toro1

Don´t mean to interrupt BUT I know you´ve got the radials on but do you know what bolts are used to fix the caliper carrier brackets to the fork legs.

NOTE not the caliper bolts!

Mine didn´t come with and surprisingly they don´t have a part number for them.

Thanks

Bren

Hey Bren,

I forget if those threads are fine or coarse thread, but I'm thinking they were coarse thread (which would make them M10-1.5x25). If so, just go to McMaster-Carr's site, click on "Screws & Bolts" and go from there. They have them in stainless and also in high-strength Class 12.9 steel, which is what I used for the caliper bolts. You can get them in any length & style you want (no need for Torx).

I did the delink job about 3 years ago. On the rear I used the RC51 master cylinder - its the same 14mm piston as the CBR and then went to a single line from the m/c to the caliper with a mini brake line bridge between the outer piston and the middle one. -- Just an idea for you....

I thought about doing that, mello, but the lines were already there and I didn't feel like wasting any more time taking it further apart. I was able to get it bled pretty quickly, but I won't know how the braking performance is until I get it moving again. I did, however, find out something worse than the brake job -- the mess of wires I need to redo on the bars. I've got so many gadgets wired in that I seriously need to rethink how to do it properly, especially now that I have less room with the bigger fork tubes.

Nice. Those aren't going through the arm, are they?

No, they route down between the tire and swingarm (there's plenty of space) and then run along the bottom of the arm. I drilled and tapped the arm and used the original metal brackets from the chain guard (closed up very tightly) to hold everything in place. Even up close, you can't tell the lines are there. I also had to reverse the direction of the banjos on the caliper to make it run smoothly.

What, you didn't feel like "going fishing"? :biggrin:

Yeah, not particularly. Plus, hiding the rear lines was one of the very first things I did to the bike...

I still remember taking this shot the day I first got the bike done -- it feels like ages ago. My, how the bike has changed since then.

Nothing too glamorous today, but I did tackle the one part I least looked forward to in doing this swap -- getting rid of the linked brakes.

I started by sucking out as much fluid as I possibly could from the system. If there was a bleeder, I bled it.

I decided to remove the entire system -- bent lines, PCV & all.

Ahhh, so much more room without that PCV in there. The hard part, though, was removing the hard lines that run from that valve to the front end; it's hard enough as is to get them out of there with the subframe & tank still bolted on, but I have so many gadgets wired in and snaking about that it was close to impossible to remove those lines...but I somehow managed it.

For the rear brake setup, I figured that the best compromise was to run the stock caliper (with stock lines) and a CBR master cylinder, utilizing all 3 pistons.

The stock VFR unit is on top, and the modified F4i unit is on the bottom. The F4i master cylinder initially had a much longer pushrod and a banjo stopper in the wrong location, so I needed to trim down both to work in this application. The center distance of the mounting holes is identical for both units (1.770"), so I left the tapped holes in the new unit as is and used new mounting hardware to bolt it on.

After the PCV was removed, it freed up the other line running to the rear caliper, so I then bolted both lines to the CBR master cylinder and reused the VFR fluid reservoir and hose (and it looks oh so stock). All that's left to do now is to add some fluid and bleed it.

I may be crazy (OK, everyone agrees on that one) but you always seem to do everything the hard way. I think you just like the machne shop. :rolleyes:

This is true, Larry. I guess I'm just a glutton for punishment. The real problem, though, is that I'm a perfectionist that knows exactly what I want, so there's no stopping until things are just so. Plus, I was raised by a machinist, so things only get done the right way.

Wow. Toro, you really do nice work. Need a summer intern? I'm in college (again), but would love to work in a machine shop again! Don't have much lathe experience...

I could be an unpaid intern...

Unpaid? Sure! I have tons of work needing to be done, and no money to pay anyone, so it sounds like a win-win to me.

The last time I talked to you, you were running a 45t rear sprocket, weren't you? I'm sure you've already thought of it, but why not go back to the stock 43t?

I still might, Steve. The problem is I like the acceleration characteristics of it now, I just want it to stay planted better on the ground. A lower CG should help that issue, as well as offer better handling.

I turned up the caliper spacers yesterday using 7075-T651. They ended up being quite large, but they place the caliper pads in the ideal spot on the rotor.

