Member Contributer St. Stephen Posted July 17, 2021 Member Contributer Share Posted July 17, 2021 Hey fellow VFR fans, today I attended this show, which is the first of nine this year in the U.S. Suz, Kaw, Yam, Zero, HD, Indian, Energica, Zero (no Honda) were there along with a bunch of vendors. It is at Sonoma Raceway here in CA, only 30 min from where I live so I thought I'd post. It was really, really weird that the new bikes were from HD (Pan America, Sportster S). HD's electric bike off-shoot was also there, along with lots of other electric bike manufacturers. And electric bicycles. Anyway, I've got a three-day pass so tomorrow I will do as many demo rides as I can... Livewire, Pan America, some random HD or Indian 1000lb cruiser, a few electric bicycles etc. Will report back. The owner is probably listening to St. Stephen right now: I always wanted a Bultaco when I was a kid: Can you identify the device the Livewire guys are using? A guy in Honda leathers started poking me in the chest. Then I realized he was identifying all the VFR's he owned! LOTS of electric: The Pan America. I'll ride one tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Grum Posted July 17, 2021 Member Contributer Share Posted July 17, 2021 Well, we all need to take good care of our beloved VFR's because most certainly "For the times they are a changing"😪 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Cogswell Posted July 17, 2021 Member Contributer Share Posted July 17, 2021 9 hours ago, Grum said: Well, we all need to take good care of our beloved VFR's because most certainly "For the times they are a changing"😪 And not for the better . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer St. Stephen Posted July 18, 2021 Author Member Contributer Share Posted July 18, 2021 I was glad I went, but I do wish there were more European manufacturers other than KTM--and Honda of course. No Ducati, BMW, Aprilia, Triumph. I was hoping to look at helmets too but only HJC was there. If you've been to these shows before (I haven't), or a major race you've probably seen more vendors. But I guess pulling it off at all this year was an accomplishment. However--the focus was demos, and the roads of southern Sonoma County were crawling with guys (and lots of women!) on demo bikes from all the brands present: So (if Buells don't count) my Livewire ride yesterday was the first time I have ever operated an HD! It was smoother, narrower and lighter (feeling) than it looks. I had ridden a Zero a few years ago so I knew what to expect performance-wise: strong, linear power at all times, not much character but you never get caught in the wrong gear. Yes, I kept trying to downshift coming to a stop. Good fit and finish. Of course the usual problems will prevent me from purchasing: charge time, range, charing station availability, price, can't borrow electrons when you run out, etc. The higher-end electric bicycles have a CVT-type variable transmission in the rear hub, kinda cool. For only the price of a good used 5th gen you too can own this bicycle: The Pan America: incredibly ugly IMHO, retaining the worst styling elements of HD cruisers while looking like a lump. Great, strong engine once I switched to sport mode, comfy seat and riding position. Really weird kickstand design that will probably result in a lot of tipovers. Continuing with HD, the batwing fairing has been taken to new literal extremes. Yes, in the background that's the other RC-51 besides mine at this event, a 2003 also. Grum was here but I must have missed him: Just like today's featured photo, almost! A DCT: Heading home on the best bike at this show, of course! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Cogswell Posted July 18, 2021 Member Contributer Share Posted July 18, 2021 I like the Givi bags on the 7th gen - they look good on it. The last M/C show I went to and the last that was held withing a day's drive from me was in 2014 in Seattle. Honda was there. I asked about the then-new 8th gen as they did not have one on hand - the Honda reps looked at me like I had a horn growing out of my forehead. Didn't know (or wouldn't tell) a thing about it - almost like they hadn't even heard of it. And that show was less than half of what they had been a decade earlier. I'm not sure what it is - maybe the internet as a way to showcase products instead - but it seems that these shows have more or less dried up except in a few of the biggest metro areas. I used to look forward to the upcoming show, but since that one in 2014 I've almost completely forgotten about them. As Grum observed a few days ago - "times, they are a changin' . . . ". Thanks for the photos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Dutchy Posted July 18, 2021 Member Contributer Share Posted July 18, 