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No fuel pump....


Howtech

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Hey everyone, 

In short, while riding my ‘07 Annie VFR the bike died. The fuel pump wasn’t charging the system. After setting there scratching my head I turned the key on and it charged. I headed home but it did it again. It did this intermittently 3-4 times and now it won’t come on at all.

As of now I know it’s not the kill switch, not the 18 pole plug and either relays ( fuel cutoff or engine shut off). So, what do you think it could be?

Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance!!

Howard

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The  Drill.  Look in the electrical section of the forums.  

 

Wouldn't surprise me that your battery is toast. Have it load tested - auto parts store, Batteries Plus will do it for free.   If a replacement  gets it running,  check votage across the battery while running, should be 14v+ DC.  If not,  The Drill will lead you through why not.  If your bike has 20,000 to 30,000+ miles, the stator could be fried. Very common on 6th gens.  So check the battery 1st, charging voltage 2nd and then look at the diagnostics in The Drill and report back.

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Hi Howtech.

A common issue here can be a poor electrical connection at the fuel pump itself. Make sure the two wire connection is clean and good. Make sure the Green wire is properly Grounded AND you are seeing a solid 12v at the Brown wire for two to three seconds every time you turn your Ignition to On.

 

You could also be seeing an intermittent fuel pump issue, but first concentrate on good electrical connections first.

 

Also, what is the status of your MIL light (EFI fault light). Is it flashing a code, or fully ON when the fault occurs, or just remains off after ignition switch on?

 

Are you saying that since getting it home the Fuel Pump won't prime at all? If that's the case, using a couple of test leads you can apply 12v directly from the battery to the Fuel Pump connections to check its operation.

 

And as Cogswell states confirm the health of your battery and charging system.

 

Let's know how you get on.

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Hi, have just bought my 6th gen, so will follow this with interest - in case!....

Hope all gets sorted :)

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On 3/7/2021 at 2:07 AM, Bluehawk said:

Hi, have just bought my 6th gen, so will follow this with interest - in case!....

Hope all gets sorted 🙂

Don't hold your breath Bluehawk. Bit of a shame the number of times a VFR owner cries for help, you spend a bit of time on their issue, offer some suggestions and you never hear from them!

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Just to be fair, it isn't an issue with just VFR owners. Every forum I belong to has the same issue: people post about a problem, ask for help,

and then disappear. You never know if your advice helped or whether they solved their problem another way. Gets kind of frustrating after it

happens a dozen times. Heck most of the time you don't know if they ever even read any of the responses.

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Hello everyone,

Sorry for not getting back here sooner (grum...patience is a virtue) and thank you all that had something constructive to add.

This past weekend I had a chance to dive into this and found a bad connection in the inline 30 amp fuse. I cut it out and hard wired a new one in and all is good now. If I knew how to post a pic I would but.....(hey, I think I got it.)

Thank you all again!!!

EF79D2E6-8E27-4F00-87F3-C99F83E6BE32.jpeg

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Thank you for coming back. 😀Connector and wires are fried due to overload. Bad connection is not the “cause” but symptom. What else is on that circuit that could cause a short? Also when you said hardwired, does it mean you have eliminated the fuse?... that would be bad.

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The failure could be due to increasing resistance in the connector.  A bit of corrosion starts, increasing the resistance causing it to get hot, which begets more corrosion which makes it hotter,  creating a downward spiral until it fails. 

 

If it were mine I wouldn't stop with that connector - at a minimum I'd check the stator to R/R  connector and the grounds for any issues, then treat everything with Oxgard - sort of doing a "mini drill".  Lastly I'd check charging voltage to be sure all is good,  particularly if doing long rides from home.  Just my  $.02.

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19 hours ago, Magneto said:

Thank you for coming back. 😀Connector and wires are fried due to overload. Bad connection is not the “cause” but symptom. What else is on that circuit that could cause a short? Also when you said hardwired, does it mean you have eliminated the fuse?... that would be bad.

No, "hard wired" is when you eliminate a plug or connector. I still have a fuse in line. And a loose connection WILL/CAN cause resistance which will lead to heat, corrosion, an open circuit. I'm not saying it's 100% of the time but I don't rule it out. I'll be watching it and keep you posted. 👍  

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2 hours ago, Cogswell said:

The failure could be due to increasing resistance in the connector.  A bit of corrosion starts, increasing the resistance causing it to get hot, which begets more corrosion which makes it hotter,  creating a downward spiral until it fails. 

That's what I'm concluding also but I will take the time to check for overloads from other sources. Thanks!!

