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Engine cooling


Redbike

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Hi
How does the normal cooling process work with this 1200F model2010?

After having RC36 and RC46 for 10+ years my new bike starts the fan much earlier.

Actually we have 15C outside and ridding alone on local roads and a bit highway (no city use or traffic jam) when driving for 3-10min in a village the fan would start, specially when I stop at a junction or at the gate when I got home.

This behaviour is the same if riding with my friend (+90kg)

My RC46 had side panels but could do more even in the summer. How will the big VFR12 works in hot days?

 

I got the bike right now from the Honda dealer shop after oil, filter and coolant change. I have driven it just 300km, has not to much experience with it.

The Tempr. bar display shows 2-3 marks bellow red when driving at least 80km/h. I shows 2 marks bellow when the fan starts.

This morning I checked the temperature of the coolant pie on the left side connecting to the water pump and also the radiator with a laser termometer.

I found in 2-3 minutes in warm up the pipe is already 60C and the right upper side of the radiator is also warming.

Is it normal?

I read in the service manual the thermostat should start to open to the radiator at 80C, not before.

But I know, an early thermostat should only expand the warming time but not to generate more heat.

 

Bit problem could be, the bike is stock but the radiator shows some wear/deformations on part of the lamella.

Worth the open them a bit with a thiny flat screw driver?

How to clean it in smooth way?

(I asked the shop, but they couldn't do too much)

 

How can I get access to check the coolant level in the reverse tank?

 

Thank you for your advices!

Peter

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Peter, I had exactly the same questions when I've got mine 10 months ago. Answer was 'she is a hot bitch'
As long as you got 2or3 bars its all good. I found riding anything below 80km/h despite the ambient temperature the fan is kick in all the time, thats it. Also discover that summer riding or anything above 22C is hell on 2 wheels. Not to mention your right foot. I've read guys melting their right boot. I'm in constant work in progress to improove the right foot heatshield.  In 30-35+ celsius its unrideable. Frame also get melting hot. No riding with shorts thats for sure even for a quicky..
The engine is running hot thats is how its made and its perfectly normal. I was worried my bike might be overheating but thats not the case. They all do that. I dont think even if you put brand new radiotor any improvments will happened.

As for the coolant tank its under this plastic cover /just pull it from the top/
123.JPG

 

If not sure, fill it the brim. Next time she run , she will puke the excesive off and you're good

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  • Member Contributer

Interesting. 6 years and 20k miles and I've never experienced any of this with my 1200.

 

And yes, I know we don't get 30-35 deg here very often, but we do get it.

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I can relate to the fan coming on all the time, but i'v never had issues with melted boots or trouble riding in 25-30 degerees, even at a track?
 Sounds like your bike is running completely as it should Redbike. You would know if you had an actual issue with your cooling system, as people said she is a hot bitch, it would very quickly overheat and probably shut itself off if your RAD was somehow malfunctioning. 

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  • Member Contributer

Allen Millyard had a similar problem with heat, his solution is in this V10 Viper motorcycle, it’ll cool the radiate hear down to some extent 

 

 

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I checked the radiator is also warming up so early when the waterpump hoses are just 50C. When they get to 60C the radiator is full surface warm too. Its cap   corner is warming from 30C.

I read in the manual the thermostat should open from 80C, not earlier.

When looking the radiator I was not happy. Is it a must to replace?  Its middle and lower zones are the weakest.IMG_20211010_202926.thumb.jpg.3de4b1fec0409adc10358fbe9c987baa.jpg

IMG_20211011_115740.jpg

IMG_20211011_115730.jpg

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I admit it look rough but people install mesh guards that give the same effect, no?
Also if the thermostat is stuck open wouldnt that cause slow warm up time and running cooler causing the bike not to reach working temp /not good as well/ but not overheating as you're worried about.
I'll tell you how the temp gauge is acting on mine. If its above 20C or the speed is below 100kmh it always shows 3 bars.
With speeds arround 140-150 /easy on the throttle/ it drop to 2bars but only below 20C
I've read post on the fb fan page about overheating, one guy says that for 6 years and riding in 45C temps he never seen 4 bars. Pretty much means if you get 4 bars you have problem.

Also do you have the automatic or manual bike?
Radiators for both are different , the DCT bike seems to have bigger one , probably there is a reason behind .
New radiator is expensive. Specialy OEM one. Only found aftermarket for manual bike arround 300$ and DCT on ebay for 500

75442891_842932039457088_7758866713805848576_n.jpg

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Thank you for your comment.
My bike is manual.

 

This morning I checked the warm up process from 8C again and scanned some point on the bike with thermometer.
I found the the big black water hoses from the water pump are getting warm pretty parallel. Also the left upper corner of the radiator is warming too.

Around 60C the thermostat seems to open and the radiator gets hot, as well.

