Chain brands?

[Sweeper]

It's time to replace the chain and sprockets. Sprocket Center has a 520 kit for $155 that uses a BikeMaster xring chain and superlight steel sprockets. Most any of the other name brand chains are $80 to $100 more. Anybody have experience with BikeMaster chain? Do I really need to be concerned about it for Ol'Heavy that is mostly an old mans touring bike? Is there a better place for me to be looking?

[Cogswell]

I've never owned one,  but did run across this thread which has a few thoughts on it.   

 

https://advrider.com/f/threads/bikemaster-chains-made-by-rk.1432074/

 

My gut tells me that you get what you pay for,  and if you take the word "Chain" and move the 3rd letter to the end, it will explain the difference in price. FWIW, the best price I could find on my last DID 530 chain was on Amazon - IIRC it was $168 shipped (no sprockets).  

[ducnut]

Bikemaster is Tucker Rocky’s (parts distributor) house brand. If you’re short on money, flipping the bike, or don’t care about your stuff, run it. Otherwise, DID or RK are what you want, preferably in a coated or gold finish, so you’re not dealing with rust issues. 

[Sweeper]

That's what I needed to hear. I'm cheap but for now, the VFR is a keeper so I'll break the bank.  Thanks gentlemen. 

[34468Randy]

I agree with above. Quality costs a little more but I believe it is cheaper in the long run. BTW. I have ALWAYS changed sprockets at same time as the chain. Many others may not agree. Even if your were flipping it, when the potential buyer was to ask if the sprockets where changed as well as the chain, what would the answer be?

 

[Grum]

On 7/6/2021 at 10:27 AM, 34468Randy said:

I agree with above. Quality costs a little more but I believe it is cheaper in the long run. BTW. I have ALWAYS changed sprockets at same time as the chain. Many others may not agree. Even if your were flipping it, when the potential buyer was to ask if the sprockets where changed as well as the chain, what would the answer be?

 

Totally agree with using a top quality chain.

But can I please have all your old sprockets you've replaced, assuming you keep the chain properly tensioned, lubricated regularly (mostly for the benefit of the sprockets), and haven't over extended the chain life!

[DannoXYZ]

5 hours ago, 34468Randy said:

I agree with above. Quality costs a little more but I believe it is cheaper in the long run. BTW. I have ALWAYS changed sprockets at same time as the chain. Many others may not agree. Even if your were flipping it, when the potential buyer was to ask if the sprockets where changed as well as the chain, what would the answer be?

 

there's optimum wear numbers. Replacing parts before they're worn hurts nothing. Why not change out sprockets twice as often as chains? Or every other tank? That certainly has to be better with less wear.

 

Why not change engine-oil every 100-miles with Royal Purple as well? Certainly less wear and you can tell buyers they're getting better engine than using lower-quality oils for thousands of miles more than necessary.

[Sparkie]

You'll be fine changing the sprockets every other chain change, as long as you change the chain at a reasonable time.  

People are so weird about the chain.  Just keep it clean and the slack set properly.  

Some people are saying they get 60,000 miles out of a chain.  Others are taking their chain off the bike every week to clean it.  

 

[DannoXYZ]

8 hours ago, Sparkie said:

You'll be fine changing the sprockets every other chain change, as long as you change the chain at a reasonable time.  

People are so weird about the chain.  Just keep it clean and the slack set properly.  

Some people are saying they get 60,000 miles out of a chain.  Others are taking their chain off the bike every week to clean it.  

 

That's the secret! I clean off chain with scrub-brushes every other tank and lube it. Inspect slack monthly.

 

JT, long-time maker of sprockets, has introduced new line of X-ring chains. Just put one on my race-bike, will see how it compares to previous DID that lasted 2-seasons (flipped alloy sprocket after 1st season).

[TimC]

I used the OEM (probably not actually made by Honda), D.I.D. and Regina chain and sprocket kits when I replaced them, which was about every 20,000 miles on average.  I was never great at cleaning my chain and sprockets, but I did keep them lubed with spray-on chain wax every 400-500 miles.  I don't know that the kits needed to be replaced when they did, but better safe than sorry, so I did them regardless.

[trmoyer]

I just ordered a Vortex V3 WSS sprocket & chain kit from Revzilla. Will see how it works out and if I’m on the ball remembering I’ll update this thread and maybe post a separate thread. It’ll be at least after the 12th.

