Rush2112

... less friction = less wasted power. With wheels spinning at >2000 rpm that heat and friction adds up... apparently this guy dyno'd it and got the results to prove it

From what I've read, the bearings are still the steel and chrome races with ceramic balls.

Those are the hybrid bearings and I installed them on my 5th gen front wheel about 1 1/2 yrs ago when my stock wheel bearings went bad... love them! Smooth as glass and have never given them a second thought. I'm a happy convert and was planning on adding them to my project track bike... not right off the bat, but as a future upgrade once I get it running and the suspension sorted out. Price has come down a little since I last bought them... about -10% I bought mine from VXB and a quick check for the VFR front wheel bearings shows they have gone up ~10%... the decreased price was for the set I was looking at for my R1 wheel.

VFR front wheel bearing:

http://www.vxb.com/page/bearings/PROD/Kit8172

Durability over the long term is what I would wonder about.

From my first post, "Benefits are they are more durable (4 times more than steel balls), less friction, lower manufacturing tolerances, and more heat tolerant with less thermal expansion."

Bringing this one back from the dead. Spotthedog posted this up on the VTR250 forum.

http://vtr250.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&p=6601&sid=7686ab2ccee614d38d53de4d51975a00#p6599

One of the threads I read is quoted below. I can't remember what I read that netted 5% but that may be optimistic.

Fianlly a trusted source has dynoed these gains. Thanks Tommy Micili, a kick-ass drag pilot/builder:

http://www.cqcmagazine.com/jul-05/citizen/index.htm

"I just did a Ceramic wheel bearing test on a 2007 GSXR 1000 2 days ago. We made numerous pulled on the bike then pulled the rear wheel and replaced the wheel bearings with WWB (World Wide Bearings, Inc) ceramics. The bike picked up just over 3 HP at peak but picked up 6 pounds of torque. This increase is shown through out the entire range. I will have the results up on our website in a couple of days. Here are some results on the same test I did on a 2006 ZX10.

http://www.psndealer.com/dealers....ngs.jpg

"Both of these bikes had under 100 miles on them. I have also tested these bearing in my stock 2000 Busa which had 10,000 miles on it and the gains were between 4 and 5 HP. I did another test on my busa in which I disassembleld the motor and Microblue coated the internals and put ceramics in the the trans, that mod netted 12 HP. I have dyno sheets on all of my tests and I'm happy to pass them on. PM me if you have any questions.

"95% of all Prostock race vehicles in every form of motorsports run ceramic bearings wherever possible. If they didn't work they wouldn't be using them. These guys are the best in the world and they believe in the benefits of Ceramic bearing over conventional bearings.

"Microblue is a friction fighting coating that we use on anything that moves. Microblueracing.com is the website. Ask for Craig and tell him I sent you, he can educate you best on these coatings.

The bearings are still really pricey. But considering how they are still less than a full exhaust system, it's not that bad for those in the hunt for more HP.

Do you know if Tommy used full ceramic bearings where the race and balls are made from ceramic or hybrid ceramic bearings where only the balls are ceramic and the races are stainless steel? I chased the links but two off them wouldn't load.

Welcome! ...and thanks for letting us see that beautiful bike again. I'm with Seb, love to hear the exhaust :)

I recommend a couple of 1000

Watt halogen work lamps for garage heating.

?

Nice!

Kill two birds with one lamp... heat and illuminate :D

I've spent hours researching offsets and trail numbers and reading Race Tech's Motorcycle Suspension Bible. The data shows most of the best handling bikes have around a 30mm offset with high 90s to low 100s trail values (CBRs, GSXRs, R1s... early R1s and RC51s are exceptions) and rakes of 23* to 24*; this was also confirmed by a reliable suspension expert.

The stock 5th gen VFR chassis geometry doesn't cut it for this application... and it wasn't designed too. No fault, no grandiose claims that I can engineer better than Honda. Just me attacking a challenge to take something I love and adapt it to a new, more specific application.

Based on this, and some more expert input, I'm going to shoot for an initial set-up of 30mm offset, around 102mm trail, and ~24* rake on my 5th gen track bike. My '09 ZX14 50/54 USD forks are scheduled for delivery tomorrow... so I can start the measuring and wrenching and stop the jabbering!!! Build thread to follow...

