zRoYz

I find it strange you haven't been given correct info yet, the rhs front calliper is very different front the gen5 to the gen6 because the gen5 has that calliper linked to the link brake system & the gen6 calliper doesn't. The gen5 system uses one piston on rhs & lhs in link brake system when rear brake applied, the gen6 only uses one piston in the lhs calliper, that is why the rhs gen5 calliper you have has two ports.

You can use it on your gen6 as will bolt in place but you will only have two pistons not three working unless you link all the ports into the front brake stand alone brake line system which would be messy.

For future ref the gen5 & gen6 front brake that works solely off the front brake master cylinder is a separate system & isn't linked to the link brake system, on the gen5 it controls two pistons in each calliper front & gen6 in controls two pistons lhs calliper & all three rhs calliper. The link brake system on a gen5 when activated by rear brake lever uses one piston each calliper & only one piston lhs calliper gen6. The calliper mounted lhs master cylinder on both gens activates the rear calliper link brake piston.

GEN5

front brake only two pistons each calliper

link brake one piston each calliper (activated rear brake lever)

GEN6

front brake only two pistons lhs calliper & three pistons rhs caliper

link brake one piston lhs calliper (activated rear brake lever)

BOTH GENS

lhs calliper mounted master cylinder activates one piston rear calliper

Volume is probably the wrong word, when I used that term I was referring to the fluid movement needed to function the different piston sizes to designed force required.

I tend to disagree it is a simple procedure, the abs system is designed to work with the link brake system which has a certain fluid capacity & extra proportional valves. The size or caliper pistons & fluid volume has a impact on the piston size used in master cylinders & my limited understanding of abs is to release pressure there is a release piston. What determines that piston sizing so the brakes don't release to much pressure & then when reapply add to much pressure. Both linked brake master cylinders have to be replaced when you do fork upgrade & delink brakes & then you will need to run lines into abs system so the total fluid volume will change in a major way as well as forces applied in braking system front/rear. Granted I maybe wrong & the only way to know is either have all the tech data on the VFR system & changes your going to make & do the math or experiment which could be costly when you add all the modifications needed to find it doesn't work or worst case find it doesn't work on the road in an emergency.

My vote goes to Sargent, had the Corbin for many years & did like it but compared to the Sargent (you don't know till you try both) the Corbin for me was inferior, the added bonus is the Sargent weighs about the same as the standard seat as the Corbin with it's base weighs as much as a stack of bricks. The icing on the cake is the Sargent is much cheaper, anybody who I let ride my bike comments on the seat cumfort so I'm one very happy Sargent seat owner.

Just for the record my riding style is fast into a corner less throttle out due to lean angle so I need to trust the front end, it's not always the fastest way around a corner but it's what I enjoy the most.

Wow, totally the opposite to how I ride, which is slow in fast out. I've always felt more comfortable doing that. Doesn't mean I'm right or fast though!

Your way is the safest way for riding on the road, the only draw back is you tend to wear out rear tyres faster using power to fling the bike round the apex & out of the corner. I picked up the habit from track riding to go into a corner fairly hot so you have allot more lean angle so you can't use as much throttle at the apex due to smaller tyre patch on the road, so you have to wait longer to apply max throttle out of the corner when bike is more upright. I don't know why but a get a buzz when the foot pegs on the VFR scrap but tend to use my boot toe slider as the gauge so I don't keep wearing out pegs. I have cut my leg a few times working on the bike walking around it when the pegs grind on the edge & become sharp. What I like most about the VFR is the stability & there is so much grip with modern tyres on there side walls you can scrap out a VFR so easy, but you do have to be careful because it is so easy that you don't go to far & hit something with no give & lose rear wheel traction. Was following friend that just went to far & his bike spun on the center stand like a top while he was sliding across the road.

I tend to agree about shifting technique is the main factor, but from day one I have used Motul 5100 10w40 which is a semi synthetic, I never bothered with a full synthetic mainly due to frequent oil changes at about 5000km intervals & the oil was doing it's job because it would come out fairly dirty at change time. I haven't really changed my clutch/shift technique at all because after riding for over 35 years I probably set in my ways by now. When riding the VFR hard high rpm & allot of gear changes I would tend to get a false neutral every now & then, yes some operator error was probably the cause.

