. After a 200 mile ride today, my back has been transformed. It keeps the line well, and I felt confident all day. When I set up the rear suspension sag, I got a rider sag of 31mm and a free sag of 9mm with three turns of the preload adjuster (from all the way out) with 3/4 full tank of gas. I may lower the preload to see how it feels, but for now, I'm pleased. By the way, I weigh 185 lbs., but when I ordered the shock to be rebuilt by Jamie, I weighed 173-ish. Based on the desired sag numbers, I'm thinking that a 1050#/in spring is good for weights between 170-190 lbs. +/- 5 lbs.

Sounds good! :fing02:

I just installed a Penske on my street Vtec with a 1150 lb spring. With 10mm of pre-load I got 32-33mm Rider sag(in gear) with 9.5mm of free sag, pretty happy with those numbers and I weigh 185-190 at the moment!

Finally changed my fork fluid after 40k miles! :blink:

Now I just need to got out on it and work of rear shock settings. :wheel:

My Ohlins has the a 1050 lb spring and I think I got 10/32mm on it?

BR

Does anyone know if a shock from a VTR1000 will work on the 6th gen?

It looks to be the same length shock, but wanted to see if anyone had tried it. If so, is the spring rate similar?

TC,

Looks like it's a good fit for a 5th gen length wise as the VTR shock is listed at 326mm where the 5th gen is 325mm & the vtec is 317mm. Stroke is 63mm vs 58/53mm for the VFR800's.

If it's an aftermarket VTR shock like Ohlins or Penske that has ride height adjustment then it might adjust short enough for a 6th gen. :cheerleader:

BR

So I know from this thread that F3 guts drop into 5gen tubes, and F4 guts drop into 6gen tubes, but will F4i guts drop into a 5th gen? I have the opportunity to get a set of cartridges off a smashed up f4i at my local junker

Also, would getting the lowers off the F4 do me any good, or just cause me to have to swap out the brakes? The forks themselves are toast, but the lowers seem ok...

F4/F4i are both 43mm tubes and the 5th gen uses 41mm tubes so no.

If your willing to De-Link the brakes then you can just slap a full set of F4/F4i forks on the bike and have fully adjustable forks. The F4/F4i fork lowers do nothing for you! :biggrin:

Worthless w/o pictures! :angry:

Congrats, now show us your work! :mellow:

BR

Just to keep the thread alive... Last year on my 4th gen, I revalved my forks with Racetech gold compression and rebound and the suggested (on Racetech site) .95 front springs. I also upgraded to the 929 rear shock. Found out the spring was too soft when I couldn't get a decent sag with rider. At the time I weighed about 185lb.

Over the winter, I have lost about 40lbs and am now down to a much healthier 145lb (I'm 5"7). I am going to get Jamie D. to change my rear spring to a harder rate, probably 19kgs to balance out the bike. I am just wondering if the whole thing is going to be too stiffly sprung for my now trimmer weight. Maybe I should just carry a bunch of water in my saddle bags?

Honestly, I'd rather not have to disassemble the forks again, change springs, re-valve to match, etc. I want the easy button... I just don't know if there is one. Any opinions?

I mostly commute, but tend to ride fairly aggressively.

Have you check free & Rider sag on your bike since dropping to 145 lbs?

I would venture to guess that at 145 the front is too stiff now and the stock 929 shock wouldn't be to far off(check #'s).

I would just drop in some .85 in the front and see how the valving feels. Measure the stock 929's free & rider sag and go from there, I would think a 17 kg rear max. If you plan to remain at 145 you won't want the .95's at all IMO & and making the entire bike Too Stiff for balance is not a good approach IMO.

BR

Does the sensor have to be moved, or did they just not know how to install it?

