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Showing content with the highest reputation on 10/05/2016 in all areas

  1. I'm a bit late replying to this, but ... VFR fork tubes will fit into Firestorm sliders, using the VFR springs and cartridges. So for a low cost upgrade, Firestorm sliders, front wheel spindle and mudguard, VFR fork tubes with your Maxton internals, 4 pot Nissin calipers from a Firestorm, Fireblade or CBR6 and a suitable master cylinder. I got my Firestorm forks cheap because they were bent, and I already had a 14mm master cylinder (off a Speed Triple iirc), so my conversion came in at about £75
    1 point
  2. Renevator my thoughts on your last post. I'm of the opinion good suspension isn't just for track days or fast riders (corner monkeys) but for everyone, yes in this day & age money is tight & allot of riders use there bikes only as a toy & those that are married have to justify the outlay just to have a bike in the garage. But frankly that is the wrong attitude, your far better off buying a cheaper bike so you have the funds to have the suspension modified to suit YOU. In the wash up your going to be far safer, your confidence/skills will grow without you even knowing & in the end when the need arises you will be a faster rider with a higher margin of safety than if you own a bike with much more hp that cost allot more money. Parker made a comment about the R1 setup change to his 4th gen "I gain more time & use the brakes less" now his skill level didn't just change over night, what did change was the suspension on his bike nothing else. He is using the brakes less which means his corner entry has increase, yet if he needs to use the brakes harder like before suspension upgrade now he will stop quicker. That alone means one thing a higher level of safety, larger margin for error. I mean lets be honest we all make mistakes sometimes, some of those mistakes cause damage & pain, if you can increase the chance of recovery from said mistakes that has to be worth it's weight in gold. You will always have the money factor involved so really people should modify there suspension for the best possible outcome within there budget because any upgrade is better than none. I note in your post some have said they lost this & that, well concentrating on USD conversions the only thing you lose is some turning cycle which only effects U turns, big deal how often do we do U turns in tight places & if you do just prepare like stop back your bike at an angle, then proceed forward to complete the U turn. Turn in etc is all part of set up like bike geometry, tyre profile, spring rate & valving, if people aren't happy then you need to address these factors. There are to many that do a fork conversion but forget the forks there using weren't designed for the bike there riding so you need to have valving/spring rate set up to suit the bike. More so with sportsbike forks on the vfr as I have mentioned the vfr doesn't load the front end anything like the forces a sportsbike does so to adapt to use with vfr you need modifications & not doing so is like baking a cake & not putting icing on it. If my budget only allowed a purpose built aftermarket rear shock but meant I had to keep the standard forks with the correct spring rate & valving to match then that would be what I would do, but with the standard forks I would be changing out the fork oil every 5000kms to help keep response at the best level possible. The oil does contaminate quickly with the standard forks, I have pulled them apart at 2000kms & the oil was more contaminated than my R1 forks at 10000kms.
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  3. As the OP originally ask what people think of their front end conversions & I’m probably the only one on the site that has ridden on the most VFR’s with conversions I thought I would try my best to explain differences. When this type of question is asked you read a lot of posts from those that state “I don’t ride hard & my standard front end works great” which unfortunately without wanting to upset anyone who feels that way is like a person living in a box & thinks it’s great because they have never lived anywhere else. Suspension for motorbikes evolves just like everything else & there is the other fact motorbikes are built for a target market to a price point by manufactures so you simply won’t always get great suspension standard with every bike, what you get is adequate suspension. The main purpose of suspension is to keep the tyre firmly planted on the road surface at all times nothing more, but to do so with so many variables is no easy task. Let’s take for example a high end shock the Ohlins TTX which is cutting edge, but since its release Ohlins have changed the internal design for the masses many times. That doesn’t even account for an individual having there suspension tuner do more modifications. The standard VFR suspension say for example the 6th gen has been the same design from factory from 2002-2012> the Ohlins TTX shock hasn't even been out that period & has had many internal revamps. My 6th gen to use as an example front end has had standard forks re valved, RC51 forks, R1 05 forks, CBR1000RR forks with 30mm Ohlins cartridges & now Ohlins FGRT forks with 25mm cartridges. All the fork swaps have had extensive re valving to dial in my preferred feel option. Each fork has worked the way I have wanted them for my preferred