frodus

I got some more work done, we fabricated some battery trays, and should have them finished by next week. Then we can wire this b*tch up! Click on the pic to read more:

75 Miles? Wow, what is he on! Not with lead batteries, not with a heavy 700 and definately not with 24V.... i think he might be yankin your chain... but maybe if he's using lithium, but not at 24V....thats craziness! But yeah, I'll keep that place in mind. Its an ongoing project, but its gaining more momentum now, because the end is more near than before. Its not going to be an impressively ranged EV at first, but it will look and drive nice and get some exposure, support and who knows, maybe I'll sell conversions. We've got a VF500 right now, bare frame, no engine, needs some work, but in decent shape, no title Thats the next project. I'll keep an eye out, but keep an eye on craigslist, thats where I got the first VFR. Crazedlist.org is good too (searches ALL cities of CL).

Here's a video of the rear wheel spinning.... just a 12V battery, nothing special yet.... Last night Loni and I beefed up the motor mount, Once I get things all buttoned down, I'll take some more pictures, it was too late last night. Next step, figuring out what we're going to do about mounting batteries. Video: and some pictures:

http://www.autobloggreen.com/2008/05/02/pl...e-and-problems/ http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB120...ff_main_tff_top both sides of stuff, yes there are issues, but as a whole, we need to do SOMETHING... even if electricity is that "something".

WOW, lots of new posts.... As far as using the VFR, I got one for free that was a basket case and 85k+ miles, needed lots of work. I found another non-running bike in florida, had engine problems, rusted tank, carbs needed rebuild, but it was only $400, no title. I put alot of effort into finding a chassis only, and sold the parts to VFR owners that needed engine parts, exhaust, electrical. So, I took TWO non-running basket cases and parted out the things I didn't need so that others could get theirs running. I also didn't want some ugly ass cruiser, I wanted a sport bike, but without spending $5k on a newer rolling chassis. Long and short of it, They ended up both being free.... but getting them both rolling was another story. I had to get plenty of parts for the first one just to get it so it would roll (frozen brakes, rear shock was shot, front forks were pretty badly corroded and leaking, rusted subframes on front and back...etc). As far as the ZEV aspect, It might not start out zero (take into acount manufacturing motor, controller, batteries...etc), how its charged (via socket), and what machine work was needed to convert... no, it is not, nor will any vehicle ever be a ZEV, its a fabled creature. Now, if you want to talk about ZEV AFTER building it, That is my plan, to invest in some solar panels and charge at home. Efficiencies are increasing, cost is coming down, and they're more affordable per watt of power than ever before. Its only getting better. I could also add a 1000-2000W wind generator for cheap. http://www.energy.gov/energysources/electricpower.htm even natural gas is increasing, and its cleaner burning than coal, which has a TOTAL US use of 57%+, but they're also adding on cogen that use the exhaust from the turbines to put back into the system, cleaning up the output, and making them more efficient. 90% of the power generation facilities will be Natural gas and use cogen. I worked at GE Energy in Salem, VA, and know for a FACT that Wind and Natural gas turbines are their main source for power for its generators. Technology is catching up, but MOST of the citizens in the US don't realize, Coal is cleaner burning than most fuel efficient cars. Natural gas is almost clean, nuclear is clean except for the waste, water has only environmental impact, solar is clean (after manufactured) and wind is clean and has low environmental impact (subsonic frequencies). But even better, is that at today's prices I'll be getting right around 2 cents a mile economy, charge anywhere and be able to generate my own power. compared with 10-20 cents a mile (20-40mpg), having to full up at a gas station, and inability to make my own fuel.

Actually I've gotten better feedback than expected... PM me and I'll give you my number... come check it out anytime.

Cool project. I'll be interested to see how it turns out. By any chance, have you thought about going to a belt drive instead of a chain? That would really keep your noise level down. yeah, thought about it, wanted to do it, but I'd have to take the whole rear suspension off just to replace the belt, even if I tried to have guide pulleys and had the belt come in on the top of the swingarm, it'd be tough, and would change the Center of gravity raising the 60lb motor. I've thought about alot of design ideas, ranging from doing a 144V pack, to putting in a CVT like they have on snowmobiles all the way to hub motors, AC motors/controllers, .... and as Loni mentioned, having a removable "generator" around 1.5kW or less for extended trips. Once I started thinking about all of those, I realized, its far better to get a running mechanical system to tune the electrical with in the beginning, than it is to get a mechanical system working without knowing the limitations of the electrical. Once I have the mechanical down, I can change out motors and controllers and batteries all day. In fact, I'm trying to go AC in the end. Synkromotive has a 250A 3phase AC controller for BLDC motors... its just on pause while we work on the 600A DC. Once I go AC, I'll likely never go back to a DC motor/controller.

