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4th Gen Total Death While Riding?


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This morning I was headed to class, started my 97 up, let it idle for about 10 minutes, then slowly worked my way through the neighborhood headed to main roads. As I was going through a dip in the road, the bike died. I lost all electrical on the dash, including gauges, lights, clock, everything, headlights and taillights gone, and the engine shut off. 

 

First thing I did was check my killswitch, it was still in the run position. Cycling the key had no effect. No horn, no starter, no nothing. 

 

Where is the main fuse located on a 4th gen? I looked briefly, but I didn't see it right next to the battery where I would have expected to find it. Additionally, would the main fuse kill the clock? Is it potentially the R&R? One of the previous owners replaced the R&R at some point, as it is the variant with cooling fins. My battery was on a battery tender overnight and was replaced a year ago, so I'm doubtful the battery died (although admittedly I haven't pushed the bike home to test it with my multimeter yet).

 

I'm hopeful that I can replace the main fuse and ride it home rather than push it the 3/4 mile home.

 

Thanks

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32 minutes ago, BeastlyDavis13 said:

This morning I was headed to class, started my 97 up, let it idle for about 10 minutes, then slowly worked my way through the neighborhood headed to main roads. As I was going through a dip in the road, the bike died. I lost all electrical on the dash, including gauges, lights, clock, everything, headlights and taillights gone, and the engine shut off. 

 

First thing I did was check my killswitch, it was still in the run position. Cycling the key had no effect. No horn, no starter, no nothing. 

 

Where is the main fuse located on a 4th gen? I looked briefly, but I didn't see it right next to the battery where I would have expected to find it. Additionally, would the main fuse kill the clock? Is it potentially the R&R? One of the previous owners replaced the R&R at some point, as it is the variant with cooling fins. My battery was on a battery tender overnight and was replaced a year ago, so I'm doubtful the battery died (although admittedly I haven't pushed the bike home to test it with my multimeter yet).

 

I'm hopeful that I can replace the main fuse and ride it home rather than push it the 3/4 mile home.

 

Thanks

Just forward of the battery box on the left side is a red top green bottom connector, Dissconect it, there is a 30 amp fuse inside. I'll see if I can get a pic.

 

Your description  seems to indicate a main fuse going. Doubt its the R/R as the bike tends to run erratically as the voltage drops and then dies.

0115211403 (1).jpg

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Check for shorted wires under the seat. Witnessed a 6th gen with a pinched wire when seated. Look for something that would move from the bump.

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Measure voltage of battery with bike off as well.

Then measure voltage while you're cranking.

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1 hour ago, FromMaine said:

Just forward of the battery box on the left side is a red top green bottom connector, Dissconect it, there is a 30 amp fuse inside. I'll see if I can get a pic.

 

Your description  seems to indicate a main fuse going. Doubt its the R/R as the bike tends to run erratically as the voltage drops and then dies.

0115211403 (1).jpg

Thanks for this! I wasn't looking inside of there, I was expecting it to be more obvious to the eye, but again, I only looked for about 2 minutes before pushing it to a park and finding a ride to class! 

 

Sweeper, I will definitely check. There is a SAE lead for the battery tender that runs under the seat and comes out near the taillights, I could easily see that getting rubbed by the seat. 

 

Danno, as it currently stands I can't crank the bike to measure voltage, but I will measure it once I get it running again to verify the battery is good and that I don't have an issue with my R&R.

 

 

Thanks for the advice! I will report back shortly, after I go back to where the bike is parked (30A fuse in hand!)

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A blown main fuse (or faulty wiring or connections) is about the only thing that will knock out your clock. But for it to blow, you may well have a short in the R/R, or as mentioned a chaffed wire shorting to ground. Also the spade type connections for the Red and Red/White wires at the Starter Relay can suffer badly from burnt high resistance contact, check the state of these.

Suggest before fitting the new fuse to first unplug the R/R, insert new fuse then switch on Ignition and make sure everything appears normal. With your meter to ohms measure the two Output Terminals of the R/R where the Red/White and the Green wires would go. Make sure there is No dead short between them. If there is, don't bother connecting the R/R back its stuffed. Hopefully if your battery is charged enough you might be able to ride home, with no charging system.