I read the thermostat should only open from 84C.

The fan is on times to time when cruising on the streets today in the city in 10C, as well.

 

I tried to straighten the lamelas, but cant work. 50% deformed. 20% destroyed.

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Rather than buy another radiator I’d get that one recored, cost should be under £250 depending on what you need done 

 

Either way I’d call this company and see what they say https://www.aaronradiator.co.uk/motorcycle/ …their work is pressure tested and warranted for 12 months 

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On 10/14/2021 at 8:53 AM, ggtod said:

I admit it look rough but people install mesh guards that give the same effect, no?
Also if the thermostat is stuck open wouldnt that cause slow warm up time and running cooler causing the bike not to reach working temp /not good as well/ but not overheating as you're worried about.
I'll tell you how the temp gauge is acting on mine. If its above 20C or the speed is below 100kmh it always shows 3 bars.
With speeds arround 140-150 /easy on the throttle/ it drop to 2bars but only below 20C
I've read post on the fb fan page about overheating, one guy says that for 6 years and riding in 45C temps he never seen 4 bars. Pretty much means if you get 4 bars you have problem.

Also do you have the automatic or manual bike?
Radiators for both are different , the DCT bike seems to have bigger one , probably there is a reason behind .
New radiator is expensive. Specialy OEM one. Only found aftermarket for manual bike arround 300$ and DCT on ebay for 500

75442891_842932039457088_7758866713805848576_n.jpg

Hi,

Thanks for the hints.
Could it be possible to install the DCT radiator on the manual bike?
I saw the inner lower cowl should be also replaced for the DCT variant, which has bigger window and also a protection net.

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  • Member Contributer

The standard radiator for the manual bike is fine for the engine. I think you have answered your own question. 20% of your radiator is damaged and air cannot cool it. There will be a problem next summer.

I have ridden mine in 38 Degree heat, and it did not overheat. The fairing does deflect the worst of the heat away from your boots. I've ridden many Bikes far worse than this one in hot countries.

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 2 weeks later...

Hi,
The end of the story at the Honda dealer: their opinion is "this bike has so big motor it needs a bit higher RPM to run the coolant around. At 3000rpm when cruising in the village will be to low and not enough for the pump to circulate the hot fluid through the radiator. Therefore it is normal that the fans will run times to time even in 10 C° ambient when the speed is only 50km/h".

Heavily damaged radiator lamellas in 20% and side bent or even closed lamellas in 50% are still ok in their check.
Also how the radiator is warming together with the motor already from 55C° they defined as normal operation. They commented "my complain is not valid since the bike has two cycle cooling system so it is not a problem that the radiator gets warm before the thermostat should open at 80C°". 

I graduated at the technical university but it is a bit of high science for me.

My opinion is that the engine should warm up alone till the thermostat opens at 80C° and this process can be monitored at the coolant pump hoses and on the radiator front surface with thermo camera, too. What I did myself.

Earlier the radiator can get warm coolant only through the air bleeding hose, but it will only warm up the radiator cap region. This effect I could also see from lower temperature stages.

 

But to get running the engine on 95C°cooling system in this early winter condition makes me worried about how it will operate in +35C° next summer?
Or should not be a problem?
I would not like to boil the engine or stop the bike there while ordering a spare part(radiator) and get an appointment at a private service (+2 months) who are willing to replace it.

I also understand but cannot admit the opinion of the Honda dealer, who sold the bike with full maintained+1 year guarantee for me what was their marketing item but will not contain any high cost repair tasks. I took the bike there now 3th time for 2-2 weeks with service complains like cooling, rear suspension, breaks and bearings. But they made a small effort to repair any.

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On 10/14/2021 at 8:53 AM, ggtod said:

I admit it look rough but people install mesh guards that give the same effect, no?
Also if the thermostat is stuck open wouldnt that cause slow warm up time and running cooler causing the bike not to reach working temp /not good as well/ but not overheating as you're worried about.
I'll tell you how the temp gauge is acting on mine. If its above 20C or the speed is below 100kmh it always shows 3 bars.
With speeds arround 140-150 /easy on the throttle/ it drop to 2bars but only below 20C
I've read post on the fb fan page about overheating, one guy says that for 6 years and riding in 45C temps he never seen 4 bars. Pretty much means if you get 4 bars you have problem.

Also do you have the automatic or manual bike?
Radiators for both are different , the DCT bike seems to have bigger one , probably there is a reason behind .
New radiator is expensive. Specialy OEM one. Only found aftermarket for manual bike arround 300$ and DCT on ebay for 500

75442891_842932039457088_7758866713805848576_n.jpg

Hi,
Did you have these radiators to replace the old on in your bike?  Did if work fine?
If I am right the bike on the picture is DCT...
Does it have beside the bigger radiator and its different inner plastic frame around also different coolant hoses and mounting parts?
The fixation points I see on the top side are compatible between the manual and the DCT versions?
Or should I consider also to replace some of them if upgrading to DCT radiator in my manual bike?

