Member Contributer bmart Posted March 1 Author Member Contributer Share Posted March 1 I'm not gaslighting you, whatever that is. I'm not hip. ~330mm is (jammed) in there, but the ass end is WAY up in the air. If it wasn't jammed...the ass end is still way in the air. Whatever the swingarm hits is irrelevant. Make sense? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweeper Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 22 hours ago, MBrane said: IME the first things to interfere with swingarm down travel is the dogbone against the exhaust (varies by what type of pipe), and the chain guard mount boss against the L peg mount. The ONLY thing that can change ride height other than major mods to the cushion or swing arm linkage mounts or the swingarm pivot (highly unlikely) is the shock, and the linkage itself. I once bought a 4th gen track bike project from a member here, and in the pile of parts was a variety of traingles, and dogbones from many different Hondas. Some appeared to be identical, but if fact were slightly different. The nature of the linkage on the the VFR is it takes very little to make a large difference in ride height. I would double check all your bolt to bolt measurements on the linkage to be sure. Without going out to study it, this is where my mind went on this. Maybe try swapping the lower linkage from one bike to the other? Not a huge amount of work to eliminate those parts from contention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Captain 80s Posted March 1 Member Contributer Share Posted March 1 14 hours ago, bmart said: I'm not gaslighting you, whatever that is. I'm not hip. ~330mm is (jammed) in there, but the ass end is WAY up in the air. If it wasn't jammed...the ass end is still way in the air. Whatever the swingarm hits is irrelevant. Make sense? Holy shit. I am so sorry. I have been interpreting the problem completely backwards and am guilty of not realizing what I'm reading. I need to take my own advice and slow down before responding. I'm an ASS. So you are complaining about realizing too much ride height with a shock length setting that is too long to be easily installed? I am REALLY confused now, and I don't have anything to offer. I have muddied the waters too much, and again I apologize. Captain 80s out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Presson Posted March 1 Member Contributer Share Posted March 1 Surely it has to be the lower linkage, all other parts being equal. The only other possibility would be a rear subframe that has been damaged and repaired at a slightly different angle - enough to give different measurements to the axle. But you said getting the 330 length into position was a bi*@h which brings us back to the dogbone and link plates.....? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer bmart Posted March 1 Author Member Contributer Share Posted March 1 Thanks for the input, guys. Here's where I'm at. 330mm was nearly impossible to get in. I may have backed off 1/2 mm but it took force to get the plates/bolts in. Changing the length of the shock will allow easier install in that regard, but does not change the lack of clearance to the cat, for instance, as all of that is driven by the plates...unless the cat is moved/lowered. The bike had ~3k miles on it, so unless it was a visually perfect repair, I think everything was factory when I bought it. It was an "I know what I got" seller...but he owned Harley's, so I expected that! Because at 330mm (same a '98) the aSS end is way up there, part(s) have to be different. I have no way to easily compare them without removing them from both bikes, so I took the tack of p/n research. Some p/ns had changed, but the same ones (for parts listed in prior posts-singarm, frame, linkage, dogbone, centerstand, etc.) fit both bikes outside of the actual shock p/n which is different. I can't know beyond that unless someone else posts some info about theirs...and I heard only crickets. I suspect that the area where the top of the shock mounts to extends slightly further down on the '00. that would cause trouble getting the 330mm shock in and raise everything...but I'm making that up. There are quite a few parts that could have changed to cause this symptom. So...I sucked it up and got my Captain big boy pants on and shortened the shock 1.5 turns, so 1.5 mm, which turned into a no weight (on centerstand) measurement change of 2-3 mm. I expected more or I would have shortened the shock more. (CB-1 is 3-4 mm per 1mm change in shock length, for reference.) Again...I wish folks that know would chime in. I may have to do that one more time, but I'm going to ride it as is (and set warm sag properly) and see what happens. Stay tuned or tune out. It's up to you. 🙂 1998 at 330mm. Plenty of room and easy to install. 