I kept the pin locating diameters accurate to 1/2 a thou, so everything should be nice and square once bolted up. It became instantly apparent to me that they were going to look way too bulky if left as is (and they did), so I decided to add a simple contour to the OD.

I found a nice little mandrel that let me turn them to my liking.

All bolted up and looking much better. I also couldn't see dropping $40 a piece for titanium caliper bolts, so I got some Class 12.9 SHCSs (for about a :rolleyes: per piece) and turned the heads myself. Now that the hard stuff is done, next week I'll mount everything on the bike.

One of the two mods I'm still waiting for someone to do is to fab an entire new rear hub assembly to accommodate a Ducati or Triumph wheel (while keeping the actual VFR SSSA.) If you could pull that off, that would be way cool. :biggrin:

That's entirely possible, Steve. Like anything else, if there was enough interest, I'd consider doing it.

Did you get the custom "SCARAB" upper triple clamp too?

Oh, I've got it, though it's no longer gold -- I had it anodized black to match the rest of my bike. You'll still know it's a "SCARAB" design, though.

Seb's got the story straight, and was nice enough to ship the parts to me way back in the day.

What else do you think you might be doing to it?

Well, I have to redo the brakes, so I'll be yanking the linked system and changing around the rear master cylinder. I'm also changing the geometry slightly from stock in an effort to keep the front end on the ground a bit better. There's more, too, but it will all be revealed soon enough. After the front end swap, the only other thing I'd like to do to the bike is the tail swap/surgery/liposuction. There's a lot of weight hanging out back there waiting to be shed.

Nice, your forks are on the wrong sides, but I bet you already knew that.

Hey, those are Ralph's forks aren't they? :biggrin:

As I said, there are some sharp eyes on this forum. The madman who designed the caliper adapters swapped the forks to get everything to clear. How I ended up with them is interesting, but I owe it to Ralph to give his hard work a new home.

So I've got a little time off between supercharger kits, and rather than taking a trip, or lounging around wasting away to nothing, I'm doing something far more constructive -- I'm swapping front ends.

This has been a long time coming. I first obtained most of the parts from a member here on VFRD a few years ago, and since then I've been so busy that actually performing the swap kept getting pushed to the back burner. The story of how I ended up with these parts is interesting indeed, but let's just say this setup has passed through a few hands (and 4 continents) before now being installed on my bike. In fact, those of you with sharp eyes just might recognize some of these parts...

The obligatory Before shot. Everything was still in great shape, but for my weight, the stock forks just weren't cutting it, especially after riding brand new literbikes around. My rear Elka was begging & pleading for help up front.

I'm using 320mm Ducati Brembo 996R rotors up front, and had to turn up new rotor spacers to get them to work with my 900RR Marchesini mag. After taking extremely detailed measurements of the front end, I drew everything up in AutoCAD and thus knew exactly what size to make these. I started with a big chunk of scrap 6061.

After turning, I then drilled the proper bolt circle. I made sure the faces were absolutely parallel and square to the bore, and they fit both the rotors and wheel perfectly.

I also had to drill & tap a new bolt circle into the wheel. Fortunately, the Marchesinis have a constant wall thickness around the hub, so there's plenty of meat to bolt into. I used a roll tap for extra thread strength.

The next dilemma came with how to mount the front wheel; my wheel fits the stock VFR axle, but not the RC51 axle. No biggie, I'll just replace the bearings with RC51 bearings, right? Nope, the ODs are different (42mm vs 47mm) and the RC bearings have an odd ID (22mm), so the only other option was to make a new axle...

I started with a solid bar of 17-4PH stainless.

The stuff cuts nice, but leaves never-ending stringers. It took a lot longer than you'd think to get to this point.

I then hollowed the whole thing out (note: not fun), tapped the end, and made it nice and pretty. It ended up weighing less than the original RC axle.

After modifying one spacer, I mocked up the wheel, axle, rotors, and calipers in the forks to take final measurements. The R1 calipers need to be spaced just a little bit. Or a lot bit, actually. I'll get to them tomorrow. So far, though, everything is lining up very nicely.

I had the forks themselves sent out to Dan Kyle for custom internal mods, set for my application; I cannot wait to give them a go.

That's all for now, but here's plenty more to come, so stay tuned. :fing02:

Bloke was having MAP sensor issues due to positive pressure, same as you did.