feel, but the main difference with all these upgrades has been safety. The difference between the R1 05 forks & the CBR/Ohlins forks is next to nothing & I would still have the R1 forks installed if I hadn’t have sold the bike & then bought it back 2 years later. But to put that into prospective the R1 forks had valving specially designed for me & the VFR setup, none of the valving inside forks was standard R1. The difference is like so, the standard forks have zero remote adjustment rebound/compression so the internal valving has to deal with so many variables you are making compromises by design. They also flex more than USD forks which isn’t major but the effect is noticed the most under hard braking. What is bad about the flex is the heat & wear it causes to internal parts, the more heat & wear the quicker your fork oil is contaminated. Contaminated oil slows response which is what suspension is all about, remember the standard forks have no rebound/compression remote adjustment so you can’t even compensate as the oil starts to get contaminated. This scenario is at its worst with 4th & 5th gens because there forks flex allot more having smaller diameter fork tubes & I have seen so many of these fork internals that bypass oil in a major way past the cartridge shaft seal due to wear from the flex. If your shaft seal leaks oil flow doesn’t flow through valving it squirts out the seal, outcome poor response. RC51 forks are great forks compared to the standard forks but there an old design & there is a trade off with rebound/compression with them. You can’t valve them to get both compression/rebound very close to perfect, the suspension tech will make a compromise between the 2 when valving. You can notice this effect yourself (well I did) one click more compression makes too much difference & until you find a happy medium you’re always going one click up or one click down. The reason this happens is the VFR doesn’t load the front end much at all so you set compression soft to help load the front yet you hit a big bump & there is too much fork travel. The brakes aren’t really any better than the standard VFR brakes as far as callipers & clamping force, the big improvement is fork compression valving. This with the higher rigidity of USD forks (less flex) is what improves braking over the standard forks. R1 forks are cutting edge for their price point & from 04 till 08 haven’t changed that much internally, there very easy to setup for the VFR & there remote rebound/compression adjustments are very precise. The major effect I notice changing to these forks was being able to change direction close to full lean angle mid corner without the bike becoming unsettled at all. That is a major safety improvement if there is a rock etc you didn’t see mid corner. The feel I obtain with these forks I couldn't with standard is the front end bobing up & down as it goes over bumps, but it's only the fork movement I'm feeling the front end stays more or less at the same height, the wheel is following the road surface sending great feed back through the bars. The other added advantage was the radial brakes which can be used to their full because the R1 forks compression is so good & the same rigidity as the RC51 forks. CBR1000RR forks are more or less the same as the R1 but I can only comment on the Ohlins cartridge aspect because I haven’t ridden a VFR with modified standard valving. As mentioned the direction Ohlins has gone with really only 30mm valving available now is sportbike tech which place extreme loads on the front end, which the VFR doesn’t. This type of valving design is high stability under brakes, unfortunately I found due to the VFR not loading the front end like a sportbike I couldn’t gain the feel I prefer form them & my suspension tech did try a number of modifications to try to attain the feel I like. The front end mid corner due to unloading to quickly felt flighty & didn’t matter what rebound remote adjustment I tried on the fly I just didn’t like that valving on the VFR. On my CBR1000RR is another storey there outstanding. The Ohlins (CBR1000RR) FGRT forks I have come with 25mm cartridges (the newer model now has 30mm) & these suit the VFR much better & I now feel there as good if not better than my old R1 setup. The bottom line is response time as you need your forks to keep that contact patch at all times which is a major ask with all the variable road conditions. Remote adjustment rebound/compression on the fly with forks that are more ridged so less heat & wear internal components is everything when the flow rate of fork oil is what creates the response you need to keep that front wheel planted at all times. Just think how your standard forks feel straight after an oil change & then think about keeping that oil in that condition for a longer period & having adjustment to prolong the response as the oil starts to contaminate. Since installing the first USD upgrade (RC51) I haven't had a front end slide, not once, yet with standard forks even with valving & correct springs addressed I had many a slide, that is not in gravel or very lose surface as no tyre can grip if what it's griping to moves. Just for the record my riding style is fast into a corner less throttle out due to lean angle so I need to trust the front end, it's not always the fastest way around a corner but it's what I enjoy the most. Hope I haven’t bored anybody with my speel.