2000 problem with clearance, Clarence 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fabio222 Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 On 2/28/2024 at 10:40 PM, Captain 80s said: Have you read any more than the current page of posts? Nope I haven't. I have a small child to raise, a job to hold down, a house to run, bikes to maintain, so I don't get to forensically analyse every thread. Did I break a rule or something??? You barked at someone else for not having read back through loads of pages too, seems you've an issue with that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Captain 80s Posted March 2 Member Contributer Share Posted March 2 44 minutes ago, fabio222 said: Nope I haven't. I have a small child to raise, a job to hold down, a house to run, bikes to maintain, so I don't get to forensically analyse every thread. Did I break a rule or something??? You barked at someone else for not having read back through loads of pages too, seems you've an issue with that? Yep. Seems like I do. Even pissed at myself. 9 hours ago, Captain 80s said: Holy shit. I am so sorry. I have been interpreting the problem completely backwards and am guilty of not realizing what I'm reading. I need to take my own advice and slow down before responding. I'm an ASS. So you are complaining about realizing too much ride height with a shock length setting that is too long to be easily installed? I am REALLY confused now, and I don't have anything to offer. I have muddied the waters too much, and again I apologize. Captain 80s out. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer bmart Posted March 2 Author Member Contributer Share Posted March 2 1 hour ago, fabio222 said: Nope I haven't. I have a small child to raise, a job to hold down, a house to run, bikes to maintain, so I don't get to forensically analyse every thread. Did I break a rule or something??? You barked at someone else for not having read back through loads of pages too, seems you've an issue with that? ha ha! I think that this forum, and others, seem like our "babies." A lot of time goes into them from frequent posters with many more single time visitors (not you) barking about the completeness and timeliness of free answers. It isn't...equal in that regard. I get a lot from this site, so I try to give a lot...and like most of us, don't take offense if at all possible. People are what they are...when they are. You never know what is going on in someone's life or in their day. 🙂 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer JZH Posted March 2 Member Contributer Share Posted March 2 (A little pedantry to lighten the mood: flipping the eccentric on a 5th gen would drop the ride height considerably; unlike the 3rd-4th gens, the 5th gen's OEM orientation is already with the axle in the bottom of the arc.) (Not that I am suggesting this as a solution to a too-high ride height! Something appears to be wrong, and changing the ride height in this way could just make the other things worse.) Ciao, JZH 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer bmart Posted March 2 Author Member Contributer Share Posted March 2 Keep in mind how I got into this mess. Hate red, in general, on anything. VFRs are mostly red...so my tag is UGLYRED. I mean my hatred. lol An ex-riding buddy sent me the link to an available yellow. I planned to just swap bodywork and get on with life. Then I thought I'd swap my nice goodies onto old yeller with far fewer miles and keep only that. Then I decided I maybe would keep both and started setting up the yellow bike. I wanted it the same as the red bike as that is sublime to ride, but...found parts that had small differences, and they've added up. Sargent seat on red got reformed to my specs for $80 from Sargent a few years back. I tried to send them yellow (came from a lovely lister) for the identical treatment but they wanted over $300 + S&H both ways...so it isn't as comfy and my body isn't angled the same as red. I couldn't find Helibars, so I bought Belarus bar risers (and found Helis later...they're still in the box). They're lovely items, but the angle is quite different and they don't allow the levers to tilt down to the proper angle. My joints are starting to complain now... If I was going to keep it, it needed suspenders bigtime. From the aftermarket, the shocks shown are the same. I cheaped out on a new Bitubo and wish I hadn't. I'm pining for another Penske... Similar story on the forks. I should have sent them to Thermosman but instead tried a friend's guy who was more local. Thermosman set up my forks as a one off and they are superb. The yellow ones have a kit in them and they're better than stock...but it took ~5 trips 90 minutes away each to keep bringing them back to "fix" what was done to them. Riding it isn't bad, but it is nothing like red. I keep taking small bites to get it close enough, but that isn't free on time or money and at some point, I'll accept my fate with it or get rid of it. For the cam in the back, they're both set up the same now, with a clockwise change loosening the chain. I have been looking for "why" they're different, just to understand. I've now moved onto getting it set up well enough or not. Life is going by. To paraphrase Jean Luc, a day comes when you realize there are far fewer days ahead than behind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer St. Stephen Posted March 2 Member Contributer Share Posted March 2 On 2/29/2024 at 7:33 PM, bmart said: I'm not gaslighting you, whatever that is. I'm not hip. "Gaslight" directed by George Cukor in 1944 and starring Ingrid Bergman and Charles Boyer. Basically the bad guy husband in the 1880's in London tries to drive his wife crazy, including turning down the gaslights and then pretending nothing was wrong. Not a bad film for its era. I'm pretty sure this key bit of information will solve your rear shock issue immediately! 