MooseMoose

God bless U-Line. They have a box for everything! You'll be getting fat, heavy catalogs pretty regularly now.

So, were they passivated before the bungs were installed?

Awesome! That's a brand new addition. They weren't there a week ago.

Yeah, and a few Suzukis are the correct size and type, too. 82-92 GSXR1100 -- https://www.eeygoshop.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=465599 the 1300s and large bandits are 42mm, too. I don't know that the round section is the only good one (as opposed to the correctly sized flat ones). I just know that's what SFDownhill had good success with while the other sizes and options were less than optimal. So I'm sticking with what someone else proved works.

You don't need Delkovic brand. Just search 42mm copper gasket. Here's a store: http://predatormotorsport.co.uk/EXHAUST-PORT-GASKET-ROUND-COPPER-42mm-O-D/ Less than three quid/3.34 Euro. I think you still have a few weeks before they're out of the EU.

Yeah, @WackenSS 42mm round copper gaskets are available from Delkovic USA, but aren't on their website. Just email them and ask for them specifically, or call them. They are less than $5 each shipped in the US. In the UK you can get them from the ebay.

Thanks, this was just the discussion I was wanting to have. Personally, I'm fine leaving it on once the pipes are on. And I don't care about the weight savings. I use it all the damned time, and 5 or 7 lbs dead center and low is not going to do a thing for me, as I'm a slow rider and fatter than the average bear. I just thought it might be a good time to clean off some rust and pretty it up a little since I'm going to be ripping stuff off anyway. For others, a removable solution sounds interesting. The delk's have slip fittings, so you can get that bolt out, but it isn't exactly a feature. Slip joints are one way of avoiding weld cracks and the like, but taking them apart and putting them back multiple times is not a good thing. That's really leaks waiting to happen, which is why I haven't just yanked the pipe and pulled me stand off already.

This is nice to see. It has been a great project, and y'all have done a good job seeing it through. But there's something to seeing the physical results that really makes it feel concrete. Satisfying. I ordered gaskets last week and they're on their way. Got my shift star finally coming, too. Guess it's almost time to strip the bike down and really get in there. I forget -- what's the deal with center stands? Can we remove and replace them with the headers in place, or do we have to drop the headers? My current set (Delkovic) you have to disconnect a pipe to get at the bolt on the right side of the centerstand. Tempted to clean mine up and give it a fresh powdercoat. If I have to drop the headers to reinstall it I might do it before the exhaust.

Are there charts for this? It would be an interesting experiment to see the results from. And I find it odd that a deflapped would make more power. With the flapper open it's pretty much the same short path. Seems counterintuitive to me. I'll be honest, part of the reason I got the my bike tuning on my rapidbike was to see how things changed the sensor data. But the other part was so I didn't have to worry about the fussy fuel mapping BS, which really is voodoo magic. Or tedious, which gets expensive if you don't have unlimited dyno time available to you. Just like that, if I shove a dB killer in my can for someplace like LagunaSeca, or my air cleaner starts to get dirty, I will still get a good mixture, without thinking about anything.

No need to be harsh here Mohawk. Honda didn't make something this complex on a whim. They had to have some reasoning behind it, else they'd never have dome something requiring that many parts. And your data isn't exactly apples to apples. Your larger airbox with a substantially greater volume doesn't have the compromises that Honda were trying to work with. I'm guessing they chose the airbox based on what they could cram under the tank with accessibility for maintenance, manufacturing concerns, fit to the throttlebody, and all of that associated stuff -- maybe including emissions and noise. But they aren't "restricting" anything. They just did what they did within the parameters they had to work with. I haven't seen this -- are there direct dyno comparisons from a stock airbox with and without the flapper and snorkel mods? Those charts might be interesting to see. And just interesting. Not to fight about, just to see because it is interesting to know how something like yanking the snorkel really affects intake. Most of us aren't going to go to the effort you did. One of the joys of your experimenting is that I can see what the difference is when you make a dual path intake or something ridiculous like that, and how it really works, but that's all a cumulative comparison that includes previous mods on your bike. Airboxes are like a capacitor in the hydraulic system. Changes in volume affect how they work, regardless of how restrictive they might be. I won't be able to get into it because I'm wholly unqualified to explain it and want to make that clear. There are a lot of voodoo magic elements to them, as well. But a significantly larger volume creates a slower change from state to state so an un-snorkeled larger capacity box is not a fair comparison. And, I think the point here, aren't we talking about lower than average mileage? Not all VFRs have shit mileage, this bike gets 10mpg lower than some other folks with stock bikes

Thanks, that's what I thought. I really appreciate the confirmation, though. At this point I have a new air filter, reputed to have good flow, so I am comfortable just maintaining it going forward. One less thing to worry about.

So, silly question. Is the big mouth K&N worth it over a piper cross? Right now I have a gently used small mouth K&N in my toolbox and a pipercross in the bike (it's a long story). Don't know that either made a lick of difference, but I had been led to believe the piperX flows a little more air than the stock and smaller K&N. Am I wrong in that assessment? Just thinking that getting another air filter might be a fool's errand if the difference is only slight.