    1 point
  4. I see Roy's (zRoyZ) chimed in, so here's where the first USD coversion he did on his VTEC ended up when he sold the bike: Here's the spec sheet for the original VFR1 http://www.vfrdiscus...pic/38679-vfr1/ Pretty much the whole thing went in as is, though there was some fiddling with moving oil cooler, shaving the inner fairing, moving cables, pipes etc Is it worth it? Let's face it any improvement on the stock suspension and brakes has to be worth every cent - both are critical in keeping you out of trouble and as anyone with any sense will tell you, the only two things the last and best 750s need are decent brakes and suspension. The F4i swap - adjustable suspension, much better brakes - is one of the easier and cheaper options, uses Honda parts (so no faffing about with different axle specs, disc spacing, wheels, wheel bearing sizes) and will make a helluva difference. Is it worth spending so much on a USD set up on a bike this old? In my view the question answers itself - the people who do this sort of thing aren't about to sell their bike so resale figures are irrelevant. In the end it comes down to turning a great bike into a fantastic one. As I said to Roy when I first rode mine with the R1 front, it feels like I've suddenly got 2-3 seconds extra per corner - the $$$ spent automatically justifies itself. The brakes are brilliant, but the irony is that cos the handling is so good I use them less than I did on the OEM set up. It steers much quicker yet is utterly stable (no hands-off headshakes at any speed) and it doesn't chew front tyres anywhere near as much. It will keep up with any modern sports bike in the twisties - or would if I wasn't such a pi$$-poor rider. And it looks mint
    1 point
  5. I tossed a set of vtr (firestorm/Shawk) forks in my 96 4th gen. They have been massaged by my suspension guy, and are running rc51 brakes (straight bolt on). That and a penske out back make it great for everything including track days. The Shawk forks are cheap, use the stock triple, and with the vtr axle and spacers uses the stock front wheel. I can't see more bang for the buck.
    1 point
  6. You can't keep the link brakes with F4i forks because the LHS 6th gen caliper mount has the link brake mastercylinder for rear brake & the mount on that fork leg for that system is completely different, you can't really use the 6th gen lower with the F4i because of the compression adjustment adjuster is on the lower F4i fork leg & the reason to upgrade the 6th gen forks with F4i is to gain remote rebound/compression adjustment they have & the 6th gen doesn't. To keep the link brakes & improve the standard forks there are kits aval to add rebound remote adjustment but honestly if you get your 6th gen forks valving & sring rate set up well the only real worth while upgrade is USD forks. Bellow is my 6th gen with CBR1000RR forks, I have sice installed my Ohlins CBR1000RR forks because the 25mm valving they have suits it better than the 30mm Ohlins cartridge kit in the forks in picture (the forks in picture are now installed on my CBR1000RR as the 30mm cartridges suit that bike better). The difference they make with handling & braking is like drinking your fav beer ice cold to the standard forks drinking it boiling hot. These are Ohlins forks on my CBR that are now on above & above now on CBR, the reason for swap is the 30mm valving is for heavy braking & high front end loading, the VFR doesn't load the front end anywhere near as much as a sportbike.
    1 point
  7. Bellow is my old track bike 4th gen with 6th gen front end, I only used them because I had them from my 6th gen when it was upgraded to USD forks. Due to the LHS fork leg needs the link brake mastercylinder setup there not a good swap, I just filled the master cylinder & sealed it off. Your better off using F4i forks which have the bonus of rebound/compression adjustment. The difference from the standard forks & brakes was worth the change 100 times over & needed it for the track. Bellow is F4i front end I fitted to friends bike, parts were: F4i forks, F4i calipers, F4i master cylinder, F4i guard, 6th gen triple clamps, 6th gen clipons, 6th gen wheel, 6th gen rotors, 6th gen axle.
    1 point
  8. On my 02 street Vtec I had Aftershocks re-valve & re-spring my stock forks and have run them Hard for over 50k miles with very good results! Actually they didn't feel that good until I balanced the rear Ohlins with the correct spring, then entire bike was transformed! Only downside is No adjust-ability On my 04 Vtec Track bike I installed a full F4i front end w/calipers and radial M/C, new shim stack for stock Rebound valve and changed to large port Showa Compression valves w/new shim stack. Felt Great and fully adjustable. W/ F4i forks you can use stock VFR wheel/Rotors or F4 wheel & stock rotors or F4i wheel and rotors. I used a stock 06 Vtec fender on teh F4i forks, only 4 of the 6 mounts bolts work, but that's plenty. BR
    1 point
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