toro1

Hey, you know what would make your bike even better? A front end swap! :cool:

Sebby, remember that package you sent me a few years ago? I had some components "tweaked" and it's only a matter of time now.

I am wondering if the SC kit would fit to my 6th gen with the frame slider in place?

There's no way it would work with that style of frame slider as that sits right where the belt runs. If you want to run frame sliders, they would have to mount further outboard or more towards the rear of the bike, where the frame bolts to the engine.

Thanks for posting that, John. I was waiting for that article to hit, but they misspoke about the dyno tuning. The only reason you'd need to play with the map is if you have a significantly different exhaust system than the factory header and/or pipe/slip-on.

Also, Dan could you please post the required octane ratings to avoid detonation? Not just in American (RON + MON / 2) but also RON and MON.

You state 93 US octane, which to me works out at 98 RON, yeah?

Such fuel is not *always* available everywhere in Australia - sometimes you can only get 91 RON (approx. 87 US octane), but 95 RON is fairly common. What is your advice in these circumstances?

My car - a 4 litre six cylinder turbo - will run on 91 but only because it has a knock sensor AND a closed-loop EFI system driven by the O2 sensors. The VFR doesn't have this of course....

If you truly plan to never hit boost, and only operate at part throttle conditions and lower rpms (<7000), then regular gas if fine. However, if you intend to go into the boost, then I highly, highly recommend 91-93 (R+M)/2 or 95-98 RON gasoline. Even still, if you get a bad tank of gas or intend to do some serious prolonged boosting, a race-gas mix or octane booster can offer further protection against detonation/pre-ignition.

I run my bike on 92-93 (R+M)/2 here in the states and have no trouble. I have also found that the Lucas MMT-based octane booster works quite well with junky gas (believe me, you will feel a difference with a bad tank).

Also, I've seen the Motad header and it would be a nice upgrade for someone with a cat. I would still like to build a system with larger diameter tubing and a nicer collector design to free up some more power from this engine.

Landlover and Phantom,

The difference here is that the power is not dumped on the components all at once. It builds linearly so that while you are already underway, moving faster and faster, power is applied more and more. If you could bore this engine out to 1300cc, there would be real concern. However, you can't, and the torque curve is so smooth that there's no hammering of components (and remember, it's not like you are riding around with 160hp & 70lb-ft at all times). As was mentioned, most components - while not exactly the same spec - were developed during the RC45 program, where considerably more abuse was placed on them than will ever be put on a street-ridden VFR.

The following was taken from my FAQs page:

Will the supercharger affect my engine's durability?

For all intents and purposes, durability is unchanged. How can that be? Well, consider that for the vast majority of time spent riding, the engine does not even see boost (thanks to the vacuum operated bypass valve), which means that cruising and light acceleration conditions are unchanged from the stock setup.

Remember, the #1 killer of forced induction engines is detonation/pre-ignition. As long as the proper octane fuel is used, this is not an issue with A&A supercharger kits, as proper tuning and air/fuel ratios have been carefully worked out in advance to negate this scenario.

The boost curve of the centrifugal is also very easy on the drivetrain. Torque kills components, but since the supercharger builds boost in a linear manner, there isn't an overabundance of torque down low. Plus, keep in mind that the acceleration forces of the rod & piston moving up and down 200 times per second @ 12000rpm far outweigh the forces of increased combustion activity.

Running quality fluids, sticking to maintenance schedules, and riding in an intelligent manner will ensure solid performance for years to come.

I cannot guarantee the life of components if you strap a slick on the back, slam the bike, and launch it flat out on a dragstrip pass after pass -- the bike, and the kit, were not developed for that. I can only speak of real world durability with my bike, and it has passed that test flawlessly thusfar.

A long time ago, in the original supercharger build thread, I had asked Toro if he had considered using CBR1100XX injectors instead of the RC ones he modified.

Today, just for giggles, I looked up the part numbers, and I don't think they are any different, one to the other.

CBR1100 = 06164-PCB-OOO

VFR800 = 06164-PCA-OOO

Only the product code in the middle is different, so the parts should be identical in every respect.

No help really, but just for info and to soothe my curiosity from the old thread.

