N8sVFR

I got a new Quadlock mount for the phone, and a RAM mount for the top triple stem hole.   That pairs up with the Sena SMH10-10 that I just got for the helmet, along with the special baseplate that will allow me to use my custom molded in-ear Westone-2's with the Sena.  :)  Looking forward to my October trip to the NC / VA / WV mountains when I can listen to music and take calls while on the bike, free of wires!!

So, I've gotten one response.  Anyone else?  Going once. . . .twice. . . . 

Bump . . .

Hi guys — I’m coming out to Denver (where I lived nearly 15 years ago) for business and then staying for a few extra days to see friends and maybe do some riding. I’ll be in town from the 25th through the 30th. Anyone in Denver willing to loan or rent me their bike for a couple

of days or know of any reasonably priced motorcycle rental outfits?  I’ve been a member of the forum for many years, been riding for over 20 years.  I’m already familiar with Colorado Motorcycle Adventures.....Thanks!!

On ‎8‎/‎25‎/‎2018 at 1:18 AM, Grum said:

Hey Variable.

Does this help, check out the location of Item 2. Straight from the 6gen owners booklet. As mentioned I just found it easier to place it where I showed you with the Yellow arrow, your choice.

Cheers

 

BINGO -- that's the spot.  It's actually more under the side panel, as you can see from the image, but obviously you have to remove the seat to get to it.  Not sure if yours will be there or not, but that's where it belongs!!  :)

13 hours ago, VARIABLE9 said:

That’s right in line with my Q&A, thanks everyone ( @Grum j. I didn’t want to purchase another if Honda hid it somewhere ‘special’. And especially now that I have it, stuffing the tool kit into the well between the subframe rails and undertray seems a ‘tight fit’ to put it mildly. 

No, Variable. I understood your question, and was trying to tell you the specific location where the spanner handle is stored. I’ll have to take a pic of my 6th gen tomorrow and post it. There IS a specific location where the handle is stored, and it’s not in or with the rest of the tool kit.....

On ‎8‎/‎4‎/‎2018 at 9:56 AM, VARIABLE9 said:

@Grum can you advise where is this part stored on the bike?  Is it usually in the tool kit?  Or is there a dedicated location to 'clip' it in elsewhere?  

There's a dedicated little spot that it goes in under the seat, I believe on the left side.  Held in by something akin to very large o-ring rubber band typ thing.  Check your bike. . . .might still be there!!

Dammit.  I may have the same / similar issue.  After my long trip last May, the VFR has mostly been sitting in the garage.  I ran her up to temp about a month ago, and after shutting her off, noticed about a quarter size puddle of coolant on the right side of the bike....guess it's time to dig back into the throttle body area again.  After dealing with my injector issues last year, I'm not really looking forward to that.  I guess should have replaced all the coolant and vacuum hoses when I was in there last year. 

Well . . .I have good news and bad news.

The good news is that everything that I did made the bike run PERFECTLY for the duration of my trip.  Put about 1300 miles on her over 5 days.  Saw some beautiful scenery and spent some time with some really good quality people.

The bad news is. . . . .

I realize that I really haven't been riding my bike enough!!!!!!!!  In all seriousness, there are definitely a few things that need some further consideration.  The ride down to NC (490.1 miles in about 8 hours) made me realized that the stock seat, the stock bars, and the stock screen are not ideally suited for my height / weight / riding style.  I'll be considering helibars, a Sergant (or other) seat, and some sort of modification to the windscreen (either taller or with a laminar lip).  

The motor ran great.  I did happen to pick up a stainless steel screw in my rear tire, which required a plug on the third day of riding, but that was the only minor incident.

Thanks again to all for reading and providing input.  I'll try to post up a few pics of the ride within the next week (I'm out of town again already for some work travel, otherwise I'd do it now!!)

Rob - you got it.  That appears to have been the issue.  I DEFINITELY had an injector that was leaking.  However, I also replaced the Fuel Pressure Regulator as part of this process.  I don't *think* that it was the point of failure, but for the price, it was simple and easy to replace.  

CandyRed - definitely. . . .me too!!

BR -- road testing went well.  I believe that there must have been some remaining fuel in the exhaust system, because she produced some smoke for about 10 miles or so before getting fully warmed up / burning off all the remaining fuel in the exhaust.  That being said, everything appears to be operating within specs now, and all seems well.  I am preparing for a significant road trip that is starting this Wednesday -- leaving DC, headed up to the Blue Ridge, and then headed southwest to meet up with some friends in western NC.  Will be a 5 day trip, so that will be the true test!!