I just called a guy at a local shop and he said that I should bring it in to have a map made. He said it will be $260 to get a map for it. He then said that I wouldn't need to use the Autotune module. At this point I am confused. Didn't I buy the Autotune so that I wouldn't have to spend $260 on the Dyno to get the right map. Isn't the point of the Autotune to do the map for me and then keep it tuned on the fly? Why would I want to disconnect it after I got it working initially?

Just PM coderighter, he's the man.

Avoid your local shop as he's an idiot! :angry: The whole point of autotune is to eliminate the need for a custom map made by a Dyno guy. Makes the dyno guy an un-needed part of the equation.

Yes there is two 02 spuds and only one sensor, but I'm not sure what you need to do here.

Again PM coderighter. :laugh:

PS I think there is a download of the maps coderighter made for his 06 around here somewhere. :fing02:

Good Luck

BR

"Least Favorite Mods"

And all this time I thought this thread was about me, Boy I feel better now! :goofy:

BR

You dont need the f4cartridge itself as it is too short to work properly with the VFR upper and lower fork tubes, You do need to use the VFR cartridge with F4/F4I internals inside it..

.. The Adj rod, and hollow rebound rod with rebound valve on the end is all. Well you need the fork cap too.. And yes it does work..

The F4 adj rod end (needle part) is specific to the rebound rod itself(Hollow tube w/ rebound valve on 1 end and bolts to the fork cap on the other)

If you use the F4 cylinder cartridge in the VFR forks the rebound valve actually tops out on the cartridge itself instead of the built in stops inside the forks. And will also pulll the Comp valve thru the bottom of the cartridge destroying the C-Clip that holds it inside the cartridge..

not sure if Im right but I refer to the cartridge as the long -+1" tube that the rebound valve rides inside of..

..

No, your right. The rebound valve is attached to the bottom of the tube(hollow) so as long as you use the F4/F4i tube in the VFR cartridge the rebound needle with be right where it needs to be in relation to the rebound valve. :comp13:

Was thinking of something else I guess. :wheel:

One of the suspension shop guys just modded the top out spring on the F4 cartridge assm in order the make the F4 cartridge work.

I guess either way will work if set-up right! :fing02:

BR

YES!

It's a basic bolt in swap, with the only concern is the shorter F4 tube length.

I run F4/F4i forks on my Vtec track bike and if you run the forks slide up 10mm from stock like I do On my street VFR (for quicker turn in) then you'll have enough fork tube to clamp the clip-ons to. They (tubes)might be slightly lower than the top of the clip-ons but shouldn't be an issue.

The F4 happens to run the same fork spring as the stock VFR(.74's) which are too soft if you weigh over 150-160 lbs.

Stock VFR wheel and rotors can be used, but you will most likely need to use the F4 axle and play with spacers from both to center up wheel.

I think if your planning to De-link it's a great & easy swap.

BR

Thanks BR! I knew a quick answer was out there. Now, if you don't mind, I have a couple of follow-up questions. Do I just swap the F4 tubes into my VFR or do I use the F4 steering stem and the VFR upper triple tree? I thought the F4 tubes are 43mm and the 5th gens are 41mm. Do I need to get a different triple tree? RE: spring rates, I weigh 220+ lbs buck naked so I'm looking at getting a set of Traxxion fork springs to bring the spring rate up into my weight class. What are your thoughts on the steering stem bearings? The bike only has 15k miles and while I have it apart I can replace or upgrade. Also, if I pick-up an F4 rear shock do you think the shorter fork tubes and shorter shock would keep the steering geometry about the same? Thanks for your help...

As FM said you would have to use the F4 or Vtec triples for the 43mm tubes. Using F4 triples will change the Trail because the F4 tube to stem off-set is closer than the VFR. This could be good or bad depending on what you want. Trail numbers are Not my expertize! :fing02:

Vtec triples will keep factory number much closer or the same vs F4 trees.

At 220 lbs you should be running at least .95 kg fork springs and a 1200 lb rear spring, you'll have to decide on what other valving mods you'll want and for sure I would install either the F4/F4i or 929 shock with a 1200 lb spring on it, ideally have that shock revalved to the 1200lb spring if it's in your budget.