 

Oh yeah almost forgot. Make sure your battery terminal connections are clean and tight!

 

"Thanks for the advice! I will report back shortly, after I go back to where the bike is parked (30A fuse in hand!)"

Hope you've got more than 1.!!!

Good luck.

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1 hour ago, BeastlyDavis13 said:

Thanks for this! I wasn't looking inside of there, I was expecting it to be more obvious to the eye, but again, I only looked for about 2 minutes before pushing it to a park and finding a ride to class! 

 

Sweeper, I will definitely check. There is a SAE lead for the battery tender that runs under the seat and comes out near the taillights, I could easily see that getting rubbed by the seat. 

 

Danno, as it currently stands I can't crank the bike to measure voltage, but I will measure it once I get it running again to verify the battery is good and that I don't have an issue with my R&R.

 

 

Thanks for the advice! I will report back shortly, after I go back to where the bike is parked (30A fuse in hand!)

If you can, bring two, and some tape. That way if it is the main fuse you can tape a spare to the underside of the seat, on the fuse holder itself or wherever you feel is best. That way you will have it with you if it ever happens again. I think every bike I have has a spare main somewhere for when I don't have my full tool/spares kit with me. 

 

I do hope its something as simple as a fuse, Good Luck.

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26 minutes ago, Grum said:

A blown main fuse is about the only thing that will knock out your clock. But for it to blow, you may well have a short in the R/R.

Suggest before starting the bike and fitting the new fuse to first unplug the R/R, insert new fuse then switch on Ignition and make sure everything appears normal. With your meter to ohms measure the two Output Terminals of the R/R where the Red/White and the Green wires would go. Make sure there is No dead short between them. If there is, don't bother connecting the R/R back its stuffed. Hopefully if your battery is charged enough you might be able to ride home, with no charging system.

Good luck.

That.....is good advice. 

 

Simple and avoids a possible repeat performance.

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45 minutes ago, Grum said:

A blown main fuse (or faulty wiring or connections) is about the only thing that will knock out your clock. But for it to blow, you may well have a short in the R/R, or as mentioned a chaffed wire shorting to ground. Also the spade type connections for the Red and Red/White wires at the Starter Relay can suffer badly from burnt high resistance contact, check the state of these.

Suggest before fitting the new fuse to first unplug the R/R, insert new fuse then switch on Ignition and make sure everything appears normal. With your meter to ohms measure the two Output Terminals of the R/R where the Red/White and the Green wires would go. Make sure there is No dead short between them. If there is, don't bother connecting the R/R back its stuffed. Hopefully if your battery is charged enough you might be able to ride home, with no charging system.

 

Oh yeah almost forgot. Make sure your battery terminal connections are clean and tight!

 

"Thanks for the advice! I will report back shortly, after I go back to where the bike is parked (30A fuse in hand!)"

Hope you've got more than 1.!!!

Good luck.

 

43 minutes ago, FromMaine said:

If you can, bring two, and some tape. That way if it is the main fuse you can tape a spare to the underside of the seat, on the fuse holder itself or wherever you feel is best. That way you will have it with you if it ever happens again. I think every bike I have has a spare main somewhere for when I don't have my full tool/spares kit with me. 

 

I do hope its something as simple as a fuse, Good Luck.

Lots of great advice here! My old KLR liked to pop the glass main fuse every now and then, but it had a spot for a spare, so it was a quick fix (as long as I remembered to refill it!)

 

What form factor fuse does it use? I'm done with classes and headed to the auto parts store for some fuses! 

 

And Grom, should I just be checking if it's strictly grounded out? Or should I check for a certain resistance?

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43 minutes ago, BeastlyDavis13 said:

What form factor fuse does it use? I'm done with classes and headed to the auto parts store for some fuses! 

 

And Grom, should I just be checking if it's strictly grounded out? Or should I check for a certain resistance?

The fuse is just a standard automotive green 30amp blade fuse, just not the miniature type.