She LIVES!!!  Re-installed the three serviced and one new injector.  Drained out over 10 quarts of mostly gasoline - oil, replaced with new along with a new filter.  Started, ran for 5 minutes, turned off, drained and replace oil.  Repeated two more times.  She is now running properly, no smoke, not blowing gasoline through the exhaust, and no fuel in the oil.  I'm relieved!!  Going to put all the fairings back on this afternoon and take her out for a ride.  Hopefully, all will be well.

The neutral switch was also replaced with new. . . .seems like the old one had just worn out at exactly the same time as this injector issue raising it's ugly head.  Weird, but true.  

I'll share another update after a couple of test rides.  

Sticking with it is what I do. . . .I'm way too stubborn to quit!!  And it all paid off. :)

New injector finally shipped from Partzilla. Should have it by Friday. Will see if I can get all this back together sometime over the weekend and update you all again. . . .keep your fingers crossed!!

Well, Ron Ayers let me know yesterday that the injector was back ordered through them until at least April 20th. I cancelled that order and placed a new one with Partzilla. It's supposed to ship on Monday. . . .we'll see. Seems like it always takes forever to get the last little thing that you need to wrap up a project, doesn't it??!?!?!?!?

I think that I've also determined that the trouble with starting was that the cylinder(s) were actually full or nearly full of gasoline, and it was as if the motor was vapor locked. The starter couldn't compress the liquid gasoline, and therefore couldn't turn over the motor. That's why after letting it sit for a week or so and all the fuel had leaked down past the rings, she would start fairly easily. Anyway, have to wait another week to get the new injector, and will then install everything and see how she does. . . .fingers crossed!!

CandyRedRC46: Already ordered a new injector from Ron Ayers last night. Figure best to start off with one that's known to be good. Even if the new one flows a bit more or less than the other three, shouldn't be that noticeable.

Hey guys -- was out of town for Easter weekend.

Got an interesting update though. Sent off the injectors to Precision Auto Injectors in FL. They did a great job -- I mailed the injectors to them last Tuesday and they were waiting for me when I got home yesterday. 4 day turn around, INCLUDING shipping!!

So to the news. . . .the injector that was in the #1 cylinder failed the leak down test both before and after cleaning, even after an overnight cleaning. All others tested good. Apparently, Honda does a pretty good job with their injectors according to Precision Auto Injectors:

"Over 25 seconds they flowed

Pre-cleaning

#1 110cc

#2 113cc

#3 108cc

#4 110cc

Post cleaning

#1 113cc

#2 113cc

#3 113cc

#4 113cc

For flow rate purposes that would be 270cc/minute @ 43.5 psi

One of the tightest spreads I've seen on a factory sets. Rarely do sets flow exactly dead on amongst each other."

So, I'll order a new fuel injector from Ron Ayers tonight and hope that it arrives quickly. . . .while I'm waiting, I'll go ahead and install the new FPR that I ordered, change out all the 'gassy' oil, and hope for the best when I install all the refurbished as well as the new injector.

And here are the photos that PAI sent me of the spray pattern and flow rates, post cleaning:

Note that the markings on the volume test are not even all the way across. . . .the two center cylinders have lower markings, but EXACTLY the same volume. Just wish that the #1 injector had stopped leaking after cleaning.

Oh well. :)

Just in case anyone is going to remove and send off their injectors, I'd highly recommend PAI. They did a great job, and were VERY fast. Their prices have apparently increased over the years -- they now charge $20 per injector. But if an injector fails testing post-cleaning, the charge is waived!! So, I ended up paying $60 to have them all serviced, and to get the diagnosis of the leak on the #1 injector. No return shipping either!! Pretty great service.

Hey BLS -- I've decided to just bite the bullet. Thanks to CandyRedRC46 up there, I have removed all of the injectors and will be sending them out for servicing to the place he recommended this week. No need to keep chasing this issue -- would rather be sure that all my injectors are good. I'm also replacing the fuel pressure regulator, and ordered a new neutral sensor and will see if that ends up needing replacing after I get the issues worked out with the bike actually running and not POURING gasoline into my oil.