I steered him your way for some advice, hope you don't mind!

I fried my ECU fixing that very issue -- if he wants the solution, I hope he has some deep pockets...

Pretty interesting. We're definitely gonna need some more info. I can't tell exactly how the exhaust is run from that video.

Imagine how it would be with a supercharger !!!!!! :biggrin:

That might become a reality -- I've had more interest come my way from RC owners than any other group of riders. I think it would be an easy build, too.

200whp without breaking a sweat.

Seeing these RC51s made me remember something -- back in college, when I was really just starting to get into streetbikes, I came across a picture of a black RC51 and thought it was the meanest looking bike I'd ever seen. All these years later, it still looks the part:

I actually had a dream last night where it was announced, in your website, that the 6th gen. kit was finally ready. How is that ZX10 kit coming along? I am asking because I hope when you are done with it, you can start the 6th gen. kit. Come on Toro, the USD is at an all time low here, I could tell my wife that it is a very smart buy (it actually is, but I don't think she will buy into this arguement :unsure: )...

Sounds like a good dream! It's now getting closer to reality.

I did this 4 years ago to the frame and swingarm, using a primer base and Krylon Semi-Flat Black, and the paint is still holding up very nicely.

DSCF5131small.jpg

DSCF5134small.jpg

While I did disassemble the swingarm, I did not take the engine out -- I just very carefully masked everything off and it turned out great. I did, however, have all the bodywork and airbox off the bike before masking. I painted nearly every part on that bike, and as long as the prep is good, the results are fantastic.

Notable results for the shoot out (was at the Ace Cafe, London):

Viff = 170.4

GSXR1000 = 165.9 (no idea the mods past race cans)

CBR1000 = 151 & change (cans)

R1 ('00) = 125.6 (Akrapovic system possibly more that I couldn't see)

170 does sound a bit high, but when you're posting higher numbers than modified 1000s, you know the supercharger is doing its job. Not bad for a bike equipped with the stock cat-equipped header.

Just for reference, on my dyno the '04 ZX-10R we're building a kit for put out 150hp (with a full exhaust & other tricks), and a bone stock '08 GSX-R1000 laid down 152hp, so the 160hp run with my VFR sounds in line with Mark's 170hp run on a different dyno.

The only thing that really matters, though, is what it feels like ripping through the gears...

Gollum, are you secretly me?

For about 3 years now I've been planning a twin VFR-engined, twin supercharged Mini, with a curb weight around 1000lbs and packing at least 600hp. Ever since I was on the Formula SAE team at college, I've wanted to build a car of my own that would perform in the same way, but with the ability to blast around on public roads. There is just nothing like being able to turn as hard & as fast as you can at 60mph without even so much as tire squeal.

Remember that the VFR800 powerplant is actually 90º -- it's the RC45 that has a 180º crank. Unless you make a custom crank for this engine, you won't get it to sound like a Ferrari.

As far as power is concerned, I don't advertise this, but I've seen 167hp at the wheel on my supercharged setup -- that's right around 190hp at the crank. There's no doubt in my mind that the stock internals can handle 200+hp. With the Mini project, I was planning on running forged pistons & rods, and also adding an intercooler, and then 300hp per engine should be cake with pump gas.

BTW, I love the LS1s as well, and plan on doing the E36 M3 swap in the next few years.

Good luck with your project.

Maybe I'll swap the stock sprockets back on once I finish up my secret project I'm currently working on.

Would this be the secret project that I'm privy to, or a new one?

It is the one that you know about Seb, and it looks slightly different then when you saw it last. I'll tell you what else, after riding around on an '08 GSXR1000 for a few days, the VFR needs to go on a diet. Badly. I'm already thinking about where some weight can be shaved...

Oh, if I only had the time...

I've tried to explain in the past what it feels like to ride a supercharged bike, but I think you've nailed it here. It's just a really fun powerband to play with, and that rev-limiter does come up awfully fast.

Dan,

Have you considered or tried "easier" gearing. A larger front sprocket (6gen) might do wonders with 1/2 gear acceleration and due to the abundance of torque 3/4/5 probably wouldn't feel any different.

I've yet to try different gearing. There's no doubt that a larger front sprocket would help with first gear, but once this thing starts pulling, it doesn't take long to reach redline, in pretty much any gear.

