toro1

Hi all,

Machining the plates right now. I hope to have them completed today and sent down for anodizing first thing next week. Everyone who ordered will get a shipping notification when they are ready to go!

--Dan

Did you see that youtube video of the kid that throws down his brand new gixxer as he guns it out of the dealership? Rear wheel just spins out like the tire was made out of plastic! Then down she goes...

To be fair, the bike in that video had brand new, cold tires, which is pretty much like riding on ice if you give it any gas. I also have an '08 GSX-R1000, and believe me, you have to do something very stupid for the bike to get out of shape that badly with the tires in normal operating condition. I once watched an ex-racer dump his ZR-7 (hardly a fire-breathing monster) in the middle of the road after turning out of the parking lot to go home for the day. You just have to be careful...

Whether Honda is trying to save the drivetrain or the rider is anybody's guess at this point, but if I owned the bike, I would definitely want it unrestricted.

Yep, I've been down that road as well. There is a reason why my kits do not run a front mount intercooler or standard style oil cooler. It would be possible with a multi-piece, custom radiator setup, but not at a realistic price.

Is that a front mount radiator I spy in the box back there?

If only there were another 9hp to be found... Then you would have doubled the stock output!

What's really amazing here is we're only pushing about 10psi (without an intercooler) when in general with these superchargers you need ~15psi to double the power.

I'm almost tempted to turn up some bigger crank pulleys and see if we can crack 200whp...

:fing02:

This has just made my day. I knew my European map was off a bit, but this is just silly ridiculous power. I thought Steve had the highest power VFR800 locked up with his 175hp run, but you've topped him with this 183hp monster, Kenneth. Do you guys have any ethanol in your gas over there? We're saddled with 10%, which I think might be reducing the power output.

I'm going to post a link to your vid on my site -- very, very nice. Enjoy!

Hey Toro,

Would you please describe how the supercharged VFR feels compared to the non-supercharged motor? I know that asking you to describe a feeling can be very subjective, but as a 5th gen owner, I hope you'll be able to make the comparison. I'm wondering how the added HP and torque are felt by the rider. Does it feel comparable to the power delivery of a blackbird? Or is it only really noticeable at higher revs? Does the torque feel greater at the lower revs?

Thanks.

Hi Jamie,

In a nutshell, normal riding feels exactly the same as before. If anything, compared to stock, throttle response is crisper, starting out is easier, and the engine feels smoother, but it is still a VFR800. Now, there is no doubt that you have more power available to you at all points in the powerband, but in general, if you are at very low rpms (2500-3500), you will not feel much of a difference over stock as the Rotrex is only pushing ~1psi.

In most situations it has always felt to me like the bike is a gear (or two) lower than it would be stock. If you have a steeper gear ratio, the change will be even more noticeable. The power really starts to build around 5000rpm, with serious steam coming around 7-8000. From there on up, there is absolutely no resemblance to a stock VFR, as depending on the ride height and gearing, the front end becomes very light (with stock ride height and a -1/+2 gearing setup, I've had the bike wheelie in 5th-gear, but now with a lowered front end and stock gearing, it stays much more planted).

The bike will pull to redline with absolute authority, as the power never stops increasing -- if you hardly ever reached the redline before, you will once you add this kit. To give you an idea of the power, the bike will wheelie on command from any rpm in the first two gears with the stock gearing, and can easily power wheelie in 3rd & 4th. However, due to the nature of the supercharger, the power is still actually controllable, and you don't have to worry about a sudden boost spike coming out of a turn. 160whp is still 160whp, though, so you need to treat it with respect, and you can have some tense moments if you're not careful.

I have not ridden a Blackbird, but I can compare the powerband to a GSXR1000 & ZX10R. Basically, if it's low rpm torque you're looking for, this kit is not the answer. The bike is only 781ccs, and with low boost output at low rpms, this engine is not transformed into a 1200cc monster. Compared to the literbikes, around town I feel the VFR is actually a bit quicker due to the tranny gearing, but once you get in 3rd & 4th gear (and up), the greater torque of the 1000s (and their smooth firing 180° crank layout) provide a vibe-free, stronger pull from low rpms. If you really want to experience greater torque, changing the final gearing does wonders, but no matter what, 781ccs cannot compete with 1000-1300ccs in the torque department down low.

