sa1713

I'm checking with the EBD to see if the cams can be worked as well.

On another note regarding the PC V for my 98 non Cali model. Coderighter installed a PC V on his 6th gen and also has the Autotune. He has mapped by gear/speed, temp, and has a vacuum switch for turning the Autotune off/on during accel and decel.

We've discovered that the 5th gen wire harness matches along years so I can tap into it for the map by gear/speed and engine temp without issue. The vacuum switch was another story. Coderighter removed his EVAP canister and solenoid and used the vacuum hose to tap into the four vacuum hoses connected to the injectors. On my bike, no such thing, the four hoses die at the airbox and never join each other. So, I'll find a 4 into 1 connector, add a length of hose and drop a vacuum switch onto that. This will solve my vacuum source hunt.

Many thanks to Coderighter for diagnosing my situation.

More as I get it.

Larry,

Thank you for the air box post. Very educational.

With the porting, polishing and dome work, along with the larger diameter header (38mm v OEM 36mm), do you think a larger intake would be beneficial?

Coderighter and I have PM'd each other to death regarding retro fitting the PC V to the non evap canister model years. Speed and temp mapping is a snap. What I need to do is find a vacuum source to run a switch from in order to turn the Autotune off/on based upon accel/decel.

Keep chiming in please. All info is very welcomed.

More as I get it.

PC V with Autotune arrived this week. I've looked at the installation instructions and they look straight forward. Coderighter is digging into some more techical aspects but we believe that the map by speed/gear and temp as well as the vacuum shut off will be the same for the 5th gen as his 6th.

I have a spare 5th gen wire harness that I'm using to locate all of the connections. If they are actually located where I think I've found them then it won't be too hard to install.

And if all this is not enough, I'm almost finished with the underseat exhaust project. I installed the AL tray on a spare subframe and i'll install that sometime this weekend.

More as I get it.

How about one of these:

I've read that a ram-air system and bigger airbox can add up to 10% power increase at the top end, plus more torque and better throttle response lower in the rev-range.

That's what I'm talking about :goofy:

So after a little digging, I'm thinking something like this

With a length of this to connect to the air box

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Someone some where mentioned about a smooth bore air path. Not sure how the flex tube would affect that.

More as I get it.

It is where you add material to the dome thus decreasing the expansion chamber and increasing the pressure/compression.

New update. Air filter/intake

I spoke with the EBD and we discussed air intake and filters.

I told him about the snorkle routing and he suggested that if the intake could be placed in an area outside of the frame and into an area of air flow, it would be a great modification. He said an increase of just a half pound (.226k for our metric pals) of pressure would be very helpful. He asked that the inlet be angled so that the air would be scooped into the snorkle and up the pressure. He said that FI engines like to have more air.

He commented about naked bikes and fronts ends without fenders. Naked bikes and fenderless bikes have little to no air flow over the front wheel and towards the engine.

We then discussed air filter elements. He said K&N are fine filters and they have a new material which allows even more air to flow within the same filtered area. I asked about BMC and he said they are knock off K&N. I asked him about RC45 filters as they have about the area of Texas in filter area. He said those work well too. Bottom line for him is this: Have the largest filter area possible that won't clog too quickly and the engine won't loose power as the filter tires. Pretty simple but I've always thought that the area was directly related to engine design and must have the specifically designed filter. Not so.

Regarding the PC V I've got on the way, I'm investigating the interface for the vacuum switch. I'm going to pose the question to DJ regarding tapping into the MAP sensor and using those signals to turn the Autotune off and on based upon load. I don't know if it will work out but just another theory.

More as I get it.

Okay, a small update.

No new news from the EBD. I hope to speak with him this weekend. One main topic will be air intake with filter size and snorkle location. Maybe a better directed snorkle with a larger tube may be in order.

On another note, I've sent a new set of headers off to Indy Powder Coating for an internal ceramic coating. They state/show a 40% decrease in heat transfer just by coating the inside of the pipes. I should have those back within about 2 weeks.