viperpilot.... thats one of the bikes that inspired me.... he did a great job on the conversion, nice and clean install. I'm a fairing guy though... and since I got uppers from Airtech (no headlight holes) and lowers from Chuck Crites, I might actually get some help from a guy I know with making them even MORE aerodynamic, since I don't need engine vents/intakes. But I hear you (and everyone else) on the range. LiFePo is within reach. Within a couple years, and all the machinery/process is outlined for producing batteries in mass, we'll see 100Ah LiFePo batteries with built in balancing available. just think, with ~35Ah, and a 400lb bike at 72V, most guys get around 15-20. you would likely quadruple that if you went 100Ah because of the weight savings, plus, you could put more batteries in the lead battery's place... and extend range even more. Its coming, has been for the last couple years, just look at the RC Industry and LiPo batteries.

well, alot of their new conversions are using a really nice AC motor... full regen, 80ftlbs of torque and 25hp (doesn't sound like alot, but its a flat power curve).... couple that with LiPo, and you're scootin. The original DC motor was good, but mine would stomp it

all the parts are off the shelf, controller, batteries, contactor, DC-DC converter, cable, gauges... some of the controls and monitoring and battery management need development, but there's stuff out there. Next project... a drag bike

I was ready when I posted, I know how forums are... I just figured out of the people that do read, maybe 5% would be interested... I love projects and follow others doing theirs... and if I had seen this type of project before, I might have been inclined to do it myself... oh wait... I did..

I'll try not to step on Travis' toes here. This project is all his, but I met him down at the shop last night and checked out the bike. It looks like I get to come down and 'hand him wrenches' while he mocks up packaging and builds brackets and racks for the motor, batteries, controller, and charger. He even has an idea for a generator in one "saddlebag" and fuel in another for a range-extending hybrid. The cool thing is that much of the technology is out there already. It just needs to be put together. Vectrix is getting close with this. Give the industry 5 more years and you'll see a bike with some sort of electric drive that we'd all enjoy riding. Thanks for coming down last night, it was good finally meeting a member of the VFR community. hopefully we can get the motor mounted after a couple days of hanging out at the shop. Then we'll throw 4 batteries in and wire it up to test.

Cool project, and ambitious :thumbsup: Not my cup of tea, but it should make for an interesting ride. Since the tank was rusty inside, did you gut the bottom piece for some packaging space? Seems like using just the top stamping would give you some room for...stuff. And shave a bit of weight. Can you program your PDA to pipe V4 exhaust and cam gear sounds to a set of headphones? :unsure: Oh, one last thing: Would a VTR-250 be a good place to start? Seems like that would be a lighter bike to start with, and the rear wheel would be set up for a smaller (ie, more efficient) chain drive. What are you doing for final drive, btw? Stock-type sprocket? Toothed belt? Toothed belt would be the cat's azz. Good luck! And I can't wait to see youtube videos of this thing! I'm going to guy the bottom of the tank, and let it be a hinged cover for the controller.... thats the plan. I think the VTR would have been good, but it doesn't have as much room, harder to get parts for, and I didn't see many around. Final drive will be somewhere around 4:1 maybe closer to 4.5:1 Can't do toothed belt, if I had to replace it, the whole swingarm has to come off.... I went downtown today, we'll start mocking up some motormounts for the new DC motor. I'll at least have 4 of the batteries hooked up to stroll around the parking lot within the next few weeks if all the parts get ordered and shipped on time.

just as you replied on VFRworld, I'll explain again I don't know where I said it was going to be heavier... I just said it wasn't going to have a weight savings.... there's a difference. Even with lead batteries, its going to be ~75bs LIGHTER than stock dry weight.

step one: getting it to work at 48V step 2: getting the 72V controller and reconfiguring the battery pack. step 3: Once this is all dialed in, I will begin looking at LiFePo batteries (Lithium Iron Phosphate) but right now, they're too expensive, but the prices are coming down. They really need off the shelf Battery management systems. Once its lithium, I'll basically be done, but I might tweak here and there with the rest of the bike (like MAYBE a diff rear shock/front forks)... we'll see. The thing is, this is bike one, bike two will be a similar setup, but with regen capabilities. More or less going to be a test bike, but we may make a track bike out of it, we're still deciding. So this isn't all that we're doing to this bike, its going to have some pretty cool stuff added to it... And we're tossing ideas around about propane/gas 1kV generators that can be strapped on the back for charging/extended range.

