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Engine GRANADED left stranded in the middle of nowhere -=SOLVED!=-


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So you say the crank lube oil way for #4 rod may have been the issue. Its a straight through drilling, was it blocked when removed the rod ? 
 

Where were the shells relative to each other when you separated the rod ? 
 

Re the journal being under size once ground to smooth. Why not just have it welded up then ground to a standard size ? 

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Yes, welding up journals and grinding to OEM spec is common practice here on hot-rods as well.

 

I had #2 rod-journal repaired on my Porsche and shop said it was hardest crank they've ever seen. Can't imagine Honda crank being any more difficult.

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I just checked, the 2017 VFR1200X, and 2010 VFR1200F have the exact same part number for the crankshaft ( 13300-MGE-020 ). Might be your best option, along with a new rod and bearings.

 

Can they weld, and re-grind your crankshaft back to the original size? I know it needs to be done by someone who knows what they are doing, but plenty of people have done it on car engines. Although bike engines spin much faster, but your only looking for a few thousandths thicker....

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13 hours ago, Mohawk said:

So you say the crank lube oil way for #4 rod may have been the issue. Its a straight through drilling, was it blocked when removed the rod ? 
 

Where were the shells relative to each other when you separated the rod ? 
 

Re the journal being under size once ground to smooth. Why not just have it welded up then ground to a standard size ? 


Oil starvation on pot#4 is out of the question. Oil jounal that feed the bearing is in the middle of pot#1 and one main bearing that are in excellent condition. No crap that might block oil flow was found. 

 

10 hours ago, DannoXYZ said:

Yes, welding up journals and grinding to OEM spec is common practice here on hot-rods as well.

 

I had #2 rod-journal repaired on my Porsche and shop said it was hardest crank they've ever seen. Can't imagine Honda crank being any more difficult.


Yepp. Thats the current plan. Machine shop send me to check for bearings that fit with 41.000
No such bearing exist, close it can get is 41.224
Machine guy says he didnt want to weld up the crank until we are sure there is no matching bearing somewhere.


#1# Now I'll give the crank for weld up and then it will be cut back to standard 41.500 for a set of standard bearings.

Or

#2# get that used crank from ebay + set of standard bearings

Or

#3# if the price is right I'll buy that used engine that I've mentioned eirlier

Maybe I'll go #3# first and have running bike within a week and then take my time to do #1# nice and easy winter project to have solid (if welded crank can be called solid) engine just sitting arround

11EC28158-9B40-4641-AD2E-E5D8AB7EF529.jpeg

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On 7/14/2021 at 1:05 PM, ggtod said:

When talking Honda I expect to be 2031 or even 2041 and engine running like new! I have and seen many examples why you can run them troublefree. I didnt expect engine with oil to die , I kinda expect them to run with no oil for ages, they just set the bar high. Now it feel like its a M5 V10 where it eats its bearing for no reason.
For the 2nd part, where the blokes from Uk or US or Belgium Switzerland etc ride their bike hard??  No really, where?? for 15min on a track day? Cuz except the autobahn I dont see where guys ride or drive hard. Been in west europe - u go to jail if go 3km over the limit get shot on the spot for 5+....

You are making lots of assumptions but at least you can wrench 🙂

People oil starve their bikes all the time, failure is often not immediate but delayed. Then bikes run on their sides, knocked over, lay down etc. Mechanics or POs start bikes without oil another common buggers.  Stuff just happens. 

Btw, Do not underestimate the English riders. They street race like mad... but also lots of tattered bikes there, not well cared for. Not sure why.

 

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7 hours ago, Magneto said:

 🙂

Btw, Do not underestimate the English riders. They street race like mad... but also lots of tattered bikes there, not well cared for. Not sure why.

Where are you getting this information ? 

This is the second post in this thread where you assume that English bikers do little or no maintenance and street race all the time. 

Sure,  our winters are not great for riding  and the roads get salted which corrodes stuff.

It's a bit like me saying that all American bikers fit lengthened swinging arms, lights under their bikes and ride around in insufficient riding gear.

It's a sweeping generalisation which incorrect.

 

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8 hours ago, DaveC said:

Where are you getting this information ? 

This is the second post in this thread where you assume that English bikers do little or no maintenance and street race all the time. 

Sure,  our winters are not great for riding  and the roads get salted which corrodes stuff.

It's a bit like me saying that all American bikers fit lengthened swinging arms, lights under their bikes and ride around in insufficient riding gear.