Due to also owning a CBR1000RR which I run Castrol Power 1 Racing 5W40 which is a full synthetic I decided to only keep one oil for both bikes (I can buy the Castrol for about same price as the Motul I was using) & have started using it in the VFR. I have noticed my VFR will operate at a slightly lower temperature & haven't had a false neutral since changing. Now I'm not a chemical engineer & I don't agonize over what oil to use it just has to do the job so I don't see any metal partials at oil change time & I want it to come out dirty at 5000kms which tells me it is doing it's job. Like I said my technique wouldn't have changed so there must be some part of the equation which is oil related.

I don't see them mentioned but I'm really impressed with the Metzeler M5 on the VFR outstanding grip, great wet weather performance & I get better wear & grip from them than Pilot Powers & here in Australia there cheaper than Michelin. They have a sports bike profile so turn in & response is the big plus for me & they tend to warm up just as fast as the Michelin's. My standard set up before was Pilot powers front & back & if I felt I wanted better mleage for long trips Road2 on the rear, hate Road2 front very unresponsive tyre.

Renevator my thoughts on your last post.

I'm of the opinion good suspension isn't just for track days or fast riders (corner monkeys) but for everyone, yes in this day & age money is tight & allot of riders use there bikes only as a toy & those that are married have to justify the outlay just to have a bike in the garage. But frankly that is the wrong attitude, your far better off buying a cheaper bike so you have the funds to have the suspension modified to suit YOU. In the wash up your going to be far safer, your confidence/skills will grow without you even knowing & in the end when the need arises you will be a faster rider with a higher margin of safety than if you own a bike with much more hp that cost allot more money.

Parker made a comment about the R1 setup change to his 4th gen "I gain more time & use the brakes less" now his skill level didn't just change over night, what did change was the suspension on his bike nothing else. He is using the brakes less which means his corner entry has increase, yet if he needs to use the brakes harder like before suspension upgrade now he will stop quicker. That alone means one thing a higher level of safety, larger margin for error. I mean lets be honest we all make mistakes sometimes, some of those mistakes cause damage & pain, if you can increase the chance of recovery from said mistakes that has to be worth it's weight in gold.

You will always have the money factor involved so really people should modify there suspension for the best possible outcome within there budget because any upgrade is better than none. I note in your post some have said they lost this & that, well concentrating on USD conversions the only thing you lose is some turning cycle which only effects U turns, big deal how often do we do U turns in tight places & if you do just prepare like stop back your bike at an angle, then proceed forward to complete the U turn. Turn in etc is all part of set up like bike geometry, tyre profile, spring rate & valving, if people aren't happy then you need to address these factors. There are to many that do a fork conversion but forget the forks there using weren't designed for the bike there riding so you need to have valving/spring rate set up to suit the bike. More so with sportsbike forks on the vfr as I have mentioned the vfr doesn't load the front end anything like the forces a sportsbike does so to adapt to use with vfr you need modifications & not doing so is like baking a cake & not putting icing on it.

If my budget only allowed a purpose built aftermarket rear shock but meant I had to keep the standard forks with the correct spring rate & valving to match then that would be what I would do, but with the standard forks I would be changing out the fork oil every 5000kms to help keep response at the best level possible. The oil does contaminate quickly with the standard forks, I have pulled them apart at 2000kms & the oil was more contaminated than my R1 forks at 10000kms.

As the OP originally ask what people think of their front end conversions & I’m probably the only one on the site that has ridden on the most VFR’s with conversions I thought I would try my best to explain differences. When this type of question is asked you read a lot of posts from those that state “I don’t ride hard & my standard front end works great” which unfortunately without wanting to upset anyone who feels that way is like a person living in a box & thinks it’s great because they have never lived anywhere else.

Suspension for motorbikes evolves just like everything else & there is the other fact motorbikes are built for a target market to a price point by manufactures so you simply won’t always get great suspension standard with every bike, what you get is adequate suspension. The main purpose of suspension is to keep the tyre firmly planted on the road surface at all times nothing more, but to do so with so many variables is no easy task. Let’s take for example a high end shock the Ohlins TTX which is cutting edge, but since its release Ohlins have changed the internal design for the masses many times. That doesn’t even account for an individual having there suspension tuner do more modifications. The standard VFR suspension say for example the 6th gen has been the same design from factory from 2002-2012> the Ohlins TTX shock hasn't even been out that period & has had many internal revamps.