I contacted FUEL MOTO USA and ordered a PCV with autotune for $490 shipped. A couple of listers here recommended them. They are going to load a map with my mods and ship it out. They are also going to do some more research for me regarding the map by gear and temp features as well as the vacuum switch option. I've read all of the other posts and just want to get it dialed in.

In about 3 weeks I'm dropping my bike off at a custom pipe shop for an up pipe for my underseat project.

I'm going to install the PCV on the current engine with the header/can setup and get it dialed in. When the new engine arrives, I'll be better prepared for that install.

Any and all suggestions regarding the PCV or engine swap are welcome.

More as I get it.

ps get some pics in here before I have to Ban you!

Nothing like a bit of peer pressure....

Here is the donor. Nothing special except it is a 49 state'r and is pretty clean. Might have a pilot assisted touch down on the clutch side but nothing that can't be worked.

Engine Builder Dude (EBD) installed a Factory Pro Shift Star EVO kit on Wednesday. He had a bunch of comments about OEM shift linkage (all crappy) but agreed that this kit is a great addition.

While he was there, he took a look at the water pump. Once opened, he saw he could improve it by moving the impellors closer together, thus being more efficient and able to push more water through the system. He's also going to inspect the complete plumbing system to see if any other improvements can be made (ie with 2 side mount rads, series v. parallel).

More as I get it.

A couple of weeks ago a lister posed an interesting idea: What could be done to an engine?

I posted in that thread but received much feedback asking to start a new thread. So, here it is.

I myself am smack dab in the middle of such an engine project. About 3 years ago my brother dropped of an XT500 single cyl 4 stroke engine off at an engine dude's shop in Cali. They went round and round on the best app for the motor and finally came to the conclusion that bigger is not always better. My brother had the elusive big BIG bore kit and all the trimmings. The builder advised him against it as the torque was sooo much that it would twist the engine right out of its mounts. Instead they settled on a bunch of efficiency mods including Porsche tappits, Carrillo rod/Wisco piston, port/polish, and then he welded the head. In all the mods will produce 77hp up from OEM of 53.

So enough with that story. But listening to him describe his experience got me thinking. What would an efficiency job produce out of a 5th gen motor? So I was able to snag a very low miliage motor from a wreck and drop it off to him.

In my initial conversation with him we kicked some ideas around, all of them centering on efficiency/rotational weight and such. I told him all ideas were in play including Carrillo/JE combos, crank work, and anything that would reduce the weight and send the efficiency out the back. He said he'd take a look and let me know the best course of action.

During this conversation I discovered he worked in Europe during the late 80's as a builder/tuner on race RC30's. He also worked for MegaCycle Cams and then went on to tell me about the horror stories of the early Honda V4 cams he would have to fix. He confirmed what has been discussed here on VFRD about Honda's problems with those cams wearing out. He fixed too many to count, but knew that their failure was due to poor mfg/materials, not as much oiling.

Well, I'm about to jump out of my shorts after he revealed that info and I felt much better about the upcoming process.

About 4 weeks ago we spoke again and he handed me some mixed news. As far as my big plan to swap pistons/rods and work the crank, not so fast. He said that Honda already did all that work for us and that he could install the new bits, but for the money, no one would even notice the difference between stock and aftermarket. Boy was I surprised to hear that. I was expecting a "yeah, I did that and here it is." He said Honda built it very well.

He described the motor as running very rich as there was quite a bit of carbon build up. He also said that 1 of the 4 cams was already hosed. No other parts showed any wear. He chalked the wear up to a bad part(he took pics so when I get them, you'll all get them). All the other cams were perfect. He did say that the motor did not have many miles on it which is what I know to be about 3-4k miles.

So, he is headlong into porting/polishing and yes, welding the head shut increasing the compression. He may coat the cams for longevity. He commented that Honda loves to F up the ports by angling them off center which makes for a less efficient exit and a bit more difficult to port. No big deal to do, just an observation. He understand why they do it that way but knows it is not the best for efficiency.

I've told him about the PC V. He is very interested in the PC V and how it can maximize performance.