The Blackbird injectors are identical in function, appearance, and dimension to the VFR injectors, but they flow 50cc/min more. The only reason I'm not using Blackbird or S2000 injectors in the kit is that Keihin simply does not make them anymore and they cannot be purchased for a realistic price unless you're talking about thousands of units. Thus, I got around this whole injector problem by reusing the stock injectors and modifying the fuel pressure.

The only reason bigger injectors would be needed now is if an intercooler is added and/or more power is desired.

I think it'd be great to see some new footage of the bike in action (racetrack, quarter-mile etc). Toro do you have any plans to add any soon? I have a 6th gen. and I need to occupy myself with something until you have a kit for 6th generation. The wait is proving to be too painful :biggrin: !

I might be taking the bike down to Atco this year for a little dragstrip fun, and I am still planning to strap my DV cam to the tank for some high quality ride footage once free time & the weather cooperate.

I guess it eats rear tires whit good apetite :biggrin:

Believe it or not, it doesn't spin the tire anymore than stock. Granted, I don't do a whole lot of rain riding, but the only time I've noticed any spin at all is on very cold tires on very cold days. The boost curve is really gentle on the rear tire, and on the front one, too, as it wheelies long before it breaks traction.

Actually, just thought of an occasion where wheelspin occurs -- dyno time. If you do not have the bike strapped down fully with good weight on the back, it will spin the rear tire up. Funny looking dips & peaks on a dyno chart let you know when this is occurring.

How hard is it to keep the front wheel on the ground, now? LOL

Let's put it this way -- watching that original test run video now makes the bike seem tame. I'm contemplating returning my gearing back to stock as my front end has seen daylight in 5th gear. As long as you're ready for the power and put some weight over the tank, keeping the front end down really isn't an issue...

...beyond 3rd gear.

Whens the RC51 kit coming? :mellow: I'll drop it off whenever you want for R&D! :blink:

I have been getting more requests for the RC now that the site has launched. It's certainly a possibility, but I do have other bikes lined up to receive kits first. If there's enough demand I'll make a kit for any bike, but without feedback it's very hard to gauge real interest.

Toro, do you recommend cat-less headers / aftermarket exhuast? Or would this work fine with the stock gear?

It should work fine with the stock exhaust, but just realize that with the supercharger, the more exhaust flow the better, which is why I'm kicking around the idea of making a full system with larger diameter tubing. There's certainly power to be gained by opening up the exhaust.

As it stands, catless '98-'99 headers are the best flowing pipes found on any VFR. I'll find out how much power is lost from the cat once I bolt a kit onto a '00-'01.

Again, a slip-on is not needed, but will certainly bump up the power output -- if you're able to gain an extra 5hp or so on a naturally aspirated motor, you can imagine what it will do with the supercharger. This is also why I don't quote actual hp increases, as bikes and dynos vary too much from one another to accurately nail down a number. However, a percentage increase I can quote, as boost is boost, and affects your engine's efficiency (changing the exhaust will only help to increase that efficiency).

Serious looking stuff. I'm impressed!! Like the switch to the carbon overhead body... weight and space saving reasons I imagine.

So what sort of mileage do you get out of the bike on mixed riding over a tank of gas??? Does it add enough weight, and power for that matter, to consider stiffer fork /shockie springs??

The carbon intake hat was designed to work with an intercooler and also to distribute the incoming air as evenly as possible. Whether or not the intercooler makes it to production, it has succeeded in the power producing department and is both lightweight and low-profile.

I have been getting nearly 40mpg in normal mixed riding conditions. The only time I noticeably see a drop in mileage is performing flat-out dyno pulls or after a very hard day of sport riding.

You should not be able to notice a difference in weight. The supercharger itself weighs only 6lbs, and the rest of the componentry is mainly aluminum. I will weigh the parts taken off the bike and compare them to the weight of the kit parts soon, as I know others have been wondering what the difference truly is.

Toro,

Another question for you would a PCII work or would you need the III?

vince

I currently only have a working map for the PCIII. The PCII can work, but I would first need to develop a map for it.

Toro,

Looking over pictures of your kit I don't see any injectors or a bigger oil cooler. I seem to recall you changed your injectors and added a bigger oil cooler. Maybe my memory is fading a little. You might have only installed bigger injectors.