My 6^th gen to use as an example front end has had standard forks re valved, RC51 forks, R1 05 forks, CBR1000RR forks with 30mm Ohlins cartridges & now Ohlins FGRT forks with 25mm cartridges. All the fork swaps have had extensive re valving to dial in my preferred feel option. Each fork has worked the way I have wanted them for my preferred feel, but the main difference with all these upgrades has been safety. The difference between the R1 05 forks & the CBR/Ohlins forks is next to nothing & I would still have the R1 forks installed if I hadn’t have sold the bike & then bought it back 2 years later. But to put that into prospective the R1 forks had valving specially designed for me & the VFR setup, none of the valving inside forks was standard R1.

The difference is like so, the standard forks have zero remote adjustment rebound/compression so the internal valving has to deal with so many variables you are making compromises by design. They also flex more than USD forks which isn’t major but the effect is noticed the most under hard braking. What is bad about the flex is the heat & wear it causes to internal parts, the more heat & wear the quicker your fork oil is contaminated. Contaminated oil slows response which is what suspension is all about, remember the standard forks have no rebound/compression remote adjustment so you can’t even compensate as the oil starts to get contaminated. This scenario is at its worst with 4^th & 5^th gens because there forks flex allot more having smaller diameter fork tubes & I have seen so many of these fork internals that bypass oil in a major way past the cartridge shaft seal due to wear from the flex. If your shaft seal leaks oil flow doesn’t flow through valving it squirts out the seal, outcome poor response.

RC51 forks are great forks compared to the standard forks but there an old design & there is a trade off with rebound/compression with them. You can’t valve them to get both compression/rebound very close to perfect, the suspension tech will make a compromise between the 2 when valving. You can notice this effect yourself (well I did) one click more compression makes too much difference & until you find a happy medium you’re always going one click up or one click down. The reason this happens is the VFR doesn’t load the front end much at all so you set compression soft to help load the front yet you hit a big bump & there is too much fork travel. The brakes aren’t really any better than the standard VFR brakes as far as callipers & clamping force, the big improvement is fork compression valving. This with the higher rigidity of USD forks (less flex) is what improves braking over the standard forks.

R1 forks are cutting edge for their price point & from 04 till 08 haven’t changed that much internally, there very easy to setup for the VFR & there remote rebound/compression adjustments are very precise. The major effect I notice changing to these forks was being able to change direction close to full lean angle mid corner without the bike becoming unsettled at all. That is a major safety improvement if there is a rock etc you didn’t see mid corner. The feel I obtain with these forks I couldn't with standard is the front end bobing up & down as it goes over bumps, but it's only the fork movement I'm feeling the front end stays more or less at the same height, the wheel is following the road surface sending great feed back through the bars. The other added advantage was the radial brakes which can be used to their full because the R1 forks compression is so good & the same rigidity as the RC51 forks.

CBR1000RR forks are more or less the same as the R1 but I can only comment on the Ohlins cartridge aspect because I haven’t ridden a VFR with modified standard valving. As mentioned the direction Ohlins has gone with really only 30mm valving available now is sportbike tech which place extreme loads on the front end, which the VFR doesn’t. This type of valving design is high stability under brakes, unfortunately I found due to the VFR not loading the front end like a sportbike I couldn’t gain the feel I prefer form them & my suspension tech did try a number of modifications to try to attain the feel I like. The front end mid corner due to unloading to quickly felt flighty & didn’t matter what rebound remote adjustment I tried on the fly I just didn’t like that valving on the VFR. On my CBR1000RR is another storey there outstanding.

The Ohlins (CBR1000RR) FGRT forks I have come with 25mm cartridges (the newer model now has 30mm) & these suit the VFR much better & I now feel there as good if not better than my old R1 setup.

The bottom line is response time as you need your forks to keep that contact patch at all times which is a major ask with all the variable road conditions. Remote adjustment rebound/compression on the fly with forks that are more ridged so less heat & wear internal components is everything when the flow rate of fork oil is what creates the response you need to keep that front wheel planted at all times. Just think how your standard forks feel straight after an oil change & then think about keeping that oil in that condition for a longer period & having adjustment to prolong the response as the oil starts to contaminate. Since installing the first USD upgrade (RC51) I haven't had a front end slide, not once, yet with standard forks even with valving & correct springs addressed I had many a slide, that is not in gravel or very lose surface as no tyre can grip if what it's griping to moves. Just for the record my riding style is fast into a corner less throttle out due to lean angle so I need to trust the front end, it's not always the fastest way around a corner but it's what I enjoy the most.

Hope I haven’t bored anybody with my speel.