To modify your rake to work within the design parameters of above mentioned GSXR/CBR are you going to cut your headstock from the frame and weld it back at that desired 24* angle?

If not, perhaps an eccentric in the steering stem mount will allow for enough rake correction.

I'm hoping with a little elevation of rear ride height, and possibly lowering the front a little, I want to see what kind of rake I can achieve... I'm hoping to get down from the stock 25.5* to close to 24*. I can calculate and spreadsheet it to death, but until I have the parts assembled and start tweaking it is all theoretical.

I'm not currently looking at cutting and re-welding the frame... that is kinda outside the scope and budget of my modest attempt :)

For me, it will be easier to tell what can be achieved when I have a rolling chassis... i uncrated my engine and swapped the lower cushion for a 6th gen today... the real fun starts next weekend... temperatures permitting, I don't have a heating solution for my 2 car garage.

I've spent hours researching offsets and trail numbers and reading Race Tech's Motorcycle Suspension Bible. The data shows most of the best handling bikes have around a 30mm offset with high 90s to low 100s trail values (CBRs, GSXRs, R1s... early R1s and RC51s are exceptions) and rakes of 23* to 24*; this was also confirmed by a reliable suspension expert.

The stock 5th gen VFR chassis geometry doesn't cut it for this application... and it wasn't designed too. No fault, no grandiose claims that I can engineer better than Honda. Just me attacking a challenge to take something I love and adapt it to a new, more specific application.

Based on this, and some more expert input, I'm going to shoot for an initial set-up of 30mm offset, around 102mm trail, and ~24* rake on my 5th gen track bike. My '09 ZX14 50/54 USD forks are scheduled for delivery tomorrow... so I can start the measuring and wrenching and stop the jabbering!!! Build thread to follow...

CBR929/954: from base of the lower triple to the top 8"7/8. Bearing surfaces on the steering stem are spaced 7" apart (outer dimension).

When using the CBR929/954 for a fork swap are there any threads exposed above the top nut? If yes, how far does it extend past the nut? If it doesn't extend beyond the nut is there complete engagement of all the nut threads with the steering stem?

CBR929/954: from base of the lower triple to the top 8"7/8. Bearing surfaces on the steering stem are spaced 7" apart (outer dimension).

Thanks Man!

Anybody know if the RC51 is the same?

Just go buy a used Honda triple for as little $$ as possible, and take the stem out. In an accident, 9 times out of 10 the stem is fine and the triple gets tweaked. So finding a cheap tweaked triple with a good stem should be easy.

Then you can press that into your new custom lower triple.

Will the VFR (or RC51 or 929/954) stem be long enough if the custom triples are... let's say, an 1" thick aluminum alloy?

Anybody have VFR800, RC51, 929/954 steering stem available for measuring? What is the length of the steering stem?

Someone posted earlier a link to a fork conversion table for All Balls Racing and I'm trying to see if there are other options... the unknown is the steering stem length.

Does this mean I get my $250 deposit back ?

??? Was there a custom triple group buy that I'm unaware of?

Does anyone have a CAD drawing or similar format for 54/50 triples with VFR geometry to loan or sell that will allow me to provide to a machine shop for a quote?

Boy, those have got a lot of meat on them... I guess they are going for the industrial look

It's not that they have a lot of meat... well, it is,... but that's because they've skipped a lot of the dress-up features which drive up the labor and therefore the cost.

I do the same with my custom sets.

...This is one of the more fancy parts I've made. Still basic, but has a nice shape. Counterboring the stem pinch bolt was slightly challenging.

I guess that is more accurate... the other shape was blocky, less work put into the aesthetics.

Your work looks outstanding with nice shape, form, and function.

Boy, those have got a lot of meat on them... I guess they are going for the industrial look

Also, last time I glanced at them, I thought you could get a set of 929 triples for closer to $150 if you were patient.

CC asked for pricing for a "decent" set of triples. The pricing I offered was based on what I consider a decent set in good shape; plus, I've been looking at the RC51 lowers with 929/954 uppers. For the past several weeks they have been priced high... I think the sellers might know what we are up to... Right now, the best price on the bay is $180

It is almost cheaper to buy a complete set with the forks

I've heard there is a guy (Douglas Machine) in Athens that will do them for about $400-500 just depending on how quick you want them and his work load. i've never used him, but know someone that has. Might be able to eye his set if you wanted confirmation before having him make you a set.