My question is: are bigger injectors needed with this kit as it stands? The oil cooler might not be necc if you live in cooler climates?

vince

Vince, I originally installed larger injectors, but have since changed the fueling system setup. I now run the stock injectors with higher fuel pressure, and the rideability, fuel economy, and throttle response have all increased. Plus, it is less involved both mechanically and financially.

The oil cooler is another major aspect of the kit that has changed. This is the new cooler design. It works excellent and takes up far less space. Plus, it leaves room for a water-to-air intercooler heat exchanger if need be in the future.

160hp sounds cool till you start to factor the other mods this will incur.When under boost you had better have a programmable ECU to manage fuel air mixture,a heavy duty clutch and do you want to be the test pilot as far as reliability etc. etc. etc.

Moto, as stated on the website, you will need a PCIII to run this kit. Many riders already own one, so I am not including it, but I am including a custom fuel map that should be very, very close to perfect for most people. The object was not to build a kit that then needed hundreds of dollars worth of install and tuning after being purchased, but rather assemble the most complete, hassle-free kit I could make.

Little things like coil-relocation brackets, fairing spacers with modified bolts, OEM gaskets, pre-cut hoses, pre-gapped sparkplugs, parts that carefully bolt onto stock mounting locations, and even a special spanner wrench that installs the timing cover properly are included because I've bought bad kits in my day and know I cannot sell a subpar system with my name attached to it.

Heavy duty clutch springs are included as well and, together with the stock Honda clutch plates, completely eliminate clutch slippage. I've been riding (and beating on) this bike since the summer of '07, and have yet to incur a single fault with the suspension, brakes, chassis, chain, engine, fuel system, cooling system, or any other system - it just works. I'm not trying to sell a bill of goods here, this kit is for serious VFR riders who want a seriously powerful V4 and do not want to drop $18k on the new VMax, $30k on the RSV4, or $50k+ on the Desmosedici.

I'm going off on a bit of a tangent here, but if you are a VFR800 rider seeking this level of power you have 2 options available: 1) add forced induction, or 2) buy a different bike. Either way, you can plan on spending a similar amount, but only with the first option do you get to retain the unique qualities that made you want a VFR in the first place. Now, maybe I'm a bit biased here (), but I have a feeling that once others get to ride a blown VFR, they will know what I am talking about.

This was mentioned this in the old thread, but it's worth repeating here.

I know the 6th-gen guys are wondering when their kit will arrive -- it's coming. I need to get the 5th-gen kits up and going first, and then the 6th-gen will have a kit adapted to it. The bikes are very similar so it shouldn't take too long to make the necessary changes. If you are a 6th-gen owner in the PA area and would like to be a guinea pig, let me know.

Seeing as how this thread has now run the complete gamut from prototype design to production kit, I have decided to close it.

Fear not, for the latest news & discussion, please check out the following thread:

5th-Gen '98-'01 Supercharger Kit

As more information becomes available for the 6th-gen kit, I will update this post.

--Dan

A&A Performance

Introducing the A&A Performance Supercharger Kit for the '98-'01 VFR800

K I T

L A Y O U T

It is now possible to bolt-on 50-60% more power to your bike while keeping a stock appearance, without changing any major internals, and with the ability to perform the installation yourself. The rideabilty you currently enjoy is unchanged, and the power output will allow you to keep pace with brand new liter-bikes, should you feel so inclined. This is the real deal.

B E L T

D R I V E

A I R B O X

D Y N O

C H A R T

D Y N O

C O M P A R I S O N

I N T R O

V I D E O

name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src=" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="320" height="265"></embed></object>&"> name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src=" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="320" height="265"></embed></object>&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350">

For more pictures, high-quality videos, information, and answers to your questions, please visit http://www.aaperf.com

Now feel free to comment & ask questions to your heart's content...

Thanks for the compliments everybody.

I know the 6th-gen guys are wondering when their kit will arrive -- it's coming. I need to get the 5th-gen kits up and going first, and then the 6th-gen will come in and we'll adapt a kit to it. The bikes are very similar so it shouldn't take too long to make the necessary changes. If you are a 6th-gen owner in the PA area and would like to be a guinea pig, let me know.

Whatever became of the intercooler idea? Not enough room on the bike? Plumbing nightmare?