BR / zRoyz,

You both mention being able to use the stock VFR wheel/rotor combo with the F4i forks and zRoys you are using the F4i caliper/master cylinder with that combo. Does that mean that the VFR calipers will not work with the F4i forks? I found a few sets of '02 F4 front ends for sale and thought I might look into this mod, but I would prefer to keep the stock brakes on my '09 w/linked braking intact. (I pressume they need to be F4i, not plain F4?)

You can't keep the link brakes with F4i forks because the LHS 6th gen caliper mount has the link brake mastercylinder for rear brake & the mount on that fork leg for that system is completely different, you can't really use the 6th gen lower with the F4i because of the compression adjustment adjuster is on the lower F4i fork leg & the reason to upgrade the 6th gen forks with F4i is to gain remote rebound/compression adjustment they have & the 6th gen doesn't. To keep the link brakes & improve the standard forks there are kits aval to add rebound remote adjustment but honestly if you get your 6th gen forks valving & sring rate set up well the only real worth while upgrade is USD forks.

Bellow is my 6th gen with CBR1000RR forks, I have sice installed my Ohlins CBR1000RR forks because the 25mm valving they have suits it better than the 30mm Ohlins cartridge kit in the forks in picture (the forks in picture are now installed on my CBR1000RR as the 30mm cartridges suit that bike better). The difference they make with handling & braking is like drinking your fav beer ice cold to the standard forks drinking it boiling hot.

These are Ohlins forks on my CBR that are now on above & above now on CBR, the reason for swap is the 30mm valving is for heavy braking & high front end loading, the VFR doesn't load the front end anywhere near as much as a sportbike.

Bellow is my old track bike 4th gen with 6th gen front end, I only used them because I had them from my 6th gen when it was upgraded to USD forks. Due to the LHS fork leg needs the link brake mastercylinder setup there not a good swap, I just filled the master cylinder & sealed it off. Your better off using F4i forks which have the bonus of rebound/compression adjustment. The difference from the standard forks & brakes was worth the change 100 times over & needed it for the track.

Bellow is F4i front end I fitted to friends bike, parts were: F4i forks, F4i calipers, F4i master cylinder, F4i guard, 6th gen triple clamps, 6th gen clipons, 6th gen wheel, 6th gen rotors, 6th gen axle.

You do know Hel do the kits.

http://helperformanc...=vfr800&x=0&y=0

It was a request I made that Kal is responding to.

Yes I know (and imagine Kal does as well) that a range of companies offer kits, but I have access to braided steel hose (and fittings) to measure at a local parts shop and it will probably cost me half as much as a ready made kit...

Why pay more??

Your lucky enough to be able to make your own, Seb does too, but in Australia your not allowed to for brake lines as they need what is called ADR certification. If we get pulled over by law enforcement that understands what there looking at you will be defected.

You do know Hel do the kits.

http://helperformance.com.au/store/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=vfr800&x=0&y=0

My steering lock is also alined so works on my gen6 but to use it you really are pushing against the radiator hose needing to squash it & with mine I like the bars more forward so that does limit the forward clearance which just misses dash when triple touches radiator hose. It is less of a problem as have hiss fitted to Australian bikes so a little harder to ride away.

I don't no about the gen5 as haven't bothered looking into it but on a gen6 I wouldn't even bother with steering stops because the radiator hose does that for you more or less as that is what hits at limit of travel & when bike running it is as hard as a rock due to pressure. You can't really use the ignition lock anymore anyway, you can really jam the steering over trying to squash radiator hose to use steering lock but only really works when bike cold. You want to lock your bike carry a rotor lock. Bottom line you crash your bike the same damage will happen with or without steering stops. Gen4 you just drill & tape frame each side of steering stem & use bolt to adjust stop location on the stops already cast into replacement triple (Gen4 you don't remove cast lags on triple).

Oubaa there is a very simple explanation, you change engine oil regularly because of heat & contaminants, fork oil needs to be changed for the same reason. Fork oil heats up & is contaminated in two ways very fine dust particles can pass through the seals & the internal components like the brass alinement bushes & valve stem which are continually under side loading from flex & up/down movement wear. This is why you can find major amounts of sludge within a fork tube.

I more likely to agree it's just cam chain noise, did you do an oil change after swap. Also simply winding the adjusters back & letting them release again works wonders.

Also because bike has been sitting awhile before you bought it might just need a good run so everything gets nice & hot & remove any carbon build up etc.

Sent you pm about duct tail, might have been lost with forum update the other day.

Nah I got it, just been too sick to respond. How does $80 plus shipping sound?

Done send me pm with bank details & shipping cost to 2223.