 

You need to measure at the R/R itself to be sure there is no low ohms reading between the two output terminals. Meter set to lowest ohms range, not Diode range, you are checking for a dead short or very near to it.

 

FIRST - Make sure your battery terminals are tight. At this stage we are just assuming that the main fuse may have blown!

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7 minutes ago, Grum said:

The fuse is just a standard automotive green 30amp blade fuse, just not the miniature type.

You need to measure at the R/R itself to be sure there is no low ohms reading between the output terminals.

FIRST - Make sure your battery terminals are tight. At this stage we are just assuming that the main fuse may have blown!

Bad news bears!

 

I am getting 0V on the battery terminals! The 30A fuse was in perfect shape, but I went ahead and replaced it anyways, no change. Something worse than just a blown fuse here. I don't see any wires under the seat that are obviously worn through, or even chafed. 

 

I'm about to look up how to test the RR, but yeah, not riding it home this time!

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So, if my testing method is correct, my R/R is toast! 

 

I set my multimeter to measure continuity, and measured across the pins for the green and white/red wires, and tested both polarities. I got nothing either way, which if this R/R is a diode like I understand, means this one is toast. 

 

It is a SH701-12 with a metal back and heat sink fins. 

 

My connectors to the RR look good, not burned. I haven't checked the starter connections yet. 

 

Anything else I can test? And what's the best replacement options for 2021, since it seems like every 3 years opinions change on what is the best method/parts to replace it.

IMG_20210115_160820.jpg

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54 minutes ago, BeastlyDavis13 said:

So, if my testing method is correct, my R/R is toast! 

 

I set my multimeter to measure continuity, and measured across the pins for the green and white/red wires, and tested both polarities. I got nothing either way, which if this R/R is a diode like I understand, means this one is toast. 

No that's not the case. If you got No continuity that means you don't have a shorted R/R. And a shorted R/R would take out your 30amp fuse, your fuse was not blown.

 

0 volts at the battery is the strange one. This could mean an internal short has occurred in the battery. Even a flat battery will indicate some voltage, but 0 volts is serious, perhaps you have a dead battery. Make sure your meter is set to DC volts when measuring!

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3 minutes ago, Grum said:

No that's not the case. If you got No continuity that means you don't have a shorted R/R. And a shorted R/R would take out your 30amp fuse, your fuse was not blown.

 

0 volts at the battery is the strange one. This could mean an internal short has occurred in the battery. Even a flat battery will indicate some voltage, but 0 volts is serious, perhaps you have a dead battery. Make sure your meter is set to DC volts.

Well, that's encouraging at least! 

 

It is strange about the battery, I agree. I was getting low mV readings when I would first contact the battery terminals with my multimeter (set to DC, had to go test on my car battery to make sure I wasn't missing something), but it would immediately drop to 0. I admittedly wasn't the one to install the battery, but I bought the bike from a friend, and he installed it about a year ago. 

 

I will also check my battery tender output and verify that it's not pumping out too much juice. When I finish pushing it home (and verify the output on my trickle charger), maybe I'll put it on the charger and see what comes of it. 

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When you get it home, remove the battery, try charging it then have it load tested by your nearest automotive spare/accessories store.

Remember - battery voltage is not an indication of battery capacity, its ability to deliver plenty of cranking amps.

 

You need to be 100% sure of your battery status before going any further.

 

AND AGAIN - Have you confirmed your battery terminals are clean and tight?

 

As soon as you have the battery sorted and you are able to start the engine you can then properly check your charging voltage and system. For the moment leave the R/R unplugged. Get the battery sorted and try starting the bike and running it for a short period without the R/R.

Then reconnect it start the bike monitoring the battery voltage should be around 13.5 to 14.5v and nothing over 15.5v.

 

Good luck. Keep us posted.

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1 hour ago, Grum said:

When you get it home, remove the battery, try charging it then have it load tested by your nearest automotive spare/accessories store.

Remember - battery voltage is not an indication of battery capacity, its ability to deliver plenty of cranking amps.

You need to be 100% sure of your battery status before going any further.

 

AND AGAIN - Have you confirmed your battery terminals are clean and tight?