It's a sweeping generalisation which incorrect.

 

 

Don't try to get me on technicalities good Sir, I didn’t see you brushing when OP claimed that English don’t ride over 4000 rpm at all because of enforcement.

There is a large subculture in UK that goes nuts, with jurisdictions trying to respond with dark riders trying to catch them. There was even proposal to equip all the bikes with gps to track all the riders all the time... 😂  I linked little video for your enjoyment, many more available where it come from...

 

 

I am not picking on Brits in this department, just pointing out people from outside do not really have full picture about lawlessness in western countries. In my home jurisdiction out of 2.7 million inhabitants 630 thousands have suspended licenses with majority still driving anyway. Mind 2.7 million are all the people including toddlers. 😂  I linked source article for your enjoyment also...

 

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/article251679163.html

 

 

 

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15 hours ago, Magneto said:

... but also lots of tattered bikes there, not well cared for. Not sure why.

 

Much obliged for the question, here is my favorite Englishman Matt working on this scary   bike 😉   Fished from a canal? Not sure....

 

 

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So I've got that used crank from the ebay link above. Its from crosstourer '15 but as per serial numbers they appear the same as '11 FD
Plus I've got a deal on the complete set of conrods and their bearings, so placing them back eliminate troubleshooting what journal need what bearing so I'm half way done no questions there. I didnt get the new engine casing and its bearings , bottom half was missing and I could only see main bearing stamps and bearing colors.

But now there is question with the main bearings, their size and colours its a mistery for me. I've tried to read some forums about translating engine case stamp+crank stamp + colors and I understood nothing 😬 How do you read the table from the service manual??

Can someone help translate/explain what is going on now?

Check out what I have:
IMG_1622.JPG

 

 

 

table is from the SM , I dont know if the 2C stamp matter or do I only look on block stamp BAB (old) and AAB(new)

I think on the middle main I can use my old bearing inserts- matching letter+color
on the left I have same color but different letter
On the right different color but matching letter

Still to plastigauge all to be sure I'm in  the oil clearance specs : 0,017- 0,035 mm
but that simple table is driving me crazy I have all the details still cant figure it out

Untitled11.png

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Are you saying the coding from the Crosstourer manual differs from the VFRs manual? If so, can you order bearings from the C.T. parts fiche?  Did I get that wrong?   Aside from the color codes,  is it possible to simply go by journal diameter measurement and then choose the corresponding bearing measurement?  In the end what matters is the clearance with the crank journal regardless of coding differences between models. 

Just thinking out loud here -  I wonder if during assembly the journals were measured at one stage of assembly, then the block going to that crank was stamped with the needed shells to match that crank so the worker at the next station knew what to select.    If you measure the main bearing journals on the two cranks, how much do the measurements differ?  

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Use the LETTER codes from the block you are using, and the NUMBER codes from the crank you are using.

 

The reference for the block code is the top horizontal row of the chart. The reading from each journal, etched into the crank will tell you which row to select on the left side vertical axis. Then the bearing you would use is where those two axis' meet. You may have a different color for each journal, as a big bore and small crank will need a thicker bearing, and vice-versa.

 

The foot note says the crankcase codes are left to right.

 

I would measure both bores, and crank just to verify. 

 

 

20210728_212241.jpg

20210728_212323.jpg

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Looks like the same process for the rods...

20210728_213753.jpg

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  • 2 weeks later...

I'm not sure if the short video of that used crank is visible, so here it is again

 





Than crank is unusable. Thankfully I got full refund.

Welding up the crank then cut back to size is no option anymore or at least for me.
Nobody locally is promising good results witn that 10k rpm crank.
Doing the nightmare to get the oil clearance spot on, pretty much getting all the 5 colors caps 
Only option is new crank + all the bearings  =  $$$$
or get that used enigne I've mentioned eirlier its 2 hours drive to get it.
But! I've get super annoyed with this guys that are selling it.
First time I've called they said 900$ for stript engine kinda pricey already for local standards .
And when I called again to give me the location to pick it up, they pumped the price to 1500$
Thats summarize local behavior of this 2nd hand parts guys.
I bought the hole thing with side cases + akra for 5500$ !!! There is no way of me paying that or not after I've read a guy in Poland paid 1000$ for one, or seeing old offers in Netherland and Italy (N/A anymore) for 1300$-1500$ complete engines with all the plugs sensors clutch covers etc. NOT just the bare minimum.