However, if you're used to the VFR powerband, and are looking for more power, this kit does give you more oomph at all rpms, with an insane amount coming from midrange on up. It makes a great bike even better, and really puts on smile on your face when you crank on the throttle.

Hope that helps.

I was going to ask you about that Dan. I understand the concept of what you're saying, but won't the computer make that required mixture adjustment based on the readings from the MAP sensor? That is, shouldn't it sense the denser air and add fuel accordingly?

It will compensate for the small stuff, but not WOT (which is why the map I provided, though perfect for me at sea level, was ultra rich for you at 4000ft). We are adding so much air & fuel to the engine that the stock sensors can't keep up. Remember, we bypass the boost from the stock MAP sensor so it doesn't throw a code, but at the same time, it renders it useless once we're pushing boost.

Ultimately, the best way to handle tuning would be to base the fueling off of boost, but to do that, the cost really starts to go up (due to needing a 3-bar MAP sensor, the multi-function hub if using a PCIII, or an entirely different way of handling the tuning). With most riders, unless they are significantly changing elevation, the PCIII is by far the most cost-effective way to dial in the AFR.

In your case, since you already have the LCD unit, you can store as many maps as you like, but if you want even greater tuning capability, then we'd have to look at getting you the multi-function hub and an aftermarket MAP sensor, at which point it truly would not matter where in the world you rode since the fuel added would be proportional to boost.

Wow - I didn't think Toro's elevation was that low. That would make quite a difference compared to Calgary. I'm headed to California for a ride in May, so I should find out then how my bike reacts at lower altitudes. I'm thinking its gonna be fun!!

Yep, I'm very close to the Delaware river, so while it's very, very hilly in my area, I'm basically at sea level (the dyno I use is only @ 100ft).

Steve, for your trip, keep my original map (and your tuned map) loaded on the LCD unit -- that way once you come down from the mountains, you can richen up the mixture on the fly (the LCD unit will let you store and swap as many maps as you like). With the denser air, your uncorrected hp will go from your current 156.4hp (173.6hp/ 1.11 - SAE correction factor) to a true uncorrected 170+hp, and you'll need more fuel accordingly (just for reference, my bike pulled 167hp uncorrected).

Steve's bike is officially the highest power VFR800 on the planet now. The initial map was pig rich, I'm sure, from the change in altitude (close to 4000ft, I believe), and once it was adjusted back to realistic AFRs, the power increased accordingly.

What is very interesting to note is that this bike pulls all the way to 12100rpm (as does the '06 I'm working on now), whereas my '98 stops right at 11700rpm. I'm not sure if this is fueling or ECU related, but either way, the dyno chart for Steve's '99 and my '98 are identical up to 11500, but his bike keeps pulling and thus ends up with 14 more ponies.

I don't think your insurance company needs to know if you are adapting the kit to a bike you already own -- it didn't come with it stock, and with most companies I've dealt with, they only care about the OEM specs of the vehicle you're covering. Now, if you purchase a motorcycle with a supercharger already on it, that's probably a different story.

I've also noticed that the insurance forms have a check box for Turbo/Nitrous, but not one for Supercharger, and besides, the kit is intended for off-road use only anyway...

:rolleyes:

Late to the party on this one, but the 2000-2001 VFRs had the VFR emblem on the tach as standard.

I've been looking for one for quite awhile, but every one that comes up on EBAY is worth an arm and a leg.

I did the same thing when I built my bike, Rob. I loved the look of the later gauges (and had to have that little VFR logo) and went through multiple clusters on ebay before I had the proper combination (it seemed like I could only find metric units for some reason). I wonder how many other '98-'99 owners have updated to the newer gauges?

Really nice bikes you've got there, zroyz. I plan on starting up a new thread any day now to cover the build-up of the 6th-gen kit. It's coming. It's definitely coming.

