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Runabouts


Magneto

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Decided to see today if new road construction near by was complete. Sure enough it was done and I got to try brand new big 3 line runabout. Nobody was on the road so I was enjoying myself and while exiting big bird did massive but slide on painted pedestrian crossing. This woke me up better than morning coffee.... 

Apparently we do not do well on runabouts on this side of the pond, as people can’t figure out how to behave on one or even paint signs on one. Guy on the tube mentioned one in Michigan that is in top 4 intersection in number of crashes. We have small one in our neighborhood that I am comfortable to enforce right of way in big pickup truck, never on a bike. Not sure what gives, how other jurisdictions fair? Your thoughts? 

 

Save some paint already 🙂

20210306-084815.jpg

 

Big one in Coral Gables, well established but crazy with bicycles...

20210306-150758.jpg

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While they do help over those 4 way stops, look out for cager that wants to change lanes within the roundabout rather than correcting their navigation error by just exiting and coming back in the right way.

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Simply rule here in the UK, you always give way to the vehicle on the right. (left in less civilised lands).

 

All road paint should be treated as slippery.

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There are so few roundabouts in Ohio, I really don't know the traffic rules for them. Who yields to who?

Locally, county engineering is planning to tear out a 4 way stop and replace with the roundabout because of "accidents". (Really? Crashes from a dead stop?--

Yeah, just wait until the roundabout is put in.)

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The ones we have here give right of way to the vehicle on the roundabout. When approaching, wait for cars on the circle to clear then enter. Getting off is the same - the vehicle exiting has right of way.  They seem to work well.  There are a few bottlenecks that I can think of that were eliminated after they were installed. 

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if anyone waits at roundabout, I do 10-15 more laps just for fun.

 

don't stop coming to roundabout, aim for back wheel of car already going around. By time you entre, you'll zipper in 2-3ft behind their bumper.

 

there are also multi-lane roundabouts. Entre side-by-side with car in next lane.  Car in left-land goes to inside lane, car on right goes to outside lane. You both should end up side-by-side like you were before going in.

 

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, DannoXYZ said:

if anyone waits at roundabout, I do 10-15 more laps just for fun.

 

don't stop coming to roundabout, aim for back wheel of car already going around. By time you entre, you'll zipper in 2-3ft behind their bumper.....

 

 

That may work well for large circles. We have tiny one at the entrance to my subdivision, constant game of chicken being played with peeps not slowing down or yielding to vehicles already on the circle. I just point my truck at offending driver, as am turning,  this gets the attention  quickly. Not on a bike, I won’t risk being tbonned... 

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8 hours ago, Egg on Leggs said:

Simply rule here in the UK, you always give way to the vehicle on the right. (left in less civilised lands).

 

All road paint should be treated as slippery.

 

Sure you love your paint in Blighty. 🤣

 

Regarding paint  being slippery, exactly, that is why designer has to understand what area is being made slippery - never a curve for motorcycle safety. 

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"Tucking in 2-3 feet behind a car"

 

Aka "Russian Roundabout Roullette" :laugh:

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I'm one of the few people I know who actually like roundabouts.  They are more efficient at getting traffic through an intersection, time-saving, better for the environment, and many times prettier than a 4-way stop with or without traffic light.  Plus if it's clear I can whip my car or bike around them quickly for fun!  🙂 

 

But...

 

I have come close to getting hit a few times while in the roundabout by drivers approaching it.  I don't know if it's because they didn't understand they have to yield to the vehicle already in the roundabout, or they just weren't paying attention and didn't see me.  I think it has happened more often in the car than on the bike, but I do have a very small grey car.  (Not an excuse for moronic cagers, but I will admit my Miata is harder to see than the average car.)  Last time it happened I was in the car and had to slam on the brakes and swerve onto the center circle since the offending driver didn't stop until half their car was in the roundabout.  Frickin' idiot!!  😠

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I love 'em, my wife hates 'em. But I got used to them when I was stationed in Europe, so that may help explain the

difference. I wonder if they're even mentioned in the drivers' license exam. In Missouri, they put a Yield sign for entering

traffic, but just like everything else, it doesn't always work. But they beat the hell out of 4-way stops.

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Yielding is same as straight-line merge onto freeway. What I hate is when people get on freeway at 20mph, then accelerate. This causes an entire 1/4-mile row of cars to change lanes or slow down. Better to get up to speed on on-ramp to be exact same speed as existing traffic, then zipper over into gap between cars. Then you don't interfere with existing traffic in any way. I make sure I merge as if I'm invisible, that is, existing traffic doesn't have to change course or speed.

