zRoYz

When removing your motor, do NOT remove your centrestand from the stand bracked unless you REALLY need to. Those fecking bolts are thread-locked in there TIGHT and I snapped the head off one from the new bike. I don't think this bitch is even Ezy-out capable!

Luckily all these parts are interchangeable so I can keep the stand bracket from the old bike and NOT remove the centrestand from it. Geeez.

lol I found out the same thing when removing my center stand to powder coat & also snapped a bolt, the problem is it was so tight ezy outs didn't work so had to end up drilling the bolt out. The problem with that is the metal bolt when snapped it's almost imposable to drill out exactly centered so you end up taking some alloy as well. Helli coils not real good due to the strength you need with a deep thread & my problem was going up to even a 12mm bolt I wasn't happy with thread so went to 1/2 inch UNF for just that bit extra. Lucky the center stand bush can be drilled out to 13mm without problem.

Note: you can also be caught out if you don't relies the RHS bolt is a left hand thread.

The manual say's remove throttle bodies, but because your going to remove main frame spar by lifting upwards there would be no need all you need to make sure of is there are no hoses or wiring that passes through any part of frame your lifting away that will stop that procedure. If radiator hose that go to wax unit do then removing ends at radiator would be enough.

I would also be changing the complete throttle body setup to try it's only disconnect 4 plugs, throttle cables (you don't need to reconnect them to test, just use your hand) & 4 clamps on the lower boots. I know you installed 06 injectors on your 02 but looking at your video the throttle bodies installed are extremely dirty. It would just be nice for you to know if there is a problem with your 02 motor which I personally don't think there is. The only real mechanical fault would be valve clearances way out which doesn't really happen on a VFR or you cam chains have stretched so much it's effecting the timing or the valves aren't seating well due to carbon build up. But you would think those sort of faults will effect things across the rev range, not just at idle which makes me believe it is something to do with the EFI system but not the ECU. I would also say maybe bad fuel but you said it has been happening for a while so would be more than one tank of fuel.

My Mistake the spare key I have doesn't have chip epoxied you can remove it.

It is much easier to remove chip the key where the honda logo is on one side is a removable panel that is just glued on, once you remove that with a small screw driver the chip is just pushed in a slot you can remove it. Then when finished you can put chip back in & re glue panel on key, that seems easier than jump wiring the ignition.

To do a new barrel you would also need to temp remove one chip from a key so you can use that barrel with the system to switch bike power & have original ECU linked HISS key next to transponder, then once in program registry mode you can replace the chip & move the original key away from transponder.

THE key is linked to ECU which stores the key data, the key data doesn't change.

I can't find concrete proof but from what I have read your only allowed 4 keys per ECU but don't know if that's in total which means you have 2 programed from factory & your allowed only 2 more, or it means 4 programed at any one time. So if you try to program another barrel your going to use the spare 2 places & you mightn't be able to program anymore. You would be better off buying another key so you at least have 1 spare spot just in case you lose a key later, I just don't know if the 4 in total means programed keys for life of ECU & I'm not willing to test it as I have 1 spare spot left if that is the case.

I haven't ever needed to remove motor but looking at procedure I'm sure there are short cuts you can take for example the motor is part of swing arm pivot so if you remove shock & support motor with enough blocks you can remove main frame with front end up & away so motor with swing arm left on ground. You would still need to remove items to make job easy that may foul but looking at bike the main frame if motor supported will just lift off the trick would be making sure it is supported. Radiators are a single bolt with some hose clamps so no big deal there & you would have air box off to disconnect throttle cables. So more or less you would transfer the motor & swing arm ass across, have a good look at the bike you bought I'm sure it would work.

You would normally remove swing arm from motor because you want to split the cases & work on motor you don't you mainly just want to swap assemblies, you still would need to drain brake fluid & all fluids except oil but I'm sure you would replace that to start a service history.

If you need a push on what to do, this is what I would do

Firstly the reasoning behind my decision, to register the reparable write off your up for est extra $1K & doing so will give you a later model bike registered but in reality due to being listed on WOR (Australian write off registry) the resale will be no more than your 02 in good working order. Even to register the later model you have to remove allot of parts from the 02 & the biggest pain is the exhaust so in really there isn't really extra work to just do the motor transplant except some frame bolts. This also has the bonus of your 02 motor being out on the floor to inspect & play with (big bore kit maybe). The other bonus is when your finished you can ride the bike without major delay jumping through hoops & you can hold off updating engine number until you decide what you might do with the 02 motor, so zero cost, zero having to deal with boffins at the registry.