:comp13:

I didn't notice any change in performance, but what I do like is that I won't have to change them (iridiums) again for a long time. What PIA that job is.

Amen. I thought it was bad on the 90...98 was PIA+:fing02:

VFRs are an absolute cakewalk compared to a ZX-10R. On that bike, you have to remove both seats, 2/3s of the tail cowling, both side fairings, the inner fairing panels, the entire airbox assembly & ram air tubes, the PAIR system, the coolant overflow tank, and actual portions of the frame (not to mention moving the tank and radiator) just to gain access to them. On a 5th-gen you need to lift the tank and unbolt the oil cooler -- consider us very lucky.

BTW, I use NGK Iridiums in all of my supercharged applications; they're great plugs.

Bloke was having MAP sensor issues due to positive pressure, same as you did.

I steered him your way for some advice, hope you don't mind!

I fried my ECU fixing that very issue -- if he wants the solution, I hope he has some deep pockets...

Pretty interesting. We're definitely gonna need some more info. I can't tell exactly how the exhaust is run from that video.

I actually had a dream last night where it was announced, in your website, that the 6th gen. kit was finally ready. How is that ZX10 kit coming along? I am asking because I hope when you are done with it, you can start the 6th gen. kit. Come on Toro, the USD is at an all time low here, I could tell my wife that it is a very smart buy (it actually is, but I don't think she will buy into this arguement :unsure: )...

Sounds like a good dream! It's now getting closer to reality.

Notable results for the shoot out (was at the Ace Cafe, London):

Viff = 170.4

GSXR1000 = 165.9 (no idea the mods past race cans)

CBR1000 = 151 & change (cans)

R1 ('00) = 125.6 (Akrapovic system possibly more that I couldn't see)

170 does sound a bit high, but when you're posting higher numbers than modified 1000s, you know the supercharger is doing its job. Not bad for a bike equipped with the stock cat-equipped header.

Just for reference, on my dyno the '04 ZX-10R we're building a kit for put out 150hp (with a full exhaust & other tricks), and a bone stock '08 GSX-R1000 laid down 152hp, so the 160hp run with my VFR sounds in line with Mark's 170hp run on a different dyno.

The only thing that really matters, though, is what it feels like ripping through the gears...

Gollum, are you secretly me?

For about 3 years now I've been planning a twin VFR-engined, twin supercharged Mini, with a curb weight around 1000lbs and packing at least 600hp. Ever since I was on the Formula SAE team at college, I've wanted to build a car of my own that would perform in the same way, but with the ability to blast around on public roads. There is just nothing like being able to turn as hard & as fast as you can at 60mph without even so much as tire squeal.

Remember that the VFR800 powerplant is actually 90º -- it's the RC45 that has a 180º crank. Unless you make a custom crank for this engine, you won't get it to sound like a Ferrari.

As far as power is concerned, I don't advertise this, but I've seen 167hp at the wheel on my supercharged setup -- that's right around 190hp at the crank. There's no doubt in my mind that the stock internals can handle 200+hp. With the Mini project, I was planning on running forged pistons & rods, and also adding an intercooler, and then 300hp per engine should be cake with pump gas.

BTW, I love the LS1s as well, and plan on doing the E36 M3 swap in the next few years.

Good luck with your project.

Maybe I'll swap the stock sprockets back on once I finish up my secret project I'm currently working on.

Would this be the secret project that I'm privy to, or a new one?

It is the one that you know about Seb, and it looks slightly different then when you saw it last. I'll tell you what else, after riding around on an '08 GSXR1000 for a few days, the VFR needs to go on a diet. Badly. I'm already thinking about where some weight can be shaved...

Oh, if I only had the time...

I've tried to explain in the past what it feels like to ride a supercharged bike, but I think you've nailed it here. It's just a really fun powerband to play with, and that rev-limiter does come up awfully fast.

Dan,

Have you considered or tried "easier" gearing. A larger front sprocket (6gen) might do wonders with 1/2 gear acceleration and due to the abundance of torque 3/4/5 probably wouldn't feel any different.