We talked about the oil pump and he said it was fine, but he did make an intersting remark about the cooler. He said that the cooler is installed upside down. Since it is not under great pressure and the oil flows into it from the bottom, the top row(s) are useless. He said that most mfg'rs do this and he does not know why. So I looked at my 86 project and that cooler feeds from the top, but subsequent gens feed from the bottom.

I have the complete plumbing from a 6th gen ready for mod onto this motor and I will invert the cooler so that the oil feeds from the top, drops down and uses all of the rows. He thought this to be a good improvement and actually uses the cooler for what it was designed to do.

Well, more as I get it along with pics. I expect the motor to be finished within the next month or two and then I'll have it shipped back to me. By then I should have all of the installation questions for the PC V worked out and oil cooler mod completed.

Yes, pictures as I get them.

Thanks for the great info provided by CR and JES regarding the ECT and VSS sensors for gear mapping with the auto tune.

I do not have an evap can so CR, do you have a suggestion as to where I could tie into and keep the auto tune from actuating during warm up?

I've traced the wires for the VSS(pink) but don't have the wire color for the ECT. The VSS runs into the 10 pin connector (white?) and ECT 10 pin (blue) with both of these (white/blue) terminating into the back of the instrument panel. Is it best to tap into those wires at just prior to their connectors (blue/white)? Or is there a better location?

I have a spare 98 harness that I'm working all this through with so when I do get my PCV, it will hopefully go smoothly.

4. If you bike is '06 or newer, did you setup for map-by-gear?

Any chance I could take advantage of the map by gear for my 5th gen?

Jim

Yes, It's just that '06 and newer is map by gear from the factory so to have any Power Commander to work correctly, it needs to be map by gear also.

PCV map by gear is very useful to richen up things in the lower gears to make it run better and still have a fuel efficient (leaner) 5th-6th gear cruise. You could do that regardless of year.

Disclaimer: I've been told a PCV will work on a 5th gen, but never tried it myself.

Thank you as that is what I thought, that map by gear would also work on a 5th gen. That sure opens a great deal of options for us.

I've confirmed (thanks JES_VFR) that the PCV will work on the 5th gen (FUELMOTOUSA dot COM) as there are appications set up for the 00-09. I crossed the parts list and the sub wire harness the PCV plugs into is used on the 98-01. I believe the "only" reason Fuelmoto does not have apps for the 98-99 is because those do not use O2 sensors. The PCV will need a bung drilled into the header for it to get the most out of it.

4. If you bike is '06 or newer, did you setup for map-by-gear?

Any chance I could take advantage of the map by gear for my 5th gen?

Jim

Right now busy with my (other) other project, getting my new house done. here and there I get to peek under the cover and see if any elves started putting the bike together for me...

Trying to get the front brakes buttoned up actually, I need 1000R brackets to mount my calipers. Once that's done, I might just roll it off the lift and let it soak up a little sun before the cold weather sets in.

Better hurry, I hear Honda is about to unveil something new........ Wouldn't want your thunder stolen. :biggrin:

Matt,

Smooookkkinnnnggg good looking!

You snagged a sweet header. You still might be able to use the center stand, it looks as though the outlet does not have a distinct bend outward.

That single nut sure looks sweet! It is cool that you were able to use the Triumph rear end with almost no mod to bolt on. That is something that the 3rd/4th gen guys certainly can obtain.

You should be able to use any aftermarket wheel that would bolt onto the Triumph. What a nice selection to choose from.

I'm sad I was unable to pull it off without major modification. :biggrin:

Enjoy.

Also I've got another mod sitting in the back of my garage that may or may not work... more on this later :biggrin:

I hope it does as that will uncork a bunch of happy 3rd/4th gen folks!

Awsome build. Really neat to see the progress.

I emailed them requesting information on a 17" 5.5 wheel and I guess Rick got the response we're looking for. Time to start saving some pennies.....

Hello. My name is Jim and up until about 1 hour ago I was in EDD (electrical dysfunction denial).