I had a 3rd gen for 80-90K miles and shifting on the 5th is rougher. Not a problem, just not as good. I was able to pop down gears without the throttle and it was smooth and consistent, and upshifts were super consistent and quick. I shift the way Jason Pridmore taught me and he could do clutchless downsifts on a 4th gen, on a stand with the rear wheel in the air, that are so smooth you can't even see any chain lash. I rode on the back with him at Laguna Seca and you only knew he downshifted because you could hear it, there wasn't the slightest bit of roughness you could feel regardless of how hard or gentle his braking, and I actively practiced for years to try and achieve that level of smoothness. I can still do OK on the current bike, but the downshifts are just not as easy to do. This isn't lazy, it's me actively practicing my shifting and noticing a difference. So, yeah, if you're fine, good on ya. Enjoy your bike. But don't discount our perceptions. I also have a busted bolt (one of the LONG ones on the clutch actuator that the previous owner overtorqued), so I have to pull all that crap off anyway to drill it out. So the decision is easier for me. If I'm doing that work imma fuck with the shift star while I'm at it.

I'd love to verify this. I'm planning 3 sensors. Stock, with the third for my wideband o2. That's what I'm running now. I can have my buddy do it, but I'll be as happy throw a few dollars at wade as well as at my local friend if it is an option. If it's too much a PITA for us rapidbike guys, definitely don't press it. I'll be happy just to have the good pipes with stock bungs and not be a pain in Wade's butt.

Yeah, Lance, good job keeping this project going. Honestly, there's no reason to spend more on testing, even if you had the cheddar. You know #1 works to buy performance -- pretty much across the entire usable range, not just top end -- and I'm confident the mandrel bent runs will be as good or better. And the header should outlast my bike. It'll still be fun to see if folks get some increases once they get their new headers installed, of course. It's my sincere hope that our guaranteeing enough to cover tooling and development has given Wade a big enough boost to make post-group-order sets possible. They've done what seemed impossible, so when the final tooling is in place and we've all gotten our pipes, I definitely hope Wade feels rewarded. And, of course, willing to keep making for others who learn of these and don't want to go for the bargain aftermarkets. There are a few of us, but it's definitely a lot more of a niche market than it was in 1999.

I think you're cheating. that wheel isn't the stock black 2001 wheel. I bet the extra couple of ounces you saved with the 3rd gen wheel translate to at LEAST 5 of horsepowers you found! Mojo = Horsepower. If you'd added a few stickers you might have seen 120. Seriously, It's good to know a normal fan on an average day is plenty to keep these safe on a dyno. I am convinced there aren't issues with the radiators on the sides with no fairing. Or when moving in clear air, of course. The problem comes with fairings and no ram air coming in from the front as they seem to be optimized for moving air. Even being behind a car that disturbs the airflow will raise my cruising temperatures, it's nuts! I believe Honda engineers tested the whole deal in a wind tunnel and it worked wonderfully, but never tried making the breeze turbulent. I do wish you'd have been able to see the run. Just because it's deafeningly cool. But even with all the trouble and extra driving you got things done. Totally, this. Stuff just isn't a simple, static, perfect system. Heck, if it was, you'd never need adjustable starter valves to get per-cylinder flows sync'd at idle as all injectors would have identical flows at all cycle times. But duty cycling can vary. It can vary at different cycle times, too, so wide open might vary differently than 1/4 throttle, which is part of why the highest end race bikes do one per cylinder sensors, even when they're so meticulously maintained. But on the street no two of these will remain the same over the years. Even the spray pattern will eventually vary over time, regardless of how clean the injector is or how matched the flow is when you start out. That said, a downloaded map on a PCIII improved my bike a lot. But there's a substantial difference with the RapidBike, which makes things ridiculously smooth no matter what idiot thing I'm doing with the throttle. It's even MORE better than the PCIII, which was better than stock with my crappy pipes and drippy injector. That said, I get it if someone wants to DL a map and just go. They just dropped $800 on pipes and gaskets and whatever, and if the bike runs good it is good enough for the street. Plus, I already invested the extra 3 bills on the my tuning bike, so I might be too strong an advocate to justify the expense. Hah. Literally.