 

As soon as you have the battery sorted and you are able to start the engine you can then properly check your charging voltage and system.

For the moment leave the R/R unplugged. Get the battery sorted and try starting the bike and running it for a short period without the R/R. Then reconnect it start the bike monitoring the battery voltage should be around 13.5 to 14.5v and nothing over 15v.

Good luck.

Yes, I double checked my terminals (removed and reinstalled, they are clean and tight).  I'll charge the battery overnight tonight and check it out tomorrow and take it to O'reilly's and load test it, then test without the R/R.

 

Thanks so much for all the help. Hopefully I can update tomorrow with good news that it's just the battery!

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6 hours ago, BeastlyDavis13 said:

Danno, as it currently stands I can't crank the bike to measure voltage, but I will measure it once I get it running again to verify the battery is good and that I don't have an issue with my R&R.

The idea is to test voltage measurement while you're cranking. If you see 13.2v drop below 10v, then you've got dead battery.

 

Why it's dead is another matter. Looks like you might have bad RR or short in wiring somewhere.

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Zero volts is strange, maybe the bump in the road caused an internal battery failure, where one terminal does not connect to the plates inside the battery. Even old messed up batteries read half a volt or so...

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Another test to ensure you have no excessive battery current drain or potential short. (Up to the Ignition Switch)  Carry out the Leakage Current Test prior to reattaching your battery Negative terminal. You may need to move your red meter lead to the DC Current measuring position. So with Ignition to OFF you must not read any greater than 1.2ma thats milli amps.

 

IMG_0996.PNG

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My guess would be a "broken" battery, too.

 

That's the updated OEM reg/rec, by the way, which I've not previously heard of failing.  

 

Ciao,

 

JZH

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Thanks for all the further information! 

 

I 100% believe that it is an internal battery failure. This battery is $28 on Amazon, so it's by no means a high end battery. I couldn't get my battery maintainer to even start charging it, so I attached it to my Jeep battery with the engine off and tried to charge it. After 45 minutes of both my trickle charger and my auto battery, still getting 0 VDC from the battery. 

 

Now, whether or not there are other issues going on, I will perform your leakage current test Grum and make sure I don't have a parasitic drain or a short.  

 

JZH thanks for the info about my RR! I thought I had read that that was the updated variant, nice to verify that. 

 

I ordered a new battery, it'll be here Monday, I believe, so I will test my leakage and try and test my RR before putting the new battery in. Hopefully it is as simple as an internal failure of the battery plates/internal connection. 

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Well that is good news, appears your cheap and nasty battery is open circuit.

 

What brand of battery is it that has failed?

 

I'm sure you can just fit your new battery hook up the R/R and ride away. 

Just make sure you check the charging  voltage both at idle and 5000rpm.

Lets know how you get on.

Good luck.

Cheers.

 

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Also, get rid of that battery ASAP - if there is damage inside, and it shorts internally, it will turn into a ball of molten lead. If it had enough amps to start your bike it can still perform a suicide mission in your bike or even in your garage.

 

My two cents:>>> Buy a Yuasa or other quality battery, I know they are more, but a fire under your arse while riding or a burnt down garage are not worth the $50 savings of a cheap Amazon/China made battery.

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It was a "Mighty Max" brand battery that did the big sad - again, a $27 on Amazon battery. It's out of the bike and sitting about 10 feet away from anything flammable or of value. 

 

I bought an AGM battery from Rocky Mountain ATV/MC (can't remember the brand off hand, was similarly priced to the Yuasa) since they are local to me and if I can support a local company, I always try.  It should be here tomorrow, hopefully I can go for a ride! 

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8 hours ago, RC1237V said:

 

My two cents:>>> Buy a Yuasa or other quality battery, I know they are more, but a fire under your arse while riding or a burnt down garage are not worth the $50 savings of a cheap Amazon/China made battery.

 

^^^ This

 

Plus, with a quality battery you have a lot more confidence that when you push the button with the right thumb that it's going to start.  To me that's worth way the hell more than $50 when I'm literally in the middle of nowhere and there's probably no place within 50 to 100 miles to even obtain a powersports battery. 

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