 

Same with roundabouts, think of it as merge-ramp. To avoid making anyone slam on their brakes just for you, you'll want to match speed of traffic in roundabout. In light traffic, it usually goes at same speed as straight, so I just aim for back-wheel and follow someone around. If it's slower than normal traffic, I let off gas so I'm same speed. Rarely do I need to touch brakes and I NEVER stop, because you'll entre roundabout slower than traffic. Aiming-for-back-wheel technique also works for 4-way intersections without roundabout. No slowing (or very little) needed.

 

 

 

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Near where I live, 2 roundabouts are doubling up as a landing place for UFO's....

 

 

 

Landingsbaan voor buitenaardse culturen benoemd tot sleutelwerk | Houtens  Nieuws | Nieuws uit de regio Houten

 

"Control Tower", glide path and touchdown area....

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To partially agree with you Danno we have to recognize two types of runabouts. One large diameter runabout where relative speed differences are small once direction of intersecting vehicles becomes close to parallel at the merge. This case is similar to merging into expressway where paths are parallel.
Second are small diameter neighborhood runabouts where speed difference between vehicle making through tight turn and approaching vehicle is of great magnitude. Before proceeding with turn I need to see approaching offending vehicle matching my slow speed , only then I stop pointing nose of my truck head on at them. I am not doing that on a bike though 😆

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yes, there are many who don't know how to navigate roundabouts efficiently. They drive like they're only one on road. They don't interact well with others. So yeah, definitely shove them aside

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Roundabouts seem tricky because they require an advanced thinking style of driving. 
 

Needs forward planning in choosing your lane as you approach them and a civic-mindset where you have to work with other drivers to keep things smooth. 
 

It all falls down when drivers don’t have that advanced thinking capacity and/or can’t work together with other road users. 
 

A pet hate is those who enter the roundabout in the left lane when they want to turn right, or in the right lane when they want to turn left. Screws up everyone else and stops traffic flowing. 
 

Good indicator discipline is also essential, both when entering and when exiting the roundabout. Some drivers behave like everyone else telepathically knows where they’re going! 
 

I like roundabouts (particularly when there’s no one on them!) but they have a few flaws. 
 

1. they’re awful in very heavy traffic and often “gridlock” where an intersection with lights would have kept things flowing. This is only a problem in really heavy traffic. Problem is town planners site them in areas where traffic is low but eventually builds up due to construction of new homes/businesses. Town planners need to plan ahead, just like drivers on a roundabout. 
 

2. there are often diesel and gravel spills ready to take out motorcycles. Any roundabout near a fuel station will have spills from truckers that overfill their tank. That’s another pet hate. 
 

Finally, I love roundabouts for overtaking. If you plan ahead and choose your position well you can absolutely smoke other road users on a roundabout without breaking the speed limit or a sweat. Very satisfying to enter the roundabout alongside someone and exit it before they’ve even managed to get halfway round! 

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14 hours ago, Magneto said:

Second are small diameter neighborhood runabouts where speed difference between vehicle making through tight turn and approaching vehicle is of great magnitude. Before proceeding with turn I need to see approaching offending vehicle matching my slow speed , only then I stop pointing nose of my truck head on at them. I am not doing that on a bike though 😆

sorry I mis-read this 1st time around. You might be looking at this in reverse:

 

1. traffic in roundabout has right-of-way and it's up to you to make clean entry and merge. Just like on straight freeway merge. Trick is to ride like you're invisible so existing traffic doesn't have to change course or speed to accommodate you.

 

2. If you're making traffic in roundabout slow down so you can entre, that's taking away their RoW. You need to be entering faster to match their speed.

 

Roundabouts have symmetric curves and right-turn entry matches left curve of roundabout. If existing traffic can go say... 20mph around anti-clockwise, then you can also entre @ 20mph on right-turn entry.

 

3. why are worried about approaching traffic and getting in ahead of them? Focus on getting in behind them. That way, they can't hit you even if you're slower. On bikes, I find it's even easier as I can fit into smaller spaces.