It will have no transmission (original was integrated too much into the engine to use). it will be a direct drive, with 4:1 ratio, but allow me to change lower or higher (3.5-4.5) if I change the front sprocket. Custom rear sprocket, standard #40 front, with #40 chain. Going smaller to cut down on noise since the front sprocket is going smaller, and rear is going larger. Plus, replacement sprockets are cheaper at #40, as well as the chain. Electric motors have max torque at 0RPM, and the torque curve is alot more flat, the power band is pretty wide. I'll still have around 20ftlbs at 4-5k rpm, but 50 or 60+ ftlbs at a standing start. Even with the gear ratio being 4:1 (the original has around a 15:1 in first because of the primary reduction, 1st gear ratio and final drive ratio, but has low torque when starting). Hoping to accelerate similar to the original, the motor is huge, 500A capability. Speed = Voltage, Torque = Amps.

Well, since i've got 2 identical bikes (other one was a 90k+ miles, blown engine for free), 2 motors and time, I'm going to fab both motor mounts, both battery cages, and get them both working. If anyone is interested, I might be selling the second one when i'm done to pay for another project.

The original engine wasn't in good shape, it had been sitting with fuel, the gas tank was rusted, carbs were dry and cracked, and the oil gummed up. it hadn't been run in 10 years. It wasn't a perfectly good bike, plus, no title. there was no way this thing was going to run legally ever again until I bought it. It would have cost the 150 plus the cost of rebuilding the carbs and couplers, rebuilding the engine. Plus, it was in FL, near the beach, and it was a little corroded inside and out, because he would turn it over every now and then, pull in the salty air, and let it sit for a few months.

I figure its about time that I start putting my VFR EV project out there. I was recently featured on Autobloggreen, and I guess I didn't think that many people were interested. But then My website stats jumped quite dramatically... so there's interest. Thought you VFR guys might like to follow the progress, I'm a few weeks away from having it running. My website is: http://www.evfr.net and there are plenty of pictures, and a blog or two a week since I started last year. About the project: The bike is a 1986 Honda VFR700F that I found in Florida for $400 with no title, in like new condition. Brand new tires, been stored for 10 years with $4270 miles on it. I got it shipped to Oregon for $675, and parted out the engine, exhaust and electrical and just about broke even. The bike was essentially free. The title was lost, but it checked out, so I found another frame for $150 and swapped it after engine removal. I'm currently working with a company in Portland on building a very robust 600A 156V fully programmable series motor controller. Its in test right now, and we're finalizing the design. We've got a PDA communicating with it for my display. It will display MPH (tach input to controller), motor rpm, battery side voltage and current, motor side current and voltage. It will display each battery voltage in the future. We're also working on battery balancing and charging designs. A couple months ago I found an Advanced DC K99-4007 motor on a surplus website, and bought 2 of them. They are equivalent to the ADC K91-4003. They max out at around 50 or so ftlbs or torque and 18hp. Its 56lbs and has plenty of thermal mass. max RPM is around 5500. Just need to machine the shaft for a keyway and shorten the shaft. I also scored 12 18Ah batteries (will do series parallel to get 72V) from another EV Motorcycle guy. They're about 13lbs a piece, for about a 36Ah pack at 72V, and 54Ah at 48V. Still working on how I want to charge and balance them. Just picked up a Vicor 200W 48V to 12V DC DC converter for my accessories/lights/contactor for $20... score. So I've got batteries, DC-DC, motor, controller, contactor, rolling chassis. I need to fabricate the motor mount (the Portland guys are helping me), make a battery cage and some battery/motor cables. I'm trying to pick sprockets and think I'll go with a 4:1 ratio. Some guys with eteks/perm132 go 5:1 up to 7:1. Other guys with smaller ADC motors go anywhere from 3.5:1 to 4.5:1. My motor is larger with more power, so 4:1 should be just right. I'm changing from 530 chain (#50) to #40 chain to make it more quiet. Sprocketspecialists have sprockets for me for under $100, and surpluscenter.com has sprockets and nickel chain. I need to start looking for a charger for short term, we're working on distributed charging right now, and its being tested. So thats about where I am. Comments, critiques appreciated. Travis Gintz 1986 eVFR