 

I always seem to second guessing myself when adjusting the chain on this bike. Is it to tight, to lose, just right??? No matter how I measure the slack I’m never happy with the result. Drives me bonkers. 
 

 

[VFR78]

Drives me bonkers too! Chains aside, what do people consider are the best sprockets for the Viffer?

[Grum]

25 minutes ago, trmoyer said:

I always seem to second guessing myself when adjusting the chain on this bike. Is it to tight, to lose, just right??? No matter how I measure the slack I’m never happy with the result. Drives me bonkers.

No need to worry trmoyer, its not an exacting science.

Simply pop it on your center stand and make sure the lower mid section of the chain you can move it up down the distance specified.

You are best to err on very slightly loose rather than tight side of the tolerance.

The beauty of the Single Sided Swingarm is the ease of chain adjustment.

[VFR78]

But what actually is “slack”? Is the 25 to 35mm measured from pull/push to its maximum IE concerted effort, or just to the points where tension is felt?

[Grum]

28 minutes ago, VFR78 said:

But what actually is “slack”? Is the 25 to 35mm measured from pull/push to its maximum IE concerted effort, or just to the points where tension is felt?

Well all I do is with a rag on a finger I just push the chain up firmly then let it flop down, pushing up it generally just touches the underside of the swingarm if I visually achieve the 25 to 35mm then all is good. Once you've done it numerous times you'll get the hang of it.

 

Whilst you don't want an excessively loose chain you NEVER want an overtightend one.

[St. Stephen]

13 minutes ago, Grum said:

Well all I do is with a rag on a finger I just push the chain up firmly then let it flop down, pushing up it generally just touches the underside of the swingarm if I visually achieve the 25 to 35mm then all is good. Once you've done it numerous times you'll get the hang of it.

 

Whilst you don't want an excessively loose chain you NEVER want an overtightend one.

 

+1

 

I am a slow learner, so it took me sooo many years worrying about precise chain adjustment until I finally arrived at Grum's conclusion. Keep it clean and lube sparingly assuming a modern O or X chain.

[VFR78]

26 minutes ago, Grum said:

Well all I do is with a rag on a finger I just push the chain up firmly then let it flop down, pushing up it generally just touches the underside of the swingarm if I visually achieve the 25 to 35mm then all is good. Once you've done it numerous times you'll get the hang of it.

 

Whilst you don't want an excessively loose chain you NEVER want an overtightend one.

That’s about what I do, but as a Registered/Licenced Surveyor, in my working life, I’m wedded to a tape measure. I guess I’m a bit anal😳

[Grum]

After reading an excellent article from a motorcycle workshop regarding chain maintenance a few years back. It advised that provided the chain was well maintained you could easily run the sprockets for two chains.

 

The commonly talked about "new sprockets with every new chain" may be an old habit that stems back to pre O ring sealed chain days.

Chain technology has come a long way, along with chain/sprocket lubricants and sprocket metallurgy.

 

PROVIDED, you maintain proper tension, keep the chain reasonably clean, and lubricate it regularly (largely for the benefit of sprockets). Then there is no reason why your sprockets won't go two or three chains! I am referring to OEM quality sprockets not some cheap and nasty equivalent from a country I won't mention!

The other benefit with the VFR single sided swingarm is that the chain and sprocket alignment should remain good.

 

My current 8gen after 84,000ks is still on the OEM rear sprocket and still shows no visible sign of wear, elongation, or distorted teeth!

With my last chain replacement at 74,000ks I reluctantly replaced the OEM front sprocket. See attached picture, allow for a little mobile phone lens distortion, there is no visible difference between the new and the OEM one that's done 74,000ks. I will in the future if needed refit the OEM!

 

With my four VFR's I've never religiously changed the sprockets with a new chain. I've always used a top quality EK or D.I.D. sealed O ring or X ring chain and have always achieved 35,000ks or more per chain.

Over the years I would have saved many hundreds of dollars from not throwing away sprockets that really didn't need replacing.

 

This is purely my own personal experience AND as Always YMMV.

 

Cheers.

 

[DannoXYZ]

54 minutes ago, Grum said:

...

PROVIDED, you maintain proper tension, keep the chain reasonably clean, and lubricate it regularly (largely for the benefit of sprockets). Then there is no reason why your sprockets won't go two or three chains!