1111.JPG

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If I recall correctly the ebay listing for the crank mentioned it was "good" or similar.  It's very disappointing that there are unscrupulous sellers out there misrepresenting to take advantage of people.  Really, what the hell - did someone take a ball peen hammer to that crank journal??  They must toss parts around with no concern as to their condition.  Anyway - sorry for your troubles.  I guess the only thing you might do is to go to the seller's location with maybe $500 cash and offer it.  Be ready to walk.  I wouldn't even come above their original offering price - I'd make them come down from it.  Sellers that try to gouge people leave such a bad taste for everyone.  It totally sucks.  :angry:  I guess with what you have at those prices you could probably part out what you've got to recover some or possibly a good portion of your money and put it toward something else.  It's really too bad - that was a nice looking ride. 

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Naah thats alright. That guy from ebay is cool dude. He is running the show all by himself, busy man. He bought that engine (crashed bike) without noticing that the bottom half of the engine is hit by something with pieces missing, rust develop right there in this spot that eat its way into the crank. Ofc when I met him first it I've checked everything thoroughly right there it was covored with some black gunk that I manage to get it out only after I spend some good time polishing it. After all he offer me to get the crank fixed by some racing shop in Greece that are his friends and knew what they are doing. All for his expense. But I would not fall in that rabbit hole anymore of trying to fix engine that initial Honda design is made not to be fixable. He offer to trade me for some of his good bikes, looked for used engine in all of his resources. In the end its all my fault not checking it before buying it.

For that used engine and its price.... Well, here we are kind a use to it. Fckers everywhere that enjoy giving you a good kick in the stomach while you are sick lay down. I could agree with their terms if I want to see the bike running again. Or like you said I could part it out , but lose a good portion of the money. Cuz I dont work like this guys. I made presents and sell everything super cheap for reasons exactly the oposite of the usual 2nd hand parts guys thinking. I've got bombarded with messages for parts from guys from our bulgarian 1200 fb fan page. There is one dude that crashed recently and is really stubborn to fix it all up, he offer me to buy half of mine to fix his bike.
ddd.JPG


On other hand I have my eyes on different style bike that I've look for years and maybe I'll go that route. 
Or fix mine and add that super light Dr-z to the fleet and this time dont get bankrupted when the engine die for no reason.


asd.JPG



Really appreciate all the comments and suggestions it help me stay motivated

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I had a DRZ 400 SM new they are ace, great fun, but the vibes, plank seat & small tank not much good for distance work. With a KLR650 carb & DRZ-E model silencer (ha that's a joke) make it rev & go great managed 110mph on it 😁👍
 

I sold it & bought my VFR, which I'm just waiting to have its MoT done now. 

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2 minutes ago, Mohawk said:

Bike passed 👍😁😁

Excellent, hope you get plenty riding in for the remainder of your summer. 

Hanging out for warmer weather here and f...ing covid restriction relief!

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1 hour ago, Mohawk said:

Bike passed 👍😁😁


Mines tomorrow, I’ll put new front brake pads in today 

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1 hour ago, Grum said:

Excellent, hope you get plenty riding in for the remainder of your summer. 

Hanging out for warmer weather here and f...ing covid restriction relief!

 

All restrictions here were gone over a month ago.  Even the the US / Canadian border hss reopened.  I guess it's back to normal for us now since our commander in chief told us that we have 350 mil people vaccinated!  :laughing6-hehe:

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On 8/10/2021 at 10:21 AM, Mohawk said:

I had a DRZ 400 SM new they are ace, great fun, but the vibes, plank seat & small tank not much good for distance work. With a KLR650 carb & DRZ-E model silencer (ha that's a joke) make it rev & go great managed 110mph on it 😁👍
 

I sold it & bought my VFR, which I'm just waiting to have its MoT done now. 


DRZ will need aftermarket seat and tank. I'll it leave for the next summer.

I got that used engine
IMG_1647.JPG

almost there
IMG_1650.JPG

UK vs. Italy 10yo bike

IMG_1649.JPG

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Wow - it's really proceeding quickly.  Did you work out a good deal for the motor?
 

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Agree with Cogswell, no flies on you... had that engine stripped to find the problem in no time... now the replacement almost back in... impressive!  Hope it all works out well for you, its a beauty of an 8g you have there.  Glad you are saving it!

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  • ggtod changed the title to Engine GRANADED left stranded in the middle of nowhere -=SOLVED!=-

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