So really to remove all the extra's & front sub frame will take longer than the motor swap & you also save $1K, get to ride when finished legally & don't have to jump through boffin hoops. Sort of makes the dission itself in my book MOTOR SWAP

BUT before I bothered with motor swap I would try the new electrics in 02 as might just cure the problem as you do want to pin point what the problem is don't you.

I know US models don't have HISS but Australian, UK. etc models do & because I only had one key & needed a spare just in case this is what I did (just so people know if you lose a HISS key & don't have a spare the only fix is buy complete ECU, key, barrel from Honda unless you kept the silver tag that came with new bike which has a serial number, that is only number Honda can do a replacement key with if all original keys lost & that key has to come from factory).

I can't take credit for this procedure as was found doing search & asking questions but the info came from other models with HISS & couldn't find anything VFR specific so I'm writing this because was done on my 04 VFR800 without a problem. My local Honda dealer charges $50AU to program a key & $58AU for blank key so that is $108 total, It cost me all up $25.45.

1. Buy a blank HISS key, these are different from a normal key only due to chip that is located in plastic part but they look the same as a none HISS key, I found them on Ebay for $25USD delivered (there normally over $50 here in Australia)

2. Take your new key blank with your existing key & have it cut to work (before you bother to program make sure the new key when cut works in all locks because there are a limited number of keys your allowed to program per bike)

3. Go to an electronics store & buy a 1W 100R Carbon Film 5% Resistor now this is where I went ghetto because you can bother to make the special Honda lead which if your able to buy costs over $100 buying clips & plugs & do soldering but I couldn't be bothered because I was only going to use this lead once so I had electronic jumper leads which are simply the alligator clips each end of a wire & you want the small alligator clip type due to needing to get inside bike plug limited space. The good thing about buying these leads is you can place them in your tool kit & use for other things when needed.

4. VFR800 plug used is Ignition Pulse Generator (red plug RHS bike located same place the fuel injection large grey plugs are positioned), this plug has only two wires the solid yellow is your positive + & the other duel color is your negative - feed.

VTEC IPGP Ignition Pulse Generator plug (red) location

5. Unplug the red plug & the male part of plug that feeds back to the ECU is what you need to connect too so using you small alligator clips so you can get to terminals in plug clip them on making shore you don't have them touching each other (the small test alligator leads have plastic covers to shield them or you can just strip some of the plastic shielding off the wire if you want after the plug if you can't get what you have into the red plug).

6. Yellow wire from red plug you use other end of alligator lead & clip on your 1W 100R resistor & then get another lead & connect to other side of resistor (remember I did say ghetto lead) that leaves you with an alligator clip to connect to your battery positive terminal +

7. The other wire you connect to the negative terminal on battery -

8. Turn the ignition key to ON using your original key. The immobilizer indicator (HISS) light should come on and stay on (if it starts flashing after 10 seconds there is a fault in your system).

9. Now disconnect the positive + battery connector for 5 seconds before reattaching it to the battery terminal. The indicator should now come on for 2 seconds then begin to flash repeatedly four times. This indicates the system is now in registration mode. At this point all previous keys except the one in the ignition have cleared or cancelled from the ECU memory, so if you have any extra spares they will need to be re-registered.

10. Turn the ignition to OFF and remove the original HISS key, put it a couple of meters away from the bike so it doesn't interfere with the transponder in the new key.

11. Insert the new key and the ignition to ON. The immobiliser indicator light should come on for 4 seconds then begin to flash repeatedly four times. This indicates the system has registered the new key. Success!

12. If you have any extra keys you want to register, repeat step 10-11. Don't put the original key you started the process with in as its already registered.

13. Once you have registered your spare keys, turn the ignition to OFF, remove the ghetto lead and reconnect your red plug sensor.

14. Now check all your keys start your bike.

NOTE: make sure with the ghetto lead you don't short out any connection to bike frame, if your clumsy rap it all in electrical tape & if your fussy make a lead with solder connections & shrink sleeve.

The only bad thing about buying a repairable write off & registering is it will always be listed on WOR (Australia) as a repairable write off. I'm not up on Melb rules but before you couldn't fix them in NSW you had to have an extra inspection that cost $420 + blue slip (you can't register repairable write off in NSW anymore without special approval after you buy & fix bike which isn't guaranteed so you take the risk of blowing your money). If you want to save money in the short term the best option is do a motor swap.