Chain needs lube too. The O or X-ring only seals the inner bushing and pin. But roller to outside of bushing interface is not sealed. You need an oil with extreme-pressure/extreme-temperature additives for this as there's metal-to-metal contact (motor-oils won't work). 

 

Honda's OEM sprockets are some tough stuff! They can certainly last 2-3x as long chain. I have yet to find any 3rd-party aftermarket sprockets that'll last as long!

[Sweeper]

All this conversation made me go back and look. The bike had Superlight sprocket and RK 520 gold chain installed at about 16K by previous owner. It looks like they have been on for about 15K miles! That's 15k of mountain twisty roads with hard acceleration and deceleration. I am not great about chain maintenance when I'm on a ride so it wasn't an easy life. I don't have a pic of what they look like now but its ugly. I'm not sure how @VFRpwr managed to bring it home from that last day of the SpringRide.  I ordered the same setup from sprocketcenter.

[Cogswell]

12 hours ago, DannoXYZ said:

Chain needs lube too. The O or X-ring only seals the inner bushing and pin. But roller to outside of bushing interface is not sealed. You need an oil with extreme-pressure/extreme-temperature additives for this as there's metal-to-metal contact (motor-oils won't work). 

 

Both Honda and DID (right on the box - with an illustration), specify use of 90w gear oil, on the o-rings and rollers.  And yet we still have debates about "what's better or does / does not need lube" - much like motor oil debates. The engineers at the major chain manufacturers spend a lot of time on testing and developing specifications,  yet somehow we know better - grease, sprays, whatever are better than what's spec'd.   Yes, oil gets messy.  I use it though,  and my chain cleaning ritual is prior to lubing, to rotate the wheel while holding a rag or paper towel around the chain. A few passes and the chain is spotlessly  clean - same for the wheel. I have never once needed to use solvent or a scrub brush on it.  Then I use a Zoom Spout to strategically place drops of oil where shown by the manufacturer.   I don't over oil it, so I don't have a big mess. Oil takes the dirt away as it flings off - sprays and greases make it stick. Pick one poison or the other - oil to wipe off the wheel and other areas, or have a clean bike and grit stuck to moving parts. Chain maintenance is just part of riding. The best way I know of to avoid it is to get a 7th gen.  To each their  own.   YMMV

[Captain 80s]

I have used nothing but 80-90w gear oil on my chains my whole motorcycling career.  Including my dirt bikes.  For the same reason as above, it's what is recommended by Honda and the Chain manufacturer.  Plus I prefer it.  When the bike is on lift for something, I strategically apply a little on each o-ring and roller in the INSIDE run of the chain, so it is forced out thru the chain before it might fling when ridden after.  Doesn't take long at all and if I do it right, no fling - no mess.  If some does get on the wheel or bodywork, a mild soapy bath takes care of it.  No staining.  No sticky bullshit to attract more crap.  My chains last easily 20K+.  And I hardly ever lube, you're really just keeping the o-rings supple and giving the rollers a little lube.  The chain's grease is sealed inside the x-rings.   Another tactic I've used is to just apply a little oil to the top of the chain on the bottom run (inside) every time I come home on just what is exposed when the chain is nice and warm.  Do that for a while and your chain is lubed.  The warm chain really distributes the oil nicely.

[DannoXYZ]

motor oil =/= gear oil

 

Honda's recommendation is spot-on. Gear-oil has EP/ET additives for contact lubrication. I've gotten best chain durability following Honda's suggestion.

 

 

[trmoyer]

I replaced my chain and sprockets today. In reality I could have just changed the chain but  I just felt better doing all three. At some point the previous owner had a lot of work done on the bike (right before I bought it) because of its age and it sat for some years (only had 15k miles on it) but I think he went a little cheap on the chain, I could be wrong. Anyway the old chain had maybe 8k miles or so on it, got stiff in some links and just didn’t come back to life as I’d liked when I was cleaning it recently so I ordered a Vortex kit. 
 

Up until now I’ve primarily been a user of spray lubes (a few different brands over the years) but think I may go the route of using gear lube. I’m not quite into the idea of a Scott oiler set-up as I’m not a daily commuter /traveler putting down a lot of miles. Anymore it’s just a weekend activity typically in the 200-400 mile range so cleaning and basic maint also happens every weekend.