Actually I understood this as everything is NOT hunky dory, so it makes the mixture rich because that's the safest default mode to be in. The resistors in there only tell the ECU that the heater coil on the sensor is active and up to temp (the resistance changes as the temperature rises so that resistor emulates the hot-coil resistance Honda expects to see) so it won't throw a code for lack of sensors or bad sensors, but the data comes on the other wires, not the heater wire. If it isn't getting data it goes into a default rich fueling as going lean without data is dangerous, risking high cylinder head temps and possible detonation, thus the default rich mode. Anyway, with o2 eliminators in you will NEVER go into close loop fueling, no matter how you run the bike, steady or up and down the throttle. It'll stay in the default rich fuel map forever. That works for a PC though, because it provides a steady baseline to correct from. Don't know why my brain didn't realize it was a PC on zero map, not the proper Honda ECU mapping you started with. They are NOT the same, by the way. It'll be a good starting point, but don't count on it to be the best recipe for every bike. They're all snowflakes, especially at this age. Valves, injectors, throttle body will all have wear and work differently from bike to bike. Vacuum leaks (I had that one recently). Hell, stuff I am not thinking of could matter, but it all adds up. This exercise proves that, with a good tune, you get a few extra ponies over the default map, and that with the headers you get a little more grunt across the range. But to get the last pound of torque you'll still need to get your bike done, or get something with auto adaptivity. One thing extra good reading those charts, though, is that you don't have to trade peak for midrange. The TBR headers were only lower at the lowest end of the range in older dyno charts I'd seen, and this one shows them with a pretty steady 5% more hp everywhere above 5K, and a couple of lb/ft across the board. I don't know why they didn't start measuring until almost 5000 rpm, though. That makes sense for a track bike, but it certainly doesn't show the whole picture. Especially for a "new" design of header. But that's totally moot. These charts are good and it'll shows these do a good job all around.

I did a lot of research on this and opinions abound. But fundamentally, 13.1 is often considered optimal for power, regardless of RPM. Those charts are right there, between 12.9 and 13.2. I'm not sure the default VFR tuning, but ideal AFR for mileage and emissions are well over 14 (a lot of modern cars default to 14.7:1) so I'm surprised those VFR base readings are lower than 13.1 to start with. I find that interesting. Anyway, I'm just setting my rapidbike to 13.2, which is the My Tuning Bike default, for my max power map and not worrying about it beyond that. Works now, power delivery is super smooth at all throttle. So I'll do the same with the new header. I assume Autotune is similar, just adjusting the map in real time depending on a wideband sensor. Looks promising all around. 5% increase may not sound like much, but it will be noticeable. Especially the extra bit in the midrange. I'm fat and ride on the street, so a couple more foot lbs of torque between 5 and 9K is nice to have. Mostly it'll be nice to have a quality, well made header that is better, as opposed to the same or worse like the Chinese ones of questionable qualities.

3rd gen, too. Buddy had a left exit system on his 1990 and that was a bear to wrassle in to place. I guess it was always a little fussy from build to build with TBR pipes. No problem. It's a little annoying getting them sync'd at first, but really not hard at all if you have a good vacuum guage and a little patience. Glad to see the tool put to good use.

Talked to SFDownhill today and I think he said the pipes lined up, so at least we know the prototype fits. It's all together. I gave him my sync tool to use for the final tune up. I'm excited to see what they come up with. I'm patient. Don't need an exhaust so when they're here they're here. But I'm looking forward to seeing some data. Whets our appetite for deliveries down the road.

He had some posted. Maybe it was on vfr world. I'll see if I can still find them ** Edit: I can't find them anymore. Maybe they don't show what you wanted from him, but I do recall seeing some dyno runs. If I find 'em later I'll post links.

I'm of the 3 bungs camp. Here's the deal, I think the ONLY person here who has a quad of sensors on a VFR is @CandyRedRC46 , and he already has a TBR exhaust. I seriously doubt any of us are going to do more than one, or two, of these lambda sensors. It would be best to just sniff down the exhaust and get the 4 cylinder average, just like we're all going to do. PCIII folks are going to dyno it with a sniffer in the tail, rapidbike MTB and PC Autotune folks are going to stick with our current sensors. As for the question of whether 4 sensors will destroy the flow, I understand the concern. But @CandyRedRC46 had one in each downpipe and has posted impressive dyno runs. We're talking RC45 race bike level numbers on a 6th gen. 120hp is pretty impressive for a VFR. I don't think that's a problem, though if he's still paying attention maybe my tagging him will let HIM tell us of his reasoning. That said, I still don't think it's worth the effort for this particular exercise as most of us just want a nice header that isn't rotten or a chinese piece of marginal quality. A little gain in the high end is a nice benefit, I think most of us will be happy to see it, but the last 2% of horsepower or mileage you get from PERFECTLY balanced cylinder fueling can be left on the table. Oh, also, note that a map on one bike is not going to be the same as a map on another. They may be close, but fine tuning each cylinder on a test bike won't match a differen't bike's airflow, fuel injector condition, etc. If you're looking for a base map for PCIII or non AutoTune folks, I doubt it'll really be helpful for folks who want to build a map for their own bikes. After 20 years, they're all kind of snowflakes, especially with wear and mileage.

Absolutely! Mine was a leaky mess as is. I yanked that BEFORE I did the MTB and my idle changed a touch, which tells me it wasn't exactly working per spec anyway. You can argue about flapper mods, and I can see both sides, but I will ALWAYS recommend yanking the PAIR, regardless. But if it's letting fresh air in you straight up won't get the right readings. Probably run rich and fluctuate based on how you're riding and how much air those valves are leaking in.

Yes. Same as for the 5th gen 00-01 bikes. The sensor goes in separately, after the merge. There's a checkbox on the software to fudge the data if you leave the stock sensors in place, and they remain in place so nothing silly happens at the ECU. On my 5th gen I just had a local shop pop a bung in the mid pipe as close down stream of the merge as I could fit it.