Member Contributer Grum Posted January 5, 2021 Member Contributer Share Posted January 5, 2021 13 minutes ago, DannoXYZ said: Start-switch is still used to turn off relays (therefore headlights) when you start bike. Then starter-switch powers dimmer switch to flip lights between dip & high-beam relays. I could not find switch anywhere that turns off headlights completely. Ah No Sir. Drawing is tricky to see. The three switches at the top are Kill Switch, Starter Switch and the double pole Lighting Switch. As JZH mentioned the Starter does not inhibit the lights when pressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer DannoXYZ Posted January 5, 2021 Member Contributer Share Posted January 5, 2021 Ah, I see thanks. I saw double-poles on lighting-switch and thought it was linked-action with start-button. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Grum Posted January 5, 2021 Member Contributer Share Posted January 5, 2021 6 minutes ago, DannoXYZ said: Ah, I see thanks. I saw double-poles on lighting-switch and thought it was linked-action with start-button. No worries. Yet again another great job on highlighting the main drawing Danno. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer DannoXYZ Posted January 5, 2021 Member Contributer Share Posted January 5, 2021 Why thank you! Matt, here's pin-outs of H4 bulb-socket. Since you may have different colours on yours that doesn't match diagram. Does both your bulb-sockets have same colour wires? What are colours for each wire on your sockets? TEST1: measure resistance to chassis-earth of ground-terminal on each socket. Ohms = ? TEST2: key ON, lighting-switch ON, dimmer-switch HIGH, measure voltage on HIGH-beam terminal on each socket. Voltage = ? TEST3: key ON, lighting-switch ON, dimmer-switch DIP, measure voltage on LOW-beam terminal on each socket. Voltage = ? Depending upon results above, I think we might need to trace wires on your harness to see where they go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AutomotoMatt Posted January 5, 2021 Author Share Posted January 5, 2021 I've been with the bike this morning trying to work a few things out, including the tests above. Here's what I've found: Test 1: Zero Ohms Test 2: 11.42V Test 3: 11.23V (if I partially insert a bulb and measure I have zero) Based on the above diagram, my bulb connectors have blue for high beam, yellow for low beam and red for ground. These are then connected to the loom as follows: Blue - Blue Yellow - Brown Red - Green I still don't think any of the drawings are the right one as the brown wire doesn't seem to be on them? I also have some odd connections at the relay. black, brown, white and green/yellow. Tracing the white wire that goes to the loom connection for the left handlebar which doesn't seem right? Is the dip feed interupted by the main beam switch when switched to high? Swapping relays didn't work (known high beam relay in place of dip beam) but my dip beam relay doesn't have the original connector so I'm now noot sure it was connected correctly before - I have just copied it when I took the old one off. Measuring which wire has power when has just got me confused, especially as it doesn't seem to match a wiring diagram Its clear now that the bike has had some changes made to the wiring in its life but this was all working so I'm not sure what can have gone wrong. Any ideas what I should try now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AutomotoMatt Posted January 5, 2021 Author Share Posted January 5, 2021 Fixed!!! Sort of.... While tracing things the dip beam flashed and I traced it to some extra connectors in the loom behind the main beam relay. I stripped all the extra electrical tape off and found a black and green/yellow wire connected into the black/red and green wires for the relay then going over to the dip relay. They are the sort of connectors that cut through the insulation to make a connection and when you squeeze the black/red one the light works. I’ve attached a pic so hopefully that works i will replace those connectors with something more solid and do a better job of tidied everything up then I should be good! Im bit sure if I should start another thread on this (probably) but where is best to pull power for a 12v/usb socket? Thought it would be good to sort that while I’m up to my eyes in wires!! thanks matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Dutchy Posted January 5, 2021 Member Contributer Share Posted January 5, 2021 Yeah them "Scotchloks" are abysmal...... Either solder/crimp or Posi-Loc I'd say... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AutomotoMatt Posted January 5, 2021 Author Share Posted January 5, 2021 All done and sorted. I used crimp connectors on those joints and it’s all good. I got new bulb connectors as one was damaged and fitted connectors so they’re easier to replace should I have an issue again my handiwork on the right with the old one on the left before I redid that too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer DannoXYZ Posted January 5, 2021 Member Contributer Share Posted January 5, 2021 On 1/5/2021 at 6:32 AM, AutomotoMatt said: Fixed!!! Sort of.... While tracing things the dip beam flashed and I traced it to some extra connectors in the loom behind the main beam relay. I stripped all the extra electrical tape off and found a black and green/yellow wire connected into the black/red and green wires for the relay then going over to the dip relay. They are the sort of connectors that cut through the insulation to make a connection and when you squeeze the black/red one the light works. I’ve attached a pic so hopefully that works i will replace those connectors with something more solid and do a better job of tidied everything up then I should be good! Im bit sure if I should start another thread on this (probably) but where is best to pull power for a 12v/usb socket? Thought it would be good to sort that while I’m up to my eyes in wires!! thanks matt Whoops, your post beat mine. Never ever use crimp connectors for any kind of power application. There's just not enough contact surface-area. A wiring joint should have following: mechanical strength - wire knot is best, or crimp for laziness/convenienceelectrical conductivity - solder, nothing beats real lead/tin solder. Also adds to mechanical strength of jointweather-proofing - solder seals wire-end gaps from moisture creeping in between. Adhesive shrink-wrap adds to that protection and prevents black/green wire disease To fix with 50-year lifespan: 1. remove crimp-connectors 2. slide section of adhesive heatshrink-wrap over harness wire-end 3. use lineman/western-union splice to join wire-ends 4. solder 5. adhesive heatshrink-wrap. It's done this way in pro-motorsports, military and aerospace for performance, reliability and durability (crimp-connectors forbidden). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer DannoXYZ Posted January 5, 2021 Member Contributer Share Posted January 5, 2021 1 hour ago, AutomotoMatt said: All done and sorted. I used crimp connectors on those joints and it’s all good. I got new bulb connectors as one was damaged and fitted connectors so they’re easier to replace should I have an issue again my handiwork on the right with the old one on the left before I redid that too Good job! We'll see how long that lasts, eh? Looks like PO replaced H4 headlight socket and added that white connector. You've got a splice, connector, and another splice within just 15cm!!! If this starts acting up again, remove downstream splice and connector completely. Then you've only got one splice in that area to worry about. Eggs to apples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer DannoXYZ Posted January 5, 2021 Member Contributer Share Posted January 5, 2021 8 hours ago, AutomotoMatt said: Im bit sure if I should start another thread on this (probably) but where is best to pull power for a 12v/usb socket? Thought it would be good to sort that while I’m up to my eyes in wires!! In that area, you can tap into Bl/R power-feed line to headlight relays. It's powered ON anytime key-switch is ON. Anywhere between T-junction after fuse-box to headlight-relays should work. That way, you don't have to worry about adding fuse to 12v USB socket since you'll be piggybacking on headlight fuse. Use proper wire-knot, soldering and heatshrink-wrapping. There never seems to be enough time to do it right first time around, but there's always time to do it again! Often on side of road in total darkness and rain! To seal T-joint: 1. slide adhesive heat-shrink wrap section onto new wire of T 2. tie wires and solder 3. use electrical tape starting at new T wire, wrap in figure-8 around T-joint, and end at new T-wire next to beginning end 4. slide adhesive heat-shrink wrap down over ends of electrical tape and shrink Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer JZH Posted January 6, 2021 Member Contributer Share Posted January 6, 2021 23 hours ago, DannoXYZ said: Never ever use crimp connectors for any kind of power application. There's just not enough contact surface-area. A wiring joint should have following: mechanical strength - wire knot is best, or crimp for laziness/convenienceelectrical conductivity - solder, nothing beats real lead/tin solder. Also adds to mechanical strength of jointweather-proofing - solder seals wire-end gaps from moisture creeping in between. Adhesive shrink-wrap adds to that protection and prevents black/green wire disease To fix with 50-year lifespan: 1. remove crimp-connectors 2. slide section of adhesive heatshrink-wrap over harness wire-end 3. use lineman/western-union splice to join wire-ends 4. solder 5. adhesive heatshrink-wrap. It's done this way in pro-motorsports, military and aerospace for performance, reliability and durability (crimp-connectors forbidden). Nobody uses solid-core wire in automotive applications. Ciao, JZH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer DannoXYZ Posted January 6, 2021 Member Contributer Share Posted January 6, 2021 Yup, that was just demo of lineman/western-union splice. Technique should be used for stranded-wire splices as well. Stranded gives you more knot-tying options. Here's wiring-manual I use. Following that as guide, I've never ever had any wiring issues. Certainly not the frustration and waste of time the OP faced in this case because someone got lazy. Planes have fallen out of sky because of shoddy wiring workmanship. If it can be done better, I do it. None of my Porsche headlight and battery wiring-harnesses with 50-year warranty has been returned, going on 25-years now. They actually come up occasionally on eBay and sells for close to double what I offered them for. People will actually uninstall it to carry over to new cars. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer RC1237V Posted January 7, 2021 Member Contributer Share Posted January 7, 2021 Yeah those crappy wire-taps are the cause of electrical issues almost every time they are used. Thanks for the tips Danno, looks like I have to up my game on my wiring. I use the highest quality crimp connectors I can find, and use the double crimping/swaging tool that does the wire and sheathing crimps at the same time. Then I follow up with at least one layer of marine grade heat-shrink with adhesive. Looks like I need to add solder to the equation as well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AutomotoMatt Posted January 11, 2021 Author Share Posted January 11, 2021 Thanks for all the tips. I'll see if I have any issues once I can start to use the bike again (hovering around zero here at the moment so I'm just using the car instead) and I'll solder any joints I do in the future. I used the connector to eliminate the splices - the heat shrink isn't covering another splice, it's just holding wires together. I used two crimp connectors and the two white connectors, that is all. I'm going to order a nice USB/12v socket to add where Danno has explained - thanks! Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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