😎 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer MBrane Posted March 3 Member Contributer Share Posted March 3 From what I can see in the pics looks to me like the cat is to blame for shock length issue. That thing is huge. Never had a 2000+ out of 4 VFRs so no personal experience there. That doesn't explain the ride height though. If that was the case it should be less than the 98. Something doesn't add up. I would be measuring things down to the MM to figure it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer bmart Posted March 4 Author Member Contributer Share Posted March 4 While there is little or no room between the cat and the shock mount...it isn't keeping it from moving more. The plates seem to be the limiter. I could be wrong. Yellow shock is 327-328 mm now. I did get out for a ride today after the adjustments mentioned in prior posts. I also set the shock compression damping (high and low) to 10 out (recommended) from 9 out (my test). It still isn't quite like red, but it is miles better. Front sag is 26/34. Rear sag is 10/30. More than adequate. (Red is 26/33 front and ~31mm rider sag on the shock.) For now, D-U-N done. Hoping I can dig it by the rally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Captain 80s Posted March 4 Member Contributer Share Posted March 4 I am still VERY confused. Why are you worried about getting more shock length (or worried about why you couldn't install @ 330mm, I guess) when your ride height is already way more than you want? Why aren't you just adjusting the length down to get where you want? If when the stock shock is installed and Honda was ok with the linkage to exhaust clearance, won't shortening your shock to get the ride height you desire, also improve the linkage to exhaust clearance? "Because at 330mm (same a '98) the aSS end is way up there, part(s) have to be different." So some part of the rear on a 2000 is different than the 98. Adjust the shock length down to achieve the ride height you want and be done. I don't see what is preventing you from doing that. On that note, what do the two stock shocks you removed measure at? Before I thought you weren't able to get enough length, because everything was maxed out, to get the rear up where you wanted. And then when I re-read and realized it was the opposite, I'm not sure what the road block is. I must be missing, or misinterpreting, a very big chunk of info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer bmart Posted March 4 Author Member Contributer Share Posted March 4 30 minutes ago, Captain 80s said: I am still VERY confused. Why are you worried about getting more shock length (or worried about why you couldn't install @ 330mm, I guess) when your ride height is already way more than you want? Why aren't you just adjusting the length down to get where you want? If when the stock shock is installed and Honda was ok with the linkage to exhaust clearance, won't shortening your shock to get the ride height you desire, also improve the linkage to exhaust clearance? "Because at 330mm (same a '98) the aSS end is way up there, part(s) have to be different." So some part of the rear on a 2000 is different than the 98. Adjust the shock length down to achieve the ride height you want and be done. I don't see what is preventing you from doing that. On that note, what do the two stock shocks you removed measure at? Before I thought you weren't able to get enough length, because everything was maxed out, to get the rear up where you wanted. And then when I re-read and realized it was the opposite, I'm not sure what the road block is. I must be missing, or misinterpreting, a very big chunk of info. I'll try! Measuring ride height (not sag) should have happened early, but it didn't. I had no idea to even think that it would be different. This falls on me. Big fat fail. Once that critical step was skipped, it was a rabbit hole. Currently, rear ride height is 4.5mm higher than VFR98. I may address that when my 27mm open end wrench comes. It is a PITA with a giant adjustable. I was after 330mm long shock when I should have been on ride height. I am adjusting it shorter to get what I want. I expected ~4mm actual ride height change from 1mm of shock length change. that was WAY off from my CB-1 info. It is nearly 1:1, it seems. I adjust only 1.5mm so I got ~2mm at the rear. It was enough to get past the crappy feel of having it TOO high. Measuring the two OEM shocks. I've done that. both 325mm. It seems that the '00 must allow for only 1-3mm, not 5mm that the '98 allows...and works best at. You are correct. Goal is to set the same ride height, which I will done when I have the 27mm wrench, to avoid complete shock removal. Ignoring ride height and focusing on sag and shock length was a big failure on my part. I just wish someone who has been through this chimed in in the last year or so...It would have saved me a lot of time and money. It truly wasn't bad to ride today. I want to get some miles in before making any changes. It was truly sucky before this. As you know...enough to sell it. Never give up! One never knows how close they are to a solution! 