Maybe I'll swap the stock sprockets back on once I finish up my secret project I'm currently working on.

Is there another (cheaper) supercharger that can be utilized? Just wondering.

I'm about to get an an aneurysm from not having this kit.

Cheaper? No, unfortunately. Even more important though is the packaging of the beast -- the C15-60 fits perfectly in its location, and anything bigger would not fit without major work. The only other option is a turbo setup, and then we get into some heavy duty exhaust work, which would basically offset the $$$ savings over the supercharger. If we were producing more units, then the cost could be lowered, but since the numbers had to be scaled back, the cost went up. If only the VFR was as easy to package as the I4 bikes...

Speaking of production, I have gotten and am still getting a lot of requests for the 6th-gen kit. This might be a good time to take a sampling of current interest; if you have a 2002-2009 VFR800 and would be legitimately interested in purchasing a supercharger kit - priced the same as the 5th-gen kit ($5495) - please send us an email (no PMs please) stating your intent. We have a decent inventory of parts that can be adapted to the newer bikes, but I still need to figure out initial numbers a bit better before going into production. As always, if enough people want the kit, the price can come down, but until then the number has to stay where it's at.

Way to go Kenneth -- you are officially the first customer EVER to install our kit on their bike. From your pics it looks like you did a tremendous job. Here's to (hopefully!) many trouble-free miles ahead :cool:

130 km's in, i let it loose... 1'th gear, just gone, 2'd: power wheelie with a good dose of ignition cut (yes, it came faster than i was expecting), third: i need a steering damper, 4'th god damn... it just no more road. Good thing i had new EBC brakes on all wheels, cause nothing can stop this one now. And the rideability is just better than stock. going slow on the gas, and just making it run along up to approx. 6000 is just as good as it can ever be. Going further, with little throttle makes it feel a bit lean on the mixture actually, but twist a bit more and it just comes back. This is just the best time i ever had on any of my bikes.

And it just feels so, so very very right. There is no sign of the bike not handling it, the feeling i have is just that this kit just adds what the bike never had, or should have had. It feels like it will just continue to be this good forever, strange as i know my mechanics and what force feeding an engine with this kind of compression can possibly do. There is no weak sign, it does not feel like anything is on the peak of what it can take.

I've tried to explain in the past what it feels like to ride a supercharged bike, but I think you've nailed it here. It's just a really fun powerband to play with, and that rev-limiter does come up awfully fast.

Best of luck on your trip.

--Dan

The torque numbers I wish I had. When the sign said "Horsepower Run", I thought it included torque but it didn't :biggrin: . Only horsepower. Lame.

You need an RPM-pickup to get the torque curve, as the dyno just computes torque from its horsepower reading (TQ = HP x 5252 ÷ RPM). On our bikes, it's very easy to get to a plug wire & hook it up, but on other bikes it can be a pain, and I doubt they wanted to waste time hunting for a plug/coil wire when they could be making money doing more pulls.

If you know what gear he did the dyno pull in, you can compute your engine rpm working backwards from the indicated speed by figuring out tire circumference and gear ratios. Or, just realize that redline is 11,700 and scale the graph accordingly (ex. if the max speed it was taken to was 120mph @ 11700rpm, then 60mph would equal 5850rpm and so on). Once you know rpm, you can figure out torque.

I've got an '01. Looks like you are about 11 hours away. Is that "in the area" enough?? :biggrin:

If you'd be willing to ship it or trailer it to PA, hit me up with a PM.

Toro, I have been looking at the Laminova oil cooler and I was wondering if it can be applied to 6th generation right away. I ride throughout summer in Istanbul and it can get quite hot here (the temperature between June and September averages 28°C / 82°F) made worse by really terrible traffic jams. It'd be nice to help the cooling. What do you think?

It would certainly help, but before you go spending money changing the cooling system around, I'd recommend swapping in some fresh coolant and adding some Water Wetter. Just add 4oz of the stuff to the coolant and you should see lower coolant temps. If that's not enough, you can always swap to a larger cooler off a bigger bike. Don't get me wrong, I'll gladly sell you a Laminova cooler, but it's just not necessary for your application, unlike a supercharged setup, where compact space & much greater cooling capacity is paramount.