I've yet to try different gearing. There's no doubt that a larger front sprocket would help with first gear, but once this thing starts pulling, it doesn't take long to reach redline, in pretty much any gear.

Maybe I'll swap the stock sprockets back on once I finish up my secret project I'm currently working on.

Is there another (cheaper) supercharger that can be utilized? Just wondering.

I'm about to get an an aneurysm from not having this kit.

Cheaper? No, unfortunately. Even more important though is the packaging of the beast -- the C15-60 fits perfectly in its location, and anything bigger would not fit without major work. The only other option is a turbo setup, and then we get into some heavy duty exhaust work, which would basically offset the $$$ savings over the supercharger. If we were producing more units, then the cost could be lowered, but since the numbers had to be scaled back, the cost went up. If only the VFR was as easy to package as the I4 bikes...

Speaking of production, I have gotten and am still getting a lot of requests for the 6th-gen kit. This might be a good time to take a sampling of current interest; if you have a 2002-2009 VFR800 and would be legitimately interested in purchasing a supercharger kit - priced the same as the 5th-gen kit ($5495) - please send us an email (no PMs please) stating your intent. We have a decent inventory of parts that can be adapted to the newer bikes, but I still need to figure out initial numbers a bit better before going into production. As always, if enough people want the kit, the price can come down, but until then the number has to stay where it's at.

Way to go Kenneth -- you are officially the first customer EVER to install our kit on their bike. From your pics it looks like you did a tremendous job. Here's to (hopefully!) many trouble-free miles ahead :cool:

130 km's in, i let it loose... 1'th gear, just gone, 2'd: power wheelie with a good dose of ignition cut (yes, it came faster than i was expecting), third: i need a steering damper, 4'th god damn... it just no more road. Good thing i had new EBC brakes on all wheels, cause nothing can stop this one now. And the rideability is just better than stock. going slow on the gas, and just making it run along up to approx. 6000 is just as good as it can ever be. Going further, with little throttle makes it feel a bit lean on the mixture actually, but twist a bit more and it just comes back. This is just the best time i ever had on any of my bikes.

And it just feels so, so very very right. There is no sign of the bike not handling it, the feeling i have is just that this kit just adds what the bike never had, or should have had. It feels like it will just continue to be this good forever, strange as i know my mechanics and what force feeding an engine with this kind of compression can possibly do. There is no weak sign, it does not feel like anything is on the peak of what it can take.

I've tried to explain in the past what it feels like to ride a supercharged bike, but I think you've nailed it here. It's just a really fun powerband to play with, and that rev-limiter does come up awfully fast.

Best of luck on your trip.

--Dan

I've got an '01. Looks like you are about 11 hours away. Is that "in the area" enough?? :biggrin:

If you'd be willing to ship it or trailer it to PA, hit me up with a PM.

Toro, I have been looking at the Laminova oil cooler and I was wondering if it can be applied to 6th generation right away. I ride throughout summer in Istanbul and it can get quite hot here (the temperature between June and September averages 28°C / 82°F) made worse by really terrible traffic jams. It'd be nice to help the cooling. What do you think?

It would certainly help, but before you go spending money changing the cooling system around, I'd recommend swapping in some fresh coolant and adding some Water Wetter. Just add 4oz of the stuff to the coolant and you should see lower coolant temps. If that's not enough, you can always swap to a larger cooler off a bigger bike. Don't get me wrong, I'll gladly sell you a Laminova cooler, but it's just not necessary for your application, unlike a supercharged setup, where compact space & much greater cooling capacity is paramount.

I checked online though, and noticed something - the distance from here to your shop is virtually the same as the Dyno'd horsepower of your 5th Gen Kit! Would you be open to a visit at some point for a first hand tour and some personal explanations? :fing02:

We're open 5 days a week. Feel free to drop by and chat as we're all gearheads here.

Speaking of dropping by, if there are any '00-'01 owners in the area who have been considering a kit, please give me a shout, as I have an interesting offer for you.