If you are Inseam challenged(short legged) you could take advantage of this mod to drop your bike, but there's close to a 3 to 1 ratio on the rear so if you installed a F4i rear shock which is aprox. 3/4" shorter it would drop the rear of the bike around 2.250". :wub: That's a bunch and if you didn't drop the forks the same amount(not really possible) the bikes balance & rake would be way off.

So if you had the forks 12mm higher in the tubes you would need a shock only 4mm shorter than stock to match it. :biggrin:

Check the length on the F3 cartridge itself. THe only parts I used for my F4/6thgen conversion were the rebound rod and attached rebound valve. I tried using the F4 cartridge but it was too short and didnt let the forks extend fully..

Sam,

I don't see how it would be possible to Not use the F4/F4i cartridge and expect to have any rebound adjustment as the length of the rebound rod is specific to the length of the cartridge. If you used the longer VFR cartridge the adjusting rod end(needle part) would be no where near the valve orifice it's trying to regulate! :fing02:

YES!

It's a basic bolt in swap, with the only concern is the shorter F4 tube length.

I run F4/F4i forks on my Vtec track bike and if you run the forks slide up 10mm from stock like I do On my street VFR (for quicker turn in) then you'll have enough fork tube to clamp the clip-ons to. They (tubes)might be slightly lower than the top of the clip-ons but shouldn't be an issue.

The F4 happens to run the same fork spring as the stock VFR(.74's) which are too soft if you weigh over 150-160 lbs.

Stock VFR wheel and rotors can be used, but you will most likely need to use the F4 axle and play with spacers from both to center up wheel.

I think if your planning to De-link it's a great & easy swap.

BR

So am I correct in believing that simply flipping the oil cooler over will up its function and help keep the engine a few ticks cooler? Anything I can do to keep that motor turning for a bajillion more miles :goofy:

I've always wanted to go through a 5th gen motor the way you are! so sweet!!

Installing a 6th gen cooler will add an extra row of capacity! :fing02:

Well I seem to have a odd problem, no shop or importer have a 45 thoot sprocket in stock in my country!

I was going to change them early next week.

So I´m in to ither stock 17/43 or go one down front to 16/43.

I was also planing to rise the rear a bit by shiming the upper shock mount. Going down one on front sprocket and riseing rear end, will I have my chain rubbing the swingarm all the time? :fing02:

I run the 16/43 on my 5th gen and don't see that(raised rear) as an issue. :fing02:

I think there is some question on whether the 950 lb spring is the correct rate for TC's weight!

He was able to get desired Rider Sag, but were not sure about it having Any or proper Free sag. We plan on installing a 1200 lb spring on this shock soon and testing results, we'll post Free & Rider sag numbers as soon as we get them. :wheel:

BR

Att the moment I sitt and wounder if I will get stock 17/43 or 17/45 for my 5th gen.

I would like second a bit lower in twists, spechally 2 up, but I will go a lot commuting next season, so how mutch will it effect fule economy?

I would suggest the 45(ever 46 if you 2-up a bunch) rear for sure and unless your slab the whole way at 90 mph I doubt it will effect mpg much at all! :biggrin:

I'm not a real aggressive rider, but I would like my suspension to be more tuned to my weight. Is it an option to get a heavier spring to go on the stock shock? I weigh about 225lbs.

Howdy!

Your weight will require springs in the area of .95 kg front(min)and 1200 lb rear spring (min) rear. You don't mention what Gen VFR your riding, we can better suggest Mods if we have more info.

Welcome to VFRD btw.

BR

Sorry about the slow response. My bad on the year, it's an '02. I didn't think to put the year in since it was the "Sixth Gen fourms"

Is the 6th gen spring alone replaceable on the stock shock? I just got the bike and dont' want the wife to slit my throat by spending 800 dollars on a new shock quite yet.

