Stumped! Differences in Clutch packs 98-99 and 00-01

[ariesblade]

I own a '00 5th gen.

 

Okay so i have done a bit too much reading and now i have started to completely confuse myself, and a little lost. I am experiencing some weird clutch work similar to this video but not as bad. It seems to happen more often when the engine (and thus the clutch pack) is cold. Once it warms up its practically gone:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_k7bY-z2eE

 

Now i figured it would be good to open up the crankcase and have look. Before i do so I want to order in parts so i dont get stuck halfway through a job (i live in an appartment so i gotta finish what i start) I have already ordered new springs as i suspect they havent been touched by previous owners. And now when ordering clutch friction plates i need to know which one to get. There is a difference in # plates, and the exclusion of the friction spring in the 00-01. Does anyone have a part number for lets say EBC or ferodo (or another good brand alternative) for the '00 model. Because i dont know if its just the difference in number of plates, or if theres also a difference in thickness. (cant find any material for that)

 

For Reference, this one is yanked out of the service manual.

 

Hope someone can clarify and put this confusion to bed for me 😄

 

PS: I do not know if this is relevant, but the first few mm of clutch lever pull seem to be very 'loose', kinda feels like a cable lever that has not been adjusted in a while (clutch fluid was done at the start of this year)

 

[daved]

Have you checked and cleaned the 'lifter rod' shown in the above diagram? it's been know to cause clutch problems if dirty/corroded.

It can be pulled out from the left-hand side of the bike, just need to remove the clutch slave cylinder 

[ariesblade]

UPDATE:
 

I have done some digging further. away from topics but simply at the plate manufacturers. This is what i found. Holy god its starting to get confusing reading this for errors too. Im gonna try to make this as extensive and easy to read as possible. Hopefully avoid someone else's confusion. If you have any comments about the format or something i missed please let me know.

 

There are indeed differences between clutchplate kits (if the plates themselves actually differ, i do not know. but they have completely different product numbers so i would assume so)

 

Honda OEM: In the exploded view it shows 3 different numbers for the friction plates. Of which #7 and #20 have identical part numbers, but #8 IS a different plate.This one goes in first when replacing. However between subgens these partnumbers are not the same, and so assumed incompatible.

98-99 plates:

#7 and #20 22201KM4000

#8 22202ML4611

 

I am not 100% about the 00-01 plates as the service manual states that most friction plates are the same. and are referred simply as Clutch disks (Brown) and Clutch Disks (blue). Referring that the Outer most friction discs (first and last during installation) are labeled as Brown, and the middle pack are labeled as blue.

00-01 plates:

#7 and #20 22201MASE00

#8 22201MAE000

 

 

Ferodo: They are the only ones so far, (that i have found) that make a kit for each sub gen of the 5th. The screenshot has been grabbed from this source. They use the same springset, but the plate kits differ

98-99 kit: FCD1125

00-01 kit: FCD0175

 

 

Next we have EBC. They make a kit for both subgens but i cannot find any supplier that provides the 00-01. The 98-99 kit is available. Would they work? idk not keen to test out. But there is no mention of compatability.

98-99 kit: CKF1206

00-01 kit: CK1253

 

 

Hopefully i was able to clear some things up for everyone and best of luck figuring this out 😄

[ariesblade]

16 minutes ago, daved said:

Have you checked and cleaned the 'lifter rod' shown in the above diagram? it's been know to cause clutch problems if dirty/corroded.

It can be pulled out from the left-hand side of the bike, just need to remove the clutch slave cylinder 

I have not. When it comes to pulling apart the clutch for inspection. I will definitely give it a whirl. Do you know of any how-to's on here? or is it simply undo bolts, pull off, pull out the lifter rod. Thanks in advance!

[daved]

9 hours ago, ariesblade said:

I have not. When it comes to pulling apart the clutch for inspection. I will definitely give it a whirl. Do you know of any how-to's on here? or is it simply undo bolts, pull off, pull out the lifter rod. Thanks in advance!

 

I don't know of any how-tos on here, but it's quite simple to unbolt the slave cylinder (make sure you restrain the piston somehow, otherwise it will slowly creep all the way out) and check the rod.

Lifted from another site:

"If we look at clutch slip then there are a few things which might be going wrong -

..

2. Corroded push rod. This is quite a common problem and an easy fix. A symptom of this problem is that slip is prominent at the start of the ride and then goes away during the ride, but comes back again when you jump back on the bike a week or two later. The push rod is easy to check and easy to fix, just remove the clutch slave, remove the transfer rod, clean up any corrosion, lubricate the rod and reassemble (a new gasket might be needed)."

[raYzerman]

I think you'll find the different plates are simply slight differences in thickness.... should still work, just potentially a difference in slave cylinder travel/lever position (adjustable).  Were perhaps the slaves of different piston diameter/different master cylinders..... i.e., a larger bore slave would travel less and have less effort.........

I guess the only real way to do it is order the correct (OEM) parts for the model in question.

 

Note from my experience with the clutch rod.... pull out from the left side, clean it up, light film of grease, but a generous amount of grease on the right end made a difference for me (wouldn't seat properly when inserted dry).

[ariesblade]

Alright well i'll definitely give that a try when i open things up. Any specific type of grease i should use?

[Mohawk]

Check the lifter rod first. You can remove the slave cylinder on left side, remember to use a G-clamp to hold the slave cylinder in place or compress it back. There is a seating spring inside it if left loose it will pop out. Also change the clutch fluid as it rarely gets changed !   If you are feeling tidy, remove the front sprocket cover and clean away any chain lube & accumulated dirt. 

[raYzerman]

Use any grease you have handy.....

I made an assumption you had already done the usual fluid flush and bleed, etc.  You should do all that before considering a new clutch pack...... it might be that simple.

Check that brass bushing in the clutch lever also, maybe old worn oval/scored.......

[ariesblade]

fluid flush and bleeding was done at the start of this year. as stated in the original post 😄 and about 2 months ago the lever was replaced (there was a lot of up and down movement on the clutch lever. This one was replaced an dthat is now gone 🙂

[ariesblade]

I have both ball-bearing grease and copper grease. Any preference between the two?

[Av8r]

Looking at the posting date I’m probably too late with this reply but do not use copper “grease” to lubricate anything use bearing grease, moly grease, lithium grease, silicon grease.
Copper “grease” is useful to stop things sticking/corroding together like the rear wheel and hub but it’s not a lubricant and if used as such like on brake calliper slider pins it’ll dry up and actually inhibit movement.

[ariesblade]

Thanks for the info. Still been very busy with work so have not gotten to it yet! Its not too late!