2021 Thanks but no thanks.... Let me repeat And repeat ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer boOZZIE Posted July 19, 2021 Member Contributer Share Posted July 19, 2021 I like the tassels on the Indian's foot boards but why doesn't it have some streamers coming out of the handlebar ends 🤣 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Grum Posted July 19, 2021 Member Contributer Share Posted July 19, 2021 12 hours ago, St. Stephen said: Grum was here but I must have missed him: Haha. Ya didn't steal my red pullover did ya. Dang, can't find it anywhere!! No doubt about it St.Stephen yours is the Best Bike there apart from the Batmobile of course. Why is it, so many new bikes look fugly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer RC1237V Posted July 19, 2021 Member Contributer Share Posted July 19, 2021 Thanks for saving me a trip up there! I too miss the old shows in San Mateo and San Jose fairgrounds. Looks like they are trying to market bikes to people who don't ride bikes.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimC Posted July 19, 2021 Share Posted July 19, 2021 Thanks for the write-up on the smaller scale IMS show. I attend the stop in Cleveland every few years, whether I'm in the market for a bike or not. Usually I'm looking for some accessory item or piece of riding gear, but I usually leave empty handed. Still, it's fun to check out on the new (and "new and improved!") models. I hope the new HD Pan America is a great bike, because it will have to be just to overcome how incredibly ugly it is. I'll also be shocked if it sells well at all. Frankly, I just don't see it happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Dutchy Posted July 19, 2021 Member Contributer Share Posted July 19, 2021 Am I looking at plastic covers over the actual engine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer St. Stephen Posted July 19, 2021 Author Member Contributer Share Posted July 19, 2021 1 hour ago, Dutchy said: Am I looking at plastic covers over the actual engine? Dutchy, as I'm sure you know, Harley Davidson has never, ever, used plastic on their bikes. In fact, they have also never, ever, used suspension from a Japanese company owned by Honda. Or water cooled engines. Or manufactured HD badged bikes anywhere but the good old USA. Can't believe you even asked, geez. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomb393 Posted July 20, 2021 Share Posted July 20, 2021 21 hours ago, Dutchy said: Am I looking at plastic covers over the actual engine? Ewww Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer St. Stephen Posted July 23, 2021 Author Member Contributer Share Posted July 23, 2021 Follow up: Of course to ride a demo bike you have to hand over your contact info. The emails have started flowing. Can anyone on VFRD translate this message from Livewire into English? 😬 Immerse Yourself in a New Experience Our goal is to create a bold new understanding of motorcycling in the collective consciousness of our cities and escapes by leading the electrification of two wheels and beyond. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Dutchy Posted July 23, 2021 Member Contributer Share Posted July 23, 2021 Woke Inclusion LGBTIQXVSW (did I miss one?) Sustainable Nonsense..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Cogswell Posted July 24, 2021 Member Contributer Share Posted July 24, 2021 10 hours ago, St. Stephen said: Follow up: Of course to ride a demo bike you have to hand over your contact info. The emails have started flowing. Can anyone on VFRD translate this message from Livewire into English? 😬 Immerse Yourself in a New Experience Our goal is to create a bold new understanding of motorcycling in the collective consciousness of our cities and escapes by leading the electrification of two wheels and beyond. Yes, I have the exact translation . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimC Posted July 24, 2021 Share Posted July 24, 2021 13 hours ago, St. Stephen said: Follow up: Of course to ride a demo bike you have to hand over your contact info. The emails have started flowing. Can anyone on VFRD translate this message from Livewire into English? 😬 "Please ignore the ancient design of most of our other bikes and the average age of the old white guys who ride them." 😉 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Dutchy Posted July 24, 2021 Member Contributer Share Posted July 24, 2021 Remind me to give st.stephen@vfrd.com as my contact email when asked I have an extra email address that is an abbreviation of the Dutch word for "garbage bin" I use for such purposes.