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  • Member Contributer

Many folks complain about dealers as they are usually in business to turn profits, and don't offer free repairs unless absolutely necessary. Either way, I would replace the radiator, either one will work, but the DCT version will require a DCT cowl, or modifying the original. There looks to be inefficient flow through your radiator, which is how they exchange heat with the air (passing through them). A screen door will have good airflow with a summer breeze, unless it's caked with mud... I would push them to at least give you a discount on a new radiator, as I have never seen one that bad. Maybe the previous owner lived on a gravel road. You could also check the water pump impeller just to make sure nothing is wrong with it. Check/replace thermostat if needed, and replace the coolant with proper type and mixture. I used a mighty-vac to empty the remote reservoir as I did not want to take off the swingarm as the manual suggests.  Also verify correct fan operation. 

 

My bike runs at 3 bars on days I can wear my summer mesh suit, and at 2 bars on days when I need my winter suit - riding, not idling in traffic. I know that's not scientific, but Honda does a really good job of engineering most of the time, and heat / overheating is not at all a common issue on these bikes, if they are in good running order. I beat on mine hot-lapping priest grade in 100+ degree weather going up the 1200' climb in ~2 miles and coming down the short steep route ~1 mile, 3 times in a row with no issues, except overheated tires. The VFR1200 has the best heat management of any sporty bike I have ever ridden, so something is amiss, and the radiator seems like the most likely culprit.

 

A radiator guard is also a good idea, as I did get a rock through mine, causing me to bail on a 3 day ride. The guards are just under $100.

 

Hope you get it sorted, and the dealer steps up and does what is right, but I wouldn't hold my breath. :sad:

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Yes my bike is a DCT and the radiator is bigger vs. manual. Pictures is from the web , example just to proove that. Hoses location seems the same, but not the attach points for the fans and plastic. If I was you, I'll spare the trouble with the plastics, I'll just replace the rad with standard for your bike and not worried about.

31 minutes ago, RC1237V said:

My bike runs at 3 bars on days I can wear my summer mesh suit, and at 2 bars on days when I need my winter suit

Same here! After reading how that temp gauge act, I think thats the norm.

 

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Thank you for your comments.
The bike in now back form the dealer. The lubricated the rear suspension preloaded, what was blocked but did not do more. After discussing there with them their next trials to do/I should do to check the cooling process and quality I asked them: look, should I wait till next summer and try to overheat? When it is in red or boiling or the fan motor is damaged to to constant running in the summer, what should I do? Call some trailer or leave the bike on the road? Or just ride between my home and the dealer on this short highway? Who will repair the engine? I forced the service guy at least once to come down with me and look that radiator with his mobile light.
I think it was the first time he really did it.
I told him, I think I will have to do my own repair  alone, however I got +1 year guarantee last month when I bought this bike here. The also sold it with Honda inspection.

I read up the section from the repair manual, where Honda suggested if the radiator is 20% bad , replace it.
Then he went to his boss and they said, yes we should go in the direction to replace a radiator.

It did not mean, they will do it. I should order the radiator for online shop, what will be cheaper and come back when I have it. They could give me some support.

 

About the thermostat, what  they checked only via the OBD, they found ok. However I looked with thermometer the radiator gets also warm 55-60C° parallel to the hoses at the pump how they warm up. I  read again the manual, the thermostat should start to open 80-84C°. At 95C°its lifting should be 8mm so to open good flow.  Thy did not checked these parameters.
They only looked, the OBD showed 98C°when the fan started and could cool back till 95C° idling the bike in the service, what they found ok.

 

I told them, it is only part of the function if the fan runs well and it was only a idle RPM process when the engine generate low heat. On the other side it is normal to warm up the engine to fan operation in the garage.

But when driving on the road in this early winter time the heat transfer should be more sufficient. If the radiator lamella is closed and can not transfer heat, or the coolant system is closed and works with high pressure drop, or a weak pump, or a not tight cap or finally a semi closed thermostat could weaken the cooling system.
But unfortunately to check all these in  today digital world is too much to ask.
I hope if I buy a new cooler, it will solve this topic.

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Unfortunately, buying a warrantee nowadays is not what it used to be. I guess their outlook is that if the bike does not overheat per se, they do not need to replace the radiator. But that will also let you know how they might react to a bigger problem. Maybe ask them specifically what the warranty does cover, and get it in writing. 

 

For piece of mind, I would change the radiator as that one looks pretty beat. If they give you parts at cost, or free/discounted labor, I would consider it a win at this point. Inspect the other components as well, then enjoy the bike for years to come!

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