If you could provide some feedback on the quality of his work that would be great. I'm not in a rush, my forks won't be here until next week...

a custom set of triples, one off, should be between $400-$600, depending on how fancy you get.

I can measure and calculate but how do you translate that into a usable format for a machinist? CAD drawing, illustration, sketch on a napkin?

... and how do I find a magician to create this masterpiece? I've got no connections or experience in this area of expertise.

Well, you either have to adapt the wheels/rotors/calipers to the VFR spacing, or just change the location of the bores when you are machining. If you are manually machining it, it is a slight nuisiance since you have to keep the wall around the forks consistent for all spacing values. But the other way you have to space rotors differently and adjust wheel spacers.

Do we have an option where we can get triples manually machined to order at a poor man shade tree mechanic price?

I'd love to get a set of triples with the VFR offset and matched to my donor parts so I don't have to shim...

Can the steering stem be pressed out of a VFR or 929 triple and pressed into a different lower triple without damaging? Could a VFR steering stem be pressed into the IMA lower triple to get the correct length?

I am thinking of sending a spare 5G frame to Italy to ask them to modify the triples for me. I may have to purchase a run of them to get them made this way but we would know for sure the yare the factory offset and would be perfect for 54/50 USD forks.

What is the end goal? Steering stops correct, ignition mount, 50/54 bores, VFR offset, VFR spacing? I always thought it would make more sense to leave the fork spacing to whatever the donor forks were.

IMHO... I think the 50/54 bores with the VFR offset is the most important... spacing is easiest if left the same as the donor fork/wheel/brakes combo, but this leaves too many options and makes it too specific. Most of the Japanese forks are Showa (Honda), so wouldn't using Honda spacing would allow a variety of Honda wheel/brake options and keep it more true to the brand?

Please let me know if you get anything going with custom triples that have the correct geometry. I just picked up an '09 ZX forks/lower triple/and wheel.

It has the 310mm rotors and I wonder if I can use the 6 piston '07 - '08 R1 calipers. Anyone know what the mounting bolt spacing is on the '07 - '08 R1 calipers?

What does a decent set of used Honda triples for a USD conversion go for now?

about $250 for the 929/954/RC51 sets... '04 - '07 CBR1000 are about $50 cheaper but I haven't heard of anyone using them.

I just bought a set of 54/50 USD for my 5th gen project. What year ZedX14 did you go with when you bought yours?

I need input...

Bumping this old thread... calling Mr Carver. Any updates? Did you get the spacing sorted out? Are these after market triples the elusive USD fork dream parts?

Someone already started this so I'll add on...

My rear set question, are there any Honda sport bike rear sets that will fit onto the bolt spacing of the 6th gen lower rear cushion bracket?

I.e. CBR 929 or 954... 1000 maybe?!?

I want to switch to GP shift pattern for a track bike project I'm creating

I'm looking to raid the Honda parts bin to put different rear sets on....

any insights or experiences are appreciated!

Thanks

... Is this the sort of thing you're looking for or something like a 1" = 35 miles at this Zoom level" kinda thing?

Yes, this is exactly what I'm looking for... I don't mind taking the time and constructing what appears to be a great route on a map using the waypoints or dragging the route line, but as I zoom in and out it helps to know what the scale is to put things in perspective. Thanks...

FWIW... I plotted out a 430 mile day trip through unknown (to me) territory much quicker than other apps I've used. The computer interface side seems well done... now to go out and test the accuracy of the mapping!

PS: Love the terrain view for evaluating potential new roads to try!

New Issue:

1. Unable to print turn by turn directions.

• Nice option would be to export to a table instead of print. I like to have line by line directions for roads, turns (L/R), headings with distances to be traveled before next turn. I keep this in my map window on my tank bag. I usually export these to Excel and edit for brevity.

I.e.

L (MO-94) W => 34 miles

R (MO-D) N => 5 miles

It's not fancy, but it is functional and clear for quick glances while riding... if you could export or print something like that you would have something unique... and I would be a very happy camper!

I like it... much easier to use than Base Camp. Will try out the export capabilities...

1. need a legend key on the map for distances.
2. Occasionally double enters waypoints and need to be deleted manually