 

There's some traffic-control rounadbouts in Berkeley that's more like planter-boxes placed into existing intersections. Can't fit more than 3-cars around it. On bike, It's great because I can go straight through by hugging kerb on entry, apex on planter-box and exit at kerb on other side. I go through full-speed so no one in circle can catch

and hit me. Then usually have to slow on exit as I catch up to car ahead.

 

This is one of few situations where I think more throttle and higher speeds helps and is safer.

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6 minutes ago, DannoXYZ said:

sorry I mis-read this 1st time around:

 

1. traffic in roundabout has right-of-way and it's up to you to make clean entry and merge. Just like on straight freeway merge. Trick is to ride like you're invisible so existing traffic doesn't have to change course or speed to accommodate you.

No worries here. I am in runabout and want my RoW respected instead of paying game of chicken...

 

2. If you're making traffic in roundabout slow down so you can entre, that's taking away their RoW. You need to

be entering faster to match their speed.

Yep, this is a problem I am having with other drivers...

 

Roundabouts have symmetric curves and right-turn entry matches left curve of roundabout. If existing traffic can go say... 20mph around anti-clockwise, then you can also entre @ 20mph on right-turn entry.

Like I said in my previous post, large ones do have matching entries but small ones don’t . 

 

3. why are worried about approaching traffic and getting in ahead of them? Focus on getting in behind someone. That way, they can't hit you even if you're slower. On bikes, I find it's even easier as I can fit into smaller spaces.

Approaching traffic that races toward runabout is about to t bone me if I exercise my right of way. That is illegal, they need to slow down and merge behind me..

 

There's some traffic-control rounadbouts in Berkeley that's more like planter-boxes placed into existing intersections. Can't fit more than 3-cars around it. On bike, It's great because I can go straight through by hugging kerb on entry, apex on planter-box and exit at kerb on other side. I go through full-speed so no one in circle can catch

and hit me. Then usually have to slow on exit as I catch up to car ahead.

 

This is one of few situations where I think more throttle and higher speeds helps and is safer.

 

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20 minutes ago, DannoXYZ said:

San Francisco is installing Dutch-style rounabouts: 

https://sf.streetsblog.org/2021/03/03/dutch-roundabout-round-two-mission-bay/

 

 

 

Interesting idea, not sure if it would work. Bicyclists are out of control down here, plainly violating traffic laws and enjoying free pass from LEOs. I reminded myself how bad it is last Saturday, riding through one of the seaside burbs, mobs of cyclists moving about both directions, most of them ignoring separate bicycle path, all ignoring stop signs and red lights. I walked with missus in a park later that day and had them racing mad past us on walking paths.... madness.

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that's just rude!!! I got speeding ticket in Berkeley on my bicycle couple decades ago. Nowadays, cops & DA are letting everyone off. One guy got busted 13x for stealing motorcycles in past year and they just let him go free!!!

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Looks like there was fatality last week on the road I have mentioned 

 

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/article249732338.html

 

Guy fell in a path of police cruiser. One of my fears when I am passing those tightly pack pelotons/ bike mobs. They ride on a top of each other and constantly wobble often encroach on opposite lane.

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7 hours ago, DannoXYZ said:

San Francisco is installing Dutch-style rounabouts: 

https://sf.streetsblog.org/2021/03/03/dutch-roundabout-round-two-mission-bay/

 

 

If it ain't Dutch

It ain't much.... :laugh:

 

 

They work in the Netherlands becuase EVERY child (on top of what parents teach) get compulsary cycling education, follwoed by a practical test run and certificate.

Of course as the y get older, they don't give a F....  But as they progress to riding a car, they KNOW what to look for and recognise the shortcomings.

 

Then they get to the middle aged men tage where they put on lycra and ride in groups of 20+, feeling like they are 'ffing Hells Angels.   The STEBEL horm on my bike wakes them from that dream :laugh:

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7 hours ago, Magneto said:

Looks like there was fatality last week on the road I have mentioned 

 

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/article249732338.html

 

Guy fell in a path of police cruiser. One of my fears when I am passing those tightly pack pelotons/ bike mobs. They ride on a top of each other and constantly wobble often encroach on opposite lane.

Just because they have right-of-way doesn't make what they're doing OK. In U.S. there's major issues with bicycles and pedestrians because of mistaken assumption that "pedestrians always have right-of-way". This is not true, but people thinking that gets them killed. S.F. has higher pedestrian fatalities than just about any other major city. Entitled hipsters just walking right into traffic thinking they have RoW and thinking that bus "has" to stop. No it doesn't...

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