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  • 2 weeks later...

UP-DATE.....

I've been out on a couple of 20 mile jaunts with the bike since she's been fixed with the new in line, hard wired 30 amp fuse.

So far there is NO indication of an overload of voltage /heat.  I'll continue to watch it and report any changes but I'm pretty sure 

the loose connection was the cause of the melt down. Thanks again for all you help. 

Howard <>< 

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Good to hear you have a fix. No doubt that nasty Main Fuse B burnt wiring and connector was probably taking out your whole EFI system not just the Fuel Pump.

Enjoy the ride.

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Ah Cogswell and Howtech my friends - I have conclusive proof that your logic progression resistance-heat-corosion-open circuit is not true ALL the time!

(don't take offense, I'm being a smart arse here...)

In my case In was suffering from a dodgy ignition switch on a VFR that had a lot of salt corrosion issues.  Initially the switch worked intermittently. Traced that down to a wire to the switch that had 'corroded' in the middle of its lengths, inside the plastic insulation, inside a plastic sheath bundling the 3 wires to the switch.  The source was only found by stripping off the insulation and finding the area where wires were 'corroded' - I'll come back to this point.

OK - fixed that, re-installed. Switch works fine, starts up - all good. Until morning - dead flat battery.  Check with a spare battery - everything lights up, starts etc.  With no key and ignition switched OFF. WTF???

So - pull the switch again to check - yep continuity between all 3 wires in the OFF position. Check the soldering on the wire connection into the switch - a melted bit of insulation allowing contact between 2 of the 3 wires.  Now how the hell did that happen?? It was fine yesterday.

This time pulling the switch apart completely.  Significant corrosion deposits on the contact areas within the switch.  The penny slowly dropped.  The poor/intermittent connection there was causing enough resistance to heat at least one wire, melting enough insulation to allow it to contact another wire.  And previously enough to heat the wire at a 'weak' spot along its length, progressively causing it to 'corrode' or eventually burn through.

So in this case a shit connection yes caused resistance, yes lead to heat and corrosion, but (due to the melted insulation) caused a CLOSED circuit when it should have been open!

Yeah, yeah - pedantic. But man, when you've had a bitch of a day going over and over stuff, its great to put a cause to the symptoms at last.

 

So - pull the switch again to check - yep continuity between all 3 wires in the OFF position. Check the soldering on the wire connection into the switch - a melted bit of insulation allowing contact between 2 of the 3 wires.  Now how the hell did that happen?? It was fine yesterday.

This time pulling the switch apart completely.  Significant corrosion deposits on the contact areas within the switch.  The penny slowly dropped.  The poor/intermittent connection there was causing enough resistance to heat at least one wire, melting enough insulation to allow it to contact another wire.  And previously enough to heat the wire at a 'weak' spot along its length, progressively causing it to 'corrode' or eventually burn through.

So in this case a shit connection yes caused resistance, yes lead to heat and corrosion, but (due to the melted insulation) caused a CLOSED circuit when it should have been open!

Yeah, yeah - pedantic. But man, when you've had a bitch of a day going over and over stuff, its great to put a cause to the symptoms at last!

IMG_20210319_151505.jpg

IMG_20210319_141421.jpg

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Haha...my fried starter solenoid -> starter run down was caused by dirty contacts in the same switch!  Fixed it a few days ago, bike is running pretty happy tonight!

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3 hours ago, ShipFixer said:

Haha...my fried starter solenoid -> starter run down was caused by dirty contacts in the same switch!  Fixed it a few days ago, bike is running pretty happy tonight!

Guess what? My starter motor cranks up really nicely now

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  • 3 months later...
On 3/8/2021 at 9:59 PM, Grum said:

Don't hold your breath Bluehawk. Bit of a shame the number of times a VFR owner cries for help, you spend a bit of time on their issue, offer some suggestions and you never hear from them!

I'm sure they read it. it's a time problem, i think. we never have enough time to fully report back, but everyone means well by it, i'm sure.

I like to think [believe] that 'mostly' bikers DO have a positive vibe on forums. There's always a couple of grumpy sods who never reply, never say thnx, and complain about everyone/thing. Sad buggers and good luck to them all..   I'm enjoying logging on and responding... but i dont have time either! lol.

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18 minutes ago, Magneto said:

.uman nature. I really admire Grum for helping all the needy here...

Very kind words Magneto, thankyou. Enjoy helping out where I can, nothing different to all the other members that help out with their own experience, just like yourself.

Nothing worse than a sick VFR.

Cheers. :beer:

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