You see, I thought I was ahead of the electrical curve by adding a digital volt meter stashed neatly into the mirror. I thought that since I'd be able to monitor the bike's system, I'd be able to ride worry free until I decided to get off.

Well, you know the rest. Constant focus on the mirror led to an obsession with how well, or in my case, when will the system fail.

So, after almost 3 years of watching my mirror give me readings of 13.4 at speed and a roubust 12.9 while doing most everything else, and a very disappointing 13.1 above 5k, and when I revd it, the volts would most times if not the vast majority of the time drop, I decided to do some digging into the board.

I first swapped an OEM RR which showed the same output. I recently swapped the battery only to obtain about the same v figures as well. I did all of the electrical diag test minus the load tests. All that checked out.

I didn't want to crack open the stator cover only to be reassured. So, I read 007's and Chris' write up on the R1 swap.

Well, swap is complete and I'm in 14.4/14.6 heaven. I only did the wire upgrade to the RR for now. I just wanted somequick feedback. I'll add the ground-to-battery-to-frame next.

I touched the three phase wires coming from the stator which were nice an hot. I touched the RR harness and it showed no heat. The R1 RR was not even warm. I could not do that with the OEM unit.

For specs here they are:

1st observed low volts at about 6k miles, I now have about 11k (I know, get out there);

OEM unit has "SH579A-11" and "7.D" in white;

I neither had any volt spikes nor any on road failure;

All connectors/wires are fine with no signs of heat stress;

R1 RR and associated connectors - about $35

I'm stoked to belong to the VFRD community that has contributors who share their experience, troubleshoot, and publish fixes.

Thank you for all your input and a big :thumbsup: to 007 and Chris.

Jim

Cpn has made contact with a local fabricator and he is trying to see if they can be made out of stainless.

Also to be considered is the outlet diameter. Rob's Devil cans measured approximately 1 5/8" and the Wolf's are at 2".

I'm checking into using dual Laser Xtreme cans for the underseat application. I'm working on the overall dimensions to pass on to Cpn'.

The Wolf's pipes (2 piece) are chromed. Cpn is working on a single pipe application. One other consideration is the diameter of the inlet at the collector. I like Staintunes' application and I'm hoping Cpn is able to match that.

Cpn has been extremely thoughtful and considerate for those of us itching to grab a set. :thumbsup:

Hopefully after the holidays have settled down we will be able to inundate Cpn with mail.....

Jim

Don't you mean that the valves mounted to the rods are the rebound valves?

Cheers

Jan

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's correct. The compression will sit at the bottom of the fork with the rebound attached to the rod itself. I'd be concerned about the shims from the F3 not matching the need of the VFR.

Jim

And how about us poor people, who don't have RaceTech gold valves. Do we use the F3 or the VFR compression valve?

I managed to pick up a slightly bent set of F3 forks from eBay recently, and have just ordered stiffer springs from Wirth in Germany. I guess the adjustment in the rebound valve will be enough to handle the stiffer spring, but how about compression. The valves seem identical, but which will fit the weight of the bike best?

I'm guessing the VFR valve, but there seems to be some pretty smart people around here :goofy:

Jan Strandgaard

Denmark, Europe

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Welcome Jan.

I did the F3 swap w/Race Tech valves on my 5th gen and I know that the F3's and VFR's are interchangeable. You can install the VFR's compression valves on the F3's rods, but the F3's rebound valve stack may not be just right for the VFR. Save up a little bit and get the whole system done. You already got some of the hardest parts, the fork caps/rods/pistons.

Jim

Happy New Year to all.  I searched available posts and could not find an answer for it, sorry to bother all with this newbie question.  

A few months ago I picked up an all stock 98 with 4k.  I've  changed oil/coolant/hydraulics and all this talk about forks has me wondering.  

Should I be concerned about the original oil enough to flush it?  I could not find any info in the shop manual. Is there a shelf-life or is it rather a function of miles/use?  If it needs to be changed, should I jump into the F3/gold upgrade HS did?

I'm still getting used to the machine, and have not noticed any unusual bounce/push.

Any and all suggestions are appreciated.

Jim