Also ordered three new filters and three gallons of oil -- will be changing the oil before I even attempt another start after the serviced injectors and new FPR are installed. I'll give you guys an update later in the week if all the parts arrive and I get around to installing everything before our Easter vacation at the beach. Will probably need another oil and filter change after running her a bit again, just to ensure that I have all (or the vast majority) of the gasoline out of the bottom end of the motor.

As everyone can probably tell, I haven't been riding all that much lately (for like 4 years), so this has been really a back burner project. Now that I'm up to my elbows in it, I remember how much I actually enjoy working on the bike. . . .as long as I can find a solution in a reasonable amount of time and get her running properly again. Otherwise, it just turns into frustration!!!!

Thanks for all the help, guys.

-Nate

I've had the wiring harness recall done. Even so, I checked all the connectors, including the infamous blue connector. All my grounds look good, as far as I can tell.

Well, I don't have a pressure gauge, so I'll just replace it. It's less than $50, so worth it anyway, since these appear to have problems occasionally. And since the bike starts, and runs fairly reasonably initially, I don't think that this is an issue where fuel is leaking down into the bottom end with the motor off. Wish that I had checked the oil before running, but will be doing that next time. . . .

How the hell do I test to see if I have an injector stuck open????

That's a thought Knight.

Anyone think that all the fuel in my oil could have interfered with the neutral switch? I'm getting continuity in the wiring all the way from the neutral switch connector to the associated pin on the connector at the back of the instrument panel. . . .so not sure why the light isn't coming on. I get resistance from the switch and OL when in gear. . . .but the resistance is exceedingly low. . . .

All injectors pass OHM test, and are within range. All positive legs of connectors have similar voltage with key in the 'on' position.

Pulled the vacuum hose on the FPR, and there's no fuel in there.

However, I am thinking that it must be the FPR. When I look down through the butterfly valves into where the valve seats are, I can see pools of fuel on the top of each of the cylinders. Since it's highly unlikely that there would be a problem with ALL of the injectors, I am thinking that it MUST be the FPR. Too much pressure = too much fuel in the cylinders, drowning the engine, and forcing unspent fuel past the piston rings and into the bottom end of the motor.

So, I think I'm going to order a new FPR and go from there.

Anyone think that there's a need for me to remove the throttle body for anything? If I was going to do it, now would be the time . . .

Still can't diagnose why my neutral switch isn't working.

I haven't tested the injectors yet. Was hoping for a simple electrical fix. Guess it's back out to OHM out the injectors and to test voltage on the wiring. If all the injectors OHM out, seems like bench testing them is a bit more challenging. Haven't found anything online that indicates an easy way to test them for spray pattern just yet. . . .

As for the FPR, any way to test that??? Or is this just one of those things that's a 'replace and hope for the best?'

UPDATE: so finally got around to starting to go through the electrical system. Checked every connector that I could find / reach. Disconnected, cleaned, and reconnected all ground points to the frame. Didn't find anything out of the ordinary. Took apart the air cleaner down to the fuel rails just to see if there was any damage to the wiring harness feeding the injectors. All looked good. Reconnected everything, installed the tank and battery, and turner her on. Started fairly easily, although, my neutral switch light still doesn't appear to be working. Then after about 30 seconds, the white smoke starts appearing, and she ends up stalling out. Right before she stalled, I noticed a lot of swirling in the oil level window. Held a light to it and it looked suspicious.

After the bike stalled out, I unscrewed the oil filler, and I HAVE GASOLINE IN MY OIL. I'm not talking about a little gas. . . .I'm talking about TONS of gasoline in the oil.

Any suggestions?? I'm thinking that I must have a bad / stuck injector, AND bad rings or scored piston walls to allow that much fuel into the oil.

What the hell is going on here?? Need some help guys.

:(

Thanks,

Nate

Ok. . . .so how do I diagnose a shorted PCM, and how to I rectify it?? And do I still need to pull the injector and test it?? Probably a good idea, I suppose . . .

Tell me about it.

Connections have been checked, and will be re-checked. I am also going to put direct battery voltage to the starter motor to check operation. If it DOES work, then I may have an issue with a switch or relay elsewhere. . .

Yes. Coil on #3 cylinder was replaced. But still blowing raw fuel out the exhaust when I get it to run. It DOES appear that all cylinders were firing though (all headers were hot).

I just cant figure what caused this cascade of events. . . loosing the neutral light is really throwing me for a loop. Not sure why that would happen unless the issue were electrical in nature . . . .damn gremlins.