Also if you have a rear brake lever in good condition I take that too.

Sent you pm about duct tail, might have been lost with forum update the other day.

Of course, I forgot to put the chain back on when I installed the swingarm. Do I bother taking it off again or just buy a new link? Decisions, decisions....

Gah, nobody has any link pins in stock. Looks like the swingarm's coming off again.

If an x-ring or o-ring you can buy any brand chain link that is that type to replace & even if they order your looking 3 days max so can be the last thing you do as I'm sure there is enough stuff to do until then. But as you have had swing arm off it would be easy to remove again.

What would really set that off would be to get the clutch bolts chromed so they really show up spinning.

Righty-o, I've got the old motor out of the 2002 frame. I even did it by myself, without a jack. I just knocked the forks up through the triple clamps and lowered the bike down, then took the last bolt out of the motor. It was a close thing - much harder with the wiring harness in the way!

I did notice though that either the new bike was missing some engine mount spacers, or I forgot that I took them out. If not, it appears that the new bike has had the engine out before, or it's a different engine than what I'm expecting......

Hmm, I wonder if there's an easy way to tell if the engine number is the original one that came with the frame?

Looking at the 02 & 06 frame parts the spacers are the same, they are numbered differently but use same part numbers, you will know if there are spacers you can't remember if you look around your garage you should have 2 of everything.

http://www.powersportsplus.com/parts/search/Honda/Motorcycle/2002/VFR800+AC/FRAME/parts.html

http://www.powersportsplus.com/parts/search/Honda/Motorcycle/2006/VFR800+AC/FRAME/parts.html

The only way to know if engine was swaped which is unlikely is do a full registry check which will cost you & see if engine number matches VIN number on record, if it does it will tell you original motor or there will be a listing motor changed, if it doesn't match then motor was changed but not recorded with registry.

I use this web site to look up parts & also buy from them as there prices for oem parts are very good, look at this page part number 13

http://www.powersportsplus.com/parts/search/Honda/Motorcycle/2004/VFR800+AC/STAND/parts.html

Ahhhh, somebody has added to that after the fact! I have an offline copy (PDF) of the fiche created by one of our members and it doesn't have it listed as left hand thread.

Not that I would have looked at the fiche first, mind. Maybe I should start doing that eh.

I find it helps allot compared to just using the service manual

Don't stress to much it is the same bolt that I snapped & I new it was left hand thread, the thread lock Honda used & years of alloy to steel corrosion they don't like coming out as the alloy being cast isn't that strong, you tend to get the same problem with engine mount bolts but as there larger stronger bolts the alloy thread strips. You can try a ezy out but didn't work for me & why bolt snapped was like bolt welded in so had to drill out bolt so start with small size pilot drill & slowly work up sizes. The main problem is you can't be sure to hit dead center of bolt so you will probably lose some alloy which opens up the hole even larger than a stripped 10mm bolt (reason to slowly go up drill sizes while removing bolt).

I didn't bother with making replacement bolt left hand thread (you can buy left hand thread tap if you want) but going up to the next size 12mm (use 12mm 1.5mm pitch for better strength but costs more) I wasn't happy with as my bore was a little egg shaped due to slightly off center drilling so I went to 1/2 inch UNF for a little extra meat in the thread, that is about limit going up sizes due to needing to drill out pivot bush that goes through center stand that uses thrust washers, which I drilled out to 13mm. 13mm bolt isn't a standard size & 14mm is to large so if you can get away with 12mm if your drilling is the best option.

Due to larger bolt with fine thread i just used thread lock again which is why I didn't bother with left hand thread replacement, I also didn't use helli coil because of the 12mm problem I had & the helli coil is a limited length & you use about 30mm of thread length within alloy.

If you want 1/2 inch UNF tape as already have one which cost about $25 & 1/2 inch UNF bolt warehouse is 5mins from my home as I will probably never use the UNF tap again so your welcome to it for price of postage & cost of bolt.

I use this web site to look up parts & also buy from them as there prices for oem parts are very good, look at this page part number 13

http://www.powersportsplus.com/parts/search/Honda/Motorcycle/2004/VFR800+AC/STAND/parts.html

It is listed in the manual as left hand thread & parts fish but only the RHS bolt so to undo the RHS center stand bolt you need to turn it clockwise (normal bolt you turn clockwise to tighten. So I'm guessing you snapped the RHS bolt because you turned it counter clockwise which is tightening it doh. They are thread locked in & very tight anyway.