I would put money on your problem not being mechanically related which is probably the essayist to diagnose, I would say you have an EFI problem but what is causing it can be a mine field to diagnose. When you get wreck I would firstly transfer ecu, wiring harness & sensors to your 02 just to see if it fixes the problem then if it does you can remove one component at a time until fault returns & bingo that's your problem & you can then sell off an operational bike.

Note: I would have changed plugs even if they look good just to be sure as I have has plugs that looked good that were faulty & changing them fixed the problem, if it doesn't fix the problem there not going to go to waste just shelve them till needed in future.

I'm not amazed with sebs work because it is always quality, the TLR guys also did that modification as friend has one on his TLR, I also like the heat paint crinkle finish

Veefer800Canuck how do you keep your bike so clean, I have spent weeks just trying to get grit from parts of motor while I'm waiting parts & compared to yours mine is ghetto.

I know they even buy bikes at the Sydney auction & ship them to Melb so average mark up $1000-$1500.

Scratch that. Just found this wrecked 2006 model 70 kilometres away.

Let's see. I'm gonna need new clutch plates soon ($200) new front disks ($800)....that's a thousand dollars effectively off the purchase price right there.

I think I'm just gonna do it.

Adrenalin who is selling that bike get there stock from auctions, if your looking to go that route go to some auctions like Manheimfowles (Australia) they even have auctions online, as an example a stolen reclaimed VFR800 04 that only had a few scratches & barrel destroyed went for $2200.

Also if you don't go that route & need parts for your bike I have a set of oem rotors forsale :-)

I'm sure you have it correct but check the spark plug wiring is going to correct plug, easy test is temp of each header. I say this because I once mixed up the front plugs & bike would run & even idle on 2 rear cylinders but idle when bike started to warm up would rise & fall & motor would cut out now & then. Motor still seemed to rev ok with throttle, was going to start looking at many things & just happened to do a header temp test & bingo front 2 cold compared to rear. Its a very easy mistake to make & the motor can run unloaded surprisingly well on 2 cylinders.

Bit late I know & yes removing plastic makes it easy but that valve you can just remove the 2 bolts & bend it up for more room, I don't have that problem as there is none of it on my bike as no link brakes due to CBR1000RR front end install, I don't even have that steel bkt the valves mount on in the way which leaves more room for the Penske shock remote compression line.

When bike was at 3000rpm was your pc loaded with a map? during warm up they normally rev to 2500rpm due to the wax unit so 500rpm out isn't much & might even be normal for the 06> but as I have an 04 can't answer that.

The rear harness you don't need to remove anything but the seat, battery cover & duct tail, the harness feeds from LHS where battery is & with duct tail removed there is room it just looks like there isn't due to the link brake proportional valve is there.

Question, if you have of used UK harness & ECU which has hiss as well would you have same problems?

Hey this is meant to be my mod thread - stop hijacking it, you lot!!

opps

The last few posts totally confuse me from what I understand, I'm not an EFI expert so all my knowledge is from just reading & my understanding could be wrong but most VFR's run rich not lean in most cases from factory. The reason for this is safety with the factory maps because running a motor lean tends to wear parts faster to the point too lean & your melting components. There is also the 02 sensor which is designed to adjust the mixture but it also again from my understanding keep the mixture fairly rich due to the cat to help keep it cool which is programmed into the factory ECU. I have mentioned this a few times but most of the surging problems people experience is due to the cat which off throttle without major pressure to force gases past it the 02 sensor reads very low 02 content so rich-ens the mixture also is done to keep cat cool by default. With unburnt fuel & the backing up of gases this is what creates the surging feel until there is enough pressure to clear the backed up gases before the cat.

Doesn't matter what model your ECU is when you fit a pc it overrides the standard map by making adjustments to the standard map, when you have your bike tuned on the dyno with the lap link software which is the pc interface & tuning module it doesn't tune for max power or better fuel economy it tunes for best motor performance across the rev range which in turn makes the mixture rich or lean when needed. It makes your bike run smoother even with the cat because it tunes for it just like if you add different air filter or exhaust etc. I have never seen what the values are on the factory map because on the VFR from my knowledge there is noway to view them, the pc map only shows you changes it makes not what is already loading into factory ECU. The problem with the cat is over time it will start to become more of a restriction & effect fueling even more, I know of a few that have collapsed to the point it felt like you lost 50hp.