🙂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Captain 80s Posted March 5 Member Contributer Share Posted March 5 Ok. One thing I'll add is that when I was measuring 86 / 87 VFR shocks at home I was convinced I had them right. Using bolts thru the eyelets and then measuring. I took them to work and put them on my rock with a height gage and indicator... I was WAY off. I'm not so sure it's possible your two stock shocks actually are the exact same length. And if they are, that your method of setting your shocks produced the same lengths. I don't see how the 00 set shorter than the 98, can have WAY more ride height if the stock shocks are the same length. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer bmart Posted March 5 Author Member Contributer Share Posted March 5 Because something else is different, even if they eventually ended up at the same p/ns. I don't like it. I've been chasing my tail. But I'm set now with a direction and have made it most of the way to the destination. Hopefully worth the effort. All things being equal...I'd still rather have Thermosman forks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer bmart Posted March 15 Author Member Contributer Share Posted March 15 I have now gotten a few local rides and 165 miles in the mountains on it. It is like a different bike. Completely rideable with just a few little niggles I'll probably get to eventually. I'm embarrassed at the time wasted (yours and mine) by looking at shock length and sag but not ride height. I should know better, despite the "same" model... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Captain 80s Posted March 15 Member Contributer Share Posted March 15 I'm glad you got it sorted so you can now enjoy it. Lessons learned is another positive take away. On to the next project! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer bmart Posted March 15 Author Member Contributer Share Posted March 15 If I had the money and space... https://charlotte.craigslist.org/mcy/d/clermont-1988-yamaha-fzr1000/7726358462.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Captain 80s Posted March 15 Member Contributer Share Posted March 15 Yes please. Friend bought a 91 a couple years ago that sat outside and is getting it sorted. Upsidedown forks... but loses the dual headlights. 😞 Still a cool bike. Look forward to riding it after it gets a little more gone thru. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer bmart Posted March 15 Author Member Contributer Share Posted March 15 to this day, it is the only bike I've slid both wheels on while going round a fast speed turn. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer St. Stephen Posted March 16 Member Contributer Share Posted March 16 8 hours ago, bmart said: to this day, it is the only bike I've slid both wheels on while going round a fast speed turn. You didn't mention if you stayed upright. 😎 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer bmart Posted March 16 Author Member Contributer Share Posted March 16 Absolutely. The other ways all suck. lol Completely unrelated is this tire, which developed a slight leak on Wednesday while I was riding the CB-1... I really needed the '00 to work well yesterday in the mountains! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer bmart Posted April 13 Author Member Contributer Share Posted April 13 I am the muttonhead in this (what should be) finale in the VFR saga. Looking at shock length and not bike ride height caused me many hours of headaches. Even I can't believe it. The next time that each shock is out I will measure to compare. For now, they both stay bolted in and as they are. Yellow VFR00 hot sag numbers came in perfect after some adjusting. Front is 24/34 and rear is 10/30. This is after a few changes to get rear ride height very close to VFR98, which I love. The yellow bike front forks are a touch (1.5mm) higher in the triples (front of bike is lower) and the rear is a touch higher (w/in 1.5mm) measured up from the axle...but close enough for a lackey. Simply everything feels better with the geometry changed. Braking. Seating. Pressure on arms. Mid corner direction changes. Everything. Patience paid off. I was ready to light it on fire...like I am with the ABS FJ1200 wheels/brakes that cost the earth. I rode both VFRs back to back today to verify/set hot sag. While they feel different because the components are different, they are both pretty excellent. Absolutely adequate for any kind of riding. I planned to be zippy in the mountains tomorrow, but all 7 buddies bailed, so I'll likely just roll around the lakes here, which is a 4-5 hour ride. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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