Rob, the intercooler idea is still alive (the kit was indeed designed for it), but yes, there is not much room and it is a plumbing nightmare. The biggest drawback is the expense; that is, how many people would be willing to spend an extra $1k-$1.5k for a 10-15hp increase when the kit already puts out 160whp? If that answer is quite a few people, then I'll put it into production. It really does run quite nicely though on regular pump gas, and if extended boost situations arise (racing, long dyno sessions), then some octane boost or a little racing gas will prevent any detonation/pre-ignition from occurring.

Well, after nearly two years, a ton of work, and lots of discussion, this thread has officially come to completion -- but the end is just the beginning.

Introducing the A&A Performance Supercharger Kit for 5th-gen VFR800s.

K I T

L A Y O U T

It is now possible to bolt-on 50-60% more power to your bike while keeping a stock appearance, without changing any major internals, and with the ability to perform the installation yourself. The rideabilty you currently enjoy is unchanged, and the power output will allow you to keep pace with brand new liter-bikes, should you feel so inclined. This is the real deal.

B E L T

D R I V E

A I R B O X

D Y N O

C H A R T

D Y N O

C O M P A R I S O N

I N T R O

V I D E O

name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src=" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="320" height="265"></embed></object>&"> name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src=" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="320" height="265"></embed></object>&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350">

For more pictures, high-quality videos, information, and answers to your questions, please visit http://www.aaperf.com

You guys have been along for the ride with me from the beginning, watching as I mocked up parts in my garage. With A&A Performance now being fully legit, it has all come full circle. There are no disappointments with this kit, and the increase in performance will blow your mind. Also, keep in mind that a 6th-gen kit is just over the horizon.

Let's keep those good times rolling...

--Dan

You know how VFR animals can be if they don't get fed tid bits regularly. :biggrin:

I do, all too well...

Guys and gals, as I've said all along, when the time is right and everything is ready, I promise something special.

That time is a few days away.

:biggrin:

--Dan

How long aprox 'till we see a 6th Gen ToroCharger?. If you don't mind me asking?. I'll have about $6000 at the end of January

Hmm, I don't even want to hazard a guess on that one. If the 2 bikes are as similar as I think they are, not long. I'll just need to borrow someone's 6th-gen for a while.

Let's see how the 5th-gen kit works out first.

I'm curious to know, after all the heckling, how many people PM'ed you to confirm a purchase?

Enough to do a production run... :biggrin:

what are you looking at for the cost of the kit and what would it cost to ship to the UK?

I'm working on the final pricing now. With close to 100 different components in the kit, it's no easy task.

Vaporware

Hardly my friend. I just don't think it's fair to you guys to string along bits of information or product shots until I have truly concrete pricing or production details.

However, since this thread has been updated, now might be a good time to judge current interest, so...

If you have a 5th-gen VFR and would be legitimately interested in purchasing a supercharger kit, please send me a PM indicating your intent.

--Dan

What's that saying again, "good things come to those who wait?"

Let's just say that when the time is right, a whole slew of information will become available. In the meantime, though, I can tell you that the bike is running better than ever...

...way better than ever :fing02:

The mods look good. :fing02:

As for the breather cap, even though I oftentimes also have a "light" front end, I never have oil come out. You need no more than for the reservoir to be half full -- is your filled more than that? If so, take some of that fluid out of there and see how it works.

dOOd, If I weren't married with children, I'd be all over the SC kit.

Rob, just start saving a penny here and a $100 bill there, and it'll add up in no time.

Okay, if you find out that you can't pull any more power out of your bike, it's probably time to upgrade the supercharger to a C30 series. The blower is beyond its limit, as can be seen from the dyno graph where it maxes out at 11,500. Even if you keep the same boost ratio, just by stepping up to the C30-74 you'll see substantial power increases due to much increased efficiency and breathing room of the supercharger, and should put peak power somewhere in the 230-240 range, and peak boost just under 9psi. If you choose to increase the boost to say, 12psi max, then the power jumps to over 260, maybe even approaching 275 under the right conditions. Whoa mama.

Nice job Tyler. I forget, are you running a C15-60 on there? The reason I ask is that you are very close to maxing the blower out if that is indeed the model. I can't wait to see what you come up with after the next dyno session.

I'm helping out another one of calisuperbike's customers now; he's got a ZX-10R and actually got shafted worse than you. Let's just hope his turns out as well as yours did.