The very last mod to my vtec was the Motad headers & like most VFR's I had surging problems at times & had done every other so called mod to fix it before hand, the Motad headers should have been my first mod the difference they made to fueling, throttle response & power made every other mod pointless.

I have no problem being proven wrong because that's how you become enlightened so if there is an EFI expert (not a so called internet expert) that can shed light on the subject with facts I'm all ears.

I did read the first post with reasons why to change ECU, but honestly the only advantage I can see is the lower vtec cut in as faster processor & better maps loaded into ECU mean squat when you over ride them with a pc. I think your outcome will be zero change to what you have except for the earlier vtec cut in.

My 04 which is same as your 02 which had Motad headers, BMC filter, pair valves disconnected, flapper disconnected, 02 eliminators, pc with dyno tune never had any flat spots or surging etc, the vtec transition wasn't even noticeable except for the different induction note & the black lines it left around corners. Every now & then there would be a hiccup but all motors tend to do it depending on climate conditions & a 1000 other variables.

I would look at drilling a hole in that lower chain guard to feed the hose into for a clean look. Kirbster who has used a scottoiler on his 02 since new still has the original chain & sprockets with over 60K on his bike & there still isn't any real free play in links on rear sprocket so the self oilers do work a treat.

I saw a video of the VFR1200 being driven by a journalist at a japanese track way back at the initial release and he spun out the rear wheel...saved it, but still... I have a feeling 'if you don't know what your doing' the torque at the rear wheel will bite you in 1st or 2nd gear in this new VFR1200, so Honda played it safe. That's all they needed, all kinds of stories about it being a 'dangerous' bike. I think that is why is has been restricted...poor man's traction control.

+1 with the price point Honda already at with the VFR1200 in current form they probably didn't want to add more R&D cost to install a traction control system so the above statement for me rings very true "poor mans traction control". To think it was done because the drive train couldn't handle the torque in 1st & 2nd gear would mean there would be a potential for it to fail in any other gear which is crazy because in the end the available tyre grip is what will fail first. There is also the thought that maybe it was done for emissions & noise due to lower gears for a given speed the revs are higher, who really knows because your never going to get an official word from Honda. It is simply a strange thing to do to limit lower gears because some riders don't know how to use throttle control & maybe they only did it due to the target market as they don't do it to there full blown sportsbikes unless to abide by a particular countries regulations but that happens through all gears.

I applaud how there are people that always find solutions, I just would like a solution that means I can have the gear indicator still work 1st & 2nd now Honda have finally fitted something I always fit to my motorbikes.

Really nice bikes you've got there, zroyz. I plan on starting up a new thread any day now to cover the build-up of the 6th-gen kit. It's coming. It's definitely coming.

:goofy:

Thanks for reply toro, I'll keep a eye out & by the way your gen5 is a sight to be hold & I don't even like the look of them myself but would gladly own yours.

Thank you Veefer800Canuck will be keeping an eye on that thread :-)

Toro I know this has been asked to death but are you going to adapt the gen5 kit for the gen6 anytime soon. The reason I ask is I'm about over my mid life episode were I felt the need for one more sportsbike so sold my frankenviffer gen6 & bought a CBR1000RR 08 & in the very near future will be converting back to a more touring orientated bike. I don't like the K1300S as just feels cumbersome to me & the only other bike that interests me is the VFR1200 which isn't yet in Australia for test rides. Now if I don't like the VFR1200 my only option is to build another gen6 frankenviffer but then I'm hooked on the hp of the CBR1000RR & was one of the main reasons I sold my gen6 I just wanted a little more woot factor. I would need the supercharger kit for any gen6 rebuild because I simply don't like the gen5 ascetics.

So if your not going to do a direct kit for the gen6 how many parts of the gen5 kit will work on the gen6 as machining stuff to adapt kit or making new parts is a no brainer for me as I'm a toolmaker by trade & at the moment weighing up options.

I haven't posted a pic of the CBR on this site yet so:

CBR1000RR 08 Ohlins forks, WP shock, Akra full system, PCV, Pazzo, Gel seat, Woodcraft case sliders, braided lines, etc

This is the frankenviffer I miss but can build another (Ohlins forks from CBR will be used):

VFRdesktop.jpg