Thanks!

No you are right it is a 6th gen thread, but many 5th gen guys have posted too and what works/fits a 5th gen doesn't always work on the 6th. :fing02:

Yes you can change out the spring on the VFR shock, but it's a POS compared to most other Honda sport bike shocks and I wouldn't waste the time or money putting a 1200-1300 lb spring on a stock VFR shock.

Options:

The easiest mod I would suggest is to install a CBR 1100XX shock on it, it's not stiff enough for your weight but it's a bolt in mod and will quicken the steering a little because it's slightly longer. Stock VFR rear shock has a 15.3 kg spring, the XX has a 16.8 kg spring. It's only 10% stiffer, but that's better and would add some extra ground clearance too.

The next step would be slapping a 1200 lb spring on a F4i shock with a 12mm (or bigger)top mount spacer and hope there's enough rebound adjustment to control the 1200 lb spring, if so your in like flint. :goofy:

Either one of these shocks(F4i, CBR xx) can be had for $50 ON EBAY and the F4i shock has rebound & compression adjustment.

Springs avg. $100 per end(front/rear). The 929 shock is a common mod for 5th gen, but there's a fitment issue on 6th gen that requires a mod to a bracket at the rear of the bike too.

The next step is to have someone re-valve an F4i shock for the 1200-1300lb spring, JamieDaughtery is member here who does that. This is probably around $300 w/new spring.

Used Ohlins or Penskes are another choice, I found a Ohlins on eBay from a CBR F2/F3 for $300 and installed a 19kg spring w/no valving change and it works Great, only had to make a spacer for the top mount.

Lots of options out there which cost less than new but require some slight mods.

BR

This is a great topic and I look forward to it's development so i am Pinning it. :fing02:

Thanks and good luck.

BR

ps get some pics in here before I have to Ban you! :wink:

I'm the same as Jason. 220lbs with no gear. I got an Ohlins rear shock with a 19.36Kg (1085lbs) spring. When I first installed the shock with everything backed out. I had 9mm free sag and 39mm rider sag. I had 9 turns on the adjuster to get 7mm free sag, and 35mm rider sag. After reading this thread, I don't feel I was too far off with my spring choice. You all agree?

Yes, you are right in range. Maybe slightly low on the spring rate, but close enough to not spend another $100 on another spring. Unlike Jason who has a 1200lb to slap on his, I'd like to see what numbers he gets after that change. :rolleyes:

I weigh 190 and us the same 19kg spring.

BR

I got my shock back after the leak and Elka did good by me. Quick free service. I stuck it back in with the 1100# and got 35mm with 9mm free. I also checked the numbers with my bags on and loaded and only lost 3mm of sag. 3 clicks cured that on the pre-loaded.

I'll put the 1200# in at the end of the month Maybe and most likely keep it in. Right now the ride is amazingly awesome, can't believe it's so nice after a 28% increase in spring rate. Good valving makes all the difference.

Great, glad Elka did you right Jason. :fing02:

I fought the same type attitude about thinking that a heavier spring would make my ride harsh! It does not, it's valving that effects harshness. Running the proper spring rate only make the bike work for your weight, valving is whats needed to smooth things out!

BR

I'm the same as Jason. 220lbs with no gear. I got an Ohlins rear shock with a 19.36Kg (1085lbs) spring. When I first installed the shock with everything backed out. I had 9mm free sag and 39mm rider sag. I had 9 turns on the adjuster to get 7mm free sag, and 35mm rider sag. After reading this thread, I don't feel I was too far off with my spring choice. You all agree?

Yes, you are right in range. Maybe slightly low on the spring rate, but close enough to not spend another $100 on another spring. Unlike Jason who has a 1200lb to slap on his, I'd like to see what numbers he gets after that change. :fing02:

I weigh 190 and us the same 19kg spring.

BR