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Cogswell Posted July 24, 2021 Member Contributer Share Posted July 24, 2021 There is tremendous pressure on corporate boards to adopt this garbage . . . I wonder if it's for "public perception", but in reality they know it's all as described above, and nothing will materially change. In other words, it's all more "show" for perception than anything real. Tell the media crowd what they want to hear so they stay off their backs, but in the end what's being advocated and pressured for does not work and furthermore does nothing. But, they don't want to hear that, so give them sound bites. As one of my college roommates would say "don't confuse me with the facts!" Ah well. For any interest, there is a movie on youtube (unless it's been deemed "mis-information" and removed) now that goes in to the solar and wind turbine industries and just what is wrong with them - by no other than, wait for it - Micheal Moore - "Planet of the Humans". Whoda' thunk it . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimC Posted July 24, 2021 Share Posted July 24, 2021 9 hours ago, Cogswell said: There is tremendous pressure on corporate boards to adopt this garbage . . . I wonder if it's for "public perception", but in reality they know it's all as described above, and nothing will materially change. In other words, it's all more "show" for perception than anything real. Tell the media crowd what they want to hear so they stay off their backs, but in the end what's being advocated and pressured for does not work and furthermore does nothing. I agree to some extent. But EVs are the future, or at least a good portion of it. Like it or not, right or wrong, we're moving toward EVs. I give HD credit for being one of the first (if not the first) major motorcycle manufacturer to debut and actually sell a working EV model, even if the price is insane and the marketing hype around it is ridiculous. That being said, I can just see the Livewire folks being more humored by HD brass than really being taken seriously. Probably the same treatment Erik Buell got. If and when Livewire fails, the old guard will happily dismiss them, then sit back smugly and say I told you so. 😕 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magneto Posted July 24, 2021 Share Posted July 24, 2021 5 hours ago, TimC said: I agree to some extent. But EVs are the future, or at least a good portion of it. Like it or not, right or wrong, we're moving toward EVs.... Obviously Tim you haven’t watched MadMax. That is the future..... surely some rich folk living a top of the global food chain will use some electro fanaberia but majority of humanity will run your trusty Honda until the end of times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer DannoXYZ Posted July 24, 2021 Member Contributer Share Posted July 24, 2021 my main beef with HD EV is it doesn't have level-2 charging. Kinda ridiculous... but then again.. maybe it's directive from powers-that-be to hinder quicker EV adoption... EV will take trillions of dollars away from oil-industry. They're gonna prolong and delay that process for as long as possible... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer vfrcapn Posted July 25, 2021 Member Contributer Share Posted July 25, 2021 My main beef with HD LV is the styling, like they're trying to bring along the HD faithful, many of whom won't look at an electric bike. Redesign it to be stylish and modern, throw the orange on it so you know it's a HD and get the price under $25K. I'd consider it. Probably buy a Zero bike first though. With that, if they sell, & customers are happy, & company makes a profit, & shareholders are happy, then that is where the market is going. Honda seems focused on selling Groms, 300/500cc bikes and ATVs, seems a waste of a reservoir of engineering talent, I just don't see the innovation BMW, Ducati or others are bringing to their IC bikes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Dutchy Posted July 25, 2021 Member Contributer Share Posted July 25, 2021 On 7/23/2021 at 10:42 PM, Dutchy said: Inclusion LGBTIQXVSW (did I miss one?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LEGEND Posted December 6, 2021 Share Posted December 6, 2021 On 7/23/2021 at 7:42 AM, St. Stephen said: Follow up: Of course to ride a demo bike you have to hand over your contact info. The emails have started flowing. Can anyone on VFRD translate this message from Livewire into English? 😬 Immerse Yourself in a New Experience Our goal is to create a bold new understanding of motorcycling in the collective consciousness of our cities and escapes by leading the electrification of two wheels and beyond. Sounds better than the hateful misogynistic, racist, white supremacy